GM to pay up to $200M to help end American Axle strike

[becky]

James from KT wrote:

The liberals are crying and whining about capitalism.
The way the company was running before was SOCIALISM.
Free this and free that.$28 bucks an hour to put a screw on a nut.
$17 and hour would be a dream from most people in Buffalo.
The CEO gets paid big bucks. Whoopee do. That's the America dream. Become a CEO the and shut your yap.
You liberals whine about big day days but you want one too. You then raise the taxes on all of those workers to pay for crack head porch monkies.
You liberals are MORONS!

Hey, I'm fairly liberal, and a democrat now, and I think the unions have outlived their original purpose. I also agree with previous posters that they need to accept that the gravy train is over or the jobs will be gone.

[becky]

Chip wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know how you can make an argument on a per model basis, when we are talking about the difference between manufactures you have to go by manufacture average quality. safercar.gov only has safety ratings and recall's. Safety ratings are not a measure of quality, you could build the safest car in the world and if it broke down every day it would still be considered poor quality. Recall's don't seem to measure quality either, if one company recalls an auto, another company may not do a recall for a similar problem, both autos had problems and only one was recalled, does that mean the one recalled was poor quality and the one that was not recalled was good quality? I know of several problems with my GMC that the mechanic would tell me that its an extremely common thing to go wrong and nearly every truck like mine has the same problem, then he showed me a pile in his shop of broken parts identical to the part replaced, yet there was no recall, that just meant that GMC knew there was a problem and didn't want to spend the money recalling it and decided to stick their customer with the bill, so they could afford to stay in business and pay the inflated union wages.

EXACTLY!
We did try to buy an American car, once, and all we had was trouble with the dumb thing. We work hard for our money, and it is irresponsible to buy an inferior car (which gets worse gas millage, as well). My husband and I worked hard and took out loans to go to college so we could find higher paying, meaningful jobs. I'm tired of the "union" mentality: buy American, even if it'll probably break down on you, costs more, and isn't very energy efficient.

[Seenitbefore]

Chip wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe because a 1/4 inch gap is a little overboard. If I told you that my feet were 50 inches long and I was 7 foot tall would you believe me. I mean 7 foot tall is possible, but the fact that I said my feet were 50 inches long would cause you to wonder if I was just lying all together. I left my comment open ended and said I assume, not I know you are lying.

My point isn't that the 1/4" statement wasn't overboard. Maybe he's exaggerating, which none of the rest of us ever do of course, and maybe it was an outlandish over statement. My point is because of that NOTHING else he said or ever said could be true? We are all in a world of trouble then. Because of course nobody else ever does that.

I had the notion this was a board about opinions and debate. Not a court proceeding.

[Seenitbefore]

becky wrote:

<quoted text>
EXACTLY!
We did try to buy an American car, once, and all we had was trouble with the dumb thing. We work hard for our money, and it is irresponsible to buy an inferior car (which gets worse gas millage, as well). My husband and I worked hard and took out loans to go to college so we could find higher paying, meaningful jobs. I'm tired of the "union" mentality: buy American, even if it'll probably break down on you, costs more, and isn't very energy efficient.

In 1992 I bought my first, and last, brand new car. With 1,500 miles on it and 800+ miles away from home I could feel the transmission failing. It did get us home and the service manager and I had a 45 minute discussion on what was going to be done about it. Why I won't get into detail on. Finally he said they would authorize a complete after market upgrade and warranty it for three years.

First off the problem was a (transmission) design flaw. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with the union workers. It had to do with company management requirements for the final assembly. People really need to get informed before they start throwing stones at the wrong people. Because a vehicle is a lemon does not have to mean it was the workers fault. Usually those who complain the loudest about this stuff have no clue about who is responsible for what. Like I said before if you're driving down the road and the fender falls off, or the wheels fall off, or the engine falls apart then you can look to the workers. EVERYTHING else is managements decision(s) on how the vehicle will be built.

Management makes ALL the decisions on how the vehicle is built, what it's built from and where the parts for it are built. Cheaply produce parts and the car no workie = MANAGEMENT.

[tbird19482]

Chip wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know how you can make an argument on a per model basis, when we are talking about the difference between manufactures you have to go by manufacture average quality. safercar.gov only has safety ratings and recall's. Safety ratings are not a measure of quality, you could build the safest car in the world and if it broke down every day it would still be considered poor quality. Recall's don't seem to measure quality either, if one company recalls an auto, another company may not do a recall for a similar problem, both autos had problems and only one was recalled, does that mean the one recalled was poor quality and the one that was not recalled was good quality? I know of several problems with my GMC that the mechanic would tell me that its an extremely common thing to go wrong and nearly every truck like mine has the same problem, then he showed me a pile in his shop of broken parts identical to the part replaced, yet there was no recall, that just meant that GMC knew there was a problem and didn't want to spend the money recalling it and decided to stick their customer with the bill, so they could afford to stay in business and pay the inflated union wages.

Bimbo YOU were the on that brought up the 4 star ratings NOT ME so I showed you that there are many AM [ FORDS AND G.M. cars that not only had 4 stars but 5 stars/ I said that on the J.D.powers recall list there were only like 2 A.M. brands and that V.W. was #1 toyota #2 jeep and chry. were the only { old big 3 ] AