GM to pay up to $200M to help end American Axle strike

[Kenmore]

proud member wrote:

i work(ed)at the forge, imade 91,000 last yr. its gonna be tough!!!!!!!

Not if your skills are marketable.

[Chip]

Kenmore wrote:

<quoted text>
Not if your skills are marketable.

I doubt it, last time I checked nobody was going to pay that kind of $ to sit around and push buttons, gee still can't figure out why their jobs are going to Mexico.

[Seenitbefore]

A while back there was someone on one of these union bashing boards, bashing unions and their members making $25.00 per hour. This person said they made the same money and comparative if not equal benefits, I don't remember which, at a non-union shop. Saying they were making that kind of money where he worked because they made themselves worth it to the company and the boss figured they were worth it.

It's interesting that no one said this non-union person was overpaid for the type of work they did. No one telling him he was making over the prevailing wage and just weren't worth that much.

A "prevailing" wage for a type of work is a prevailing wage. It shouldn't then make a difference who and under what circumstances they are making it. If John W. Public is making $25.00 per in a union shop and isn't worth that based on the "prevailing" wage, while George H. Public is making the same over the "prevailing" wage at a non-union shop, they are BOTH overpaid according to the "prevailing" wage.

All this bally-hooing is nothing less than union busting...for whatever reason(s) each particular person believes they have the right to bust the unions.

Anyone that keeps trashing anyone because they are making $xx.xx per hour and they aren't worth that because it exceeds "the prevailing wage" must have a communist mindset...to believe no one is worth more than "the prevailing wage".

[pro union]

JIMMYK wrote:

<quoted text>
You have confirmed that $12/ hour is the going wage for unskilled production work.

Wrong.
$12/hr is not the "going" wage for unskilled production work. The can make $12/hour at grocery stores or fast food joints.
Typical neotard BS. Try to spin and twist words when the facts aren't in their favor.
Those jobs are worth more than $12 an hour and that's why the workers aren't accepting $12. Very simple.

[Seenitbefore]

Rob wrote:

<quoted text>well if these were hard working people I would understand however I personally have toured some of these "hardworking union plants" and I really cringe at the thought of these being hardworking people.First off running a machine that does the job is not "hard" work monitering some machine that gun drills axle flanges is not that hard beleive me I have done it.So think abotu who you are talking abotu when you use the term "Hard working".

At the same time I have seen many an executive just sitting, or joking around with someone in their office suite, eating 2 & 3 hour lunches in the fanciest restaurant etc. Oh, I forgot the put practicing in their suite and even on the golf course during office hours. That makes them worth what they get paid?

[Tim]

pro union wrote:

<quoted text>
Wrong.
$12/hr is not the "going" wage for unskilled production work. The can make $12/hour at grocery stores or fast food joints.
Typical neotard BS. Try to spin and twist words when the facts aren't in their favor.
Those jobs are worth more than $12 an hour and that's why the workers aren't accepting $12. Very simple.

Fast food and making $12 an hour??? Right! Only one making that is the manager. You phony. You have no idea what the fast food people make. You priced yourselves out of the market. And think fast food workers make $12 per hour. You just show how much you know and how much your union screwed the whole country by brainwashing you thinking you did not make enough because the fast food people are making $12 and hour.

[North Park]

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
At the same time I have seen many an executive just sitting, or joking around with someone in their office suite, eating 2 & 3 hour lunches in the fanciest restaurant etc. Oh, I forgot the put practicing in their suite and even on the golf course during office hours. That makes them worth what they get paid?

Well if nobodys working i guess I know why the place is closing down! Why work for a stiff that doesnt want to work? Or are you just embellishing a little? Officers going to the fanciest restaurant? Do you feel kinda fruity using the word fancy? haha

[irate]

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
At the same time I have seen many an executive just sitting, or joking around with someone in their office suite, eating 2 & 3 hour lunches in the fanciest restaurant etc. Oh, I forgot the put practicing in their suite and even on the golf course during office hours. That makes them worth what they get paid?

I agree execs make too much money however a "skilled" laborer (pushing buttons is not a skill)should not be making 20 some dollars an hour and get full benefits so before you call me an exec you better realize that I am a working stiff just like the rest of you and before you ask I am a SKILLED diesel mechanic.

[Seenitbefore]

North Park wrote:

<quoted text>
Well if nobodys working i guess I know why the place is closing down! Why work for a stiff that doesnt want to work? Or are you just embellishing a little? Officers going to the fanciest restaurant? Do you feel kinda fruity using the word fancy? haha

Oh yeth. I love fancy restaurants.

No I'm not embellishing. Ask those that do and they will tell you they are working. They are making business contacts, sealing deals, trying to forge customers bases. Basically networking for the benefit of the business. Truth is more business is done on "the buddy system" than any other way. By forging relationships,etc. When one of our new Presidents came into office he was irate that the salesmen made more than his salary...they averaged 3M per, back in the 80s... So what he did was cut there commissions and base salaries. That didn't go over real well so in just a few months those salesmen quite and went to the competition who were happy to have these top sales people. The company business dropped by 45% in a matter of months because the customers for our product followed the salesmen and not the company. Like I said, more business is done based on relationships than any other area.

[North Park]

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh yeth. I love fancy restaurants.
No I'm not embellishing. Ask those that do and they will tell you they are working. They are making business contacts, sealing deals, trying to forge customers bases. Basically networking for the benefit of the business. Truth is more business is done on "the buddy system" than any other way. By forging relationships,etc. When one of our new Presidents came into office he was irate that the salesmen made more than his salary...they averaged 3M per, back in the 80s... So what he did was cut there commissions and base salaries. That didn't go over real well so in just a few months those salesmen quite and went to the competition who were happy to have these top sales people. The company business dropped by 45% in a matter of months because the customers for our product followed the salesmen and not the company. Like I said, more business is done based on relationships than any other area.

Its hard to work for someone you dont trust, absolutely. These guys arent making the deals they need to make, costs end up going up becasue of the lack of barganing..makes some sense. I hope all these guys start collecting some kinda paycheck sooner than later, for the sake of your kids!

[Union All The Way]

Rob wrote:

<quoted text>well if these were hard working people I would understand however I personally have toured some of these "hardworking union plants" and I really cringe at the thought of these being hardworking people.First off running a machine that does the job is not "hard" work monitering some machine that gun drills axle flanges is not that hard beleive me I have done it.So think abotu who you are talking abotu when you use the term "Hard working".

Personally toured the bathroom...trying to find crabs for a seafood dinner...I cringe at the Evil man...always right....mind over matter..I don't mind that you don't matter..HEHEHEHE..Change your name to hard working ROB..the golden one...evil man..where's mini me?

[Seenitbefore]

North Park wrote:

<quoted text>
Its hard to work for someone you dont trust, absolutely. These guys arent making the deals they need to make, costs end up going up becasue of the lack of barganing..makes some sense. I hope all these guys start collecting some kinda paycheck sooner than later, for the sake of your kids!

I agree and hope some kind of a deal needs to be come to. It's not helpful to anyone.

I do understand though. Like I've said, the information I have is they aren't trying for any increases. They just don't want to have to lose anything. The working people can't afford the reductions like the CEOs could...yet they don't experience decreases.

I thank Chip for that AAM income/loss statement. I got a really good picture that I believe AAM is trying to recoup their losses from 2006 now that the contract is up for negotiation.

I wouldn't even doubt that the CEO of AAM might have an alternative motive in this to force GM to be a bit more lucrative toward AAM because GM can't really afford the loss of parts. Though the strikes at GM has had a dampening affect on that. From experience I believe there's a bit of a chess game going on here with only the top players knowing how they want to win the game.

[Chip]

Sure I bet that AAM is just trying to get rid of a one year loss, or maybe the investors are sick of not making squat on thier investment while the very people their $ employ are making twice the wages of people in similar positions. Face it $28 an hour for a job that takes a few weeks of training is crazy, and things that are to good to be true don't last forever.

[Union All The Way]

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree and hope some kind of a deal needs to be come to. It's not helpful to anyone.
I do understand though. Like I've said, the information I have is they aren't trying for any increases. They just don't want to have to lose anything. The working people can't afford the reductions like the CEOs could...yet they don't experience decreases.
I thank Chip for that AAM income/loss statement. I got a really good picture that I believe AAM is trying to recoup their losses from 2006 now that the contract is up for negotiation.
I wouldn't even doubt that the CEO of AAM might have an alternative motive in this to force GM to be a bit more lucrative toward AAM because GM can't really afford the loss of parts. Though the strikes at GM has had a dampening affect on that. From experience I believe there's a bit of a chess game going on here with only the top players knowing how they want to win the game.

I will tell you this which should surprise a few..What was once GM...in a round about way still is..wow..what a shock. It's all about money..remember years ago.. Delphi & GM plan was to "spin off" Delphi from GM so "both" could be more profitable...damnnn..I love it when a plan comes together..Delphi broke..GM giving $$$ to fix the wound..ohohohohohohhoo.. it hurts...management at it's best!!!How can we save money???..DUH...I'm a hourly worker who is overpaid and butt assss stupid..but ..when I see a bright light in the tunnel...it's a train and get out the way bubba...
Life ain't perfect..deal with it..

[proud member]

some of you have no-clue on what your talking about!gm is not selling trucks!!!!!next forecast is alot worse minus another 144,000 truck.aam does not and will not need these forgings.its not the uaws fault. gas 4.00 gal. does"nt help!

[Seenitbefore]

Let's see here; I've invested in a company and they've hired someone paying them millions to make that company profitable so when it's not just reduce the incomes of those who aren't managing the company. Eyup, sounds like normal elitist dribble. Left up to me the CEO would be leaving skin marks on the pavement from his butt.

[Taxpayer]

JOHN WAYNE-RANDOLPH SCOTT wrote:

Wait them out on the picket line. 11wks they should be about ready to cave. Break the Union and then go after Management Bonuses.

I hope your job goes to China and you go with it.

[greddy]

taxpayer your another die hard republican! g.w.bush is the best pres. of all time? how was jenna wedding?next time you go to wal-mart get me some underware! you never have anything good to say.i know why, you live in the biggest arm-pit city in the world!

[Chip]

Seenitbefore wrote:

Let's see here; I've invested in a company and they've hired someone paying them millions to make that company profitable so when it's not just reduce the incomes of those who aren't managing the company. Eyup, sounds like normal elitist dribble. Left up to me the CEO would be leaving skin marks on the pavement from his butt.

Simple pay based on market demand, funny how most of the shareholders see the value, left up to you everyone would be out of a job in weeks.

[uaw proud]

chip and everyone,it does not matter(pay)everything (all production) will be done overseas! 10.50 is still too much. mexico is 3.00 a day plus two meals,plus a ride to work.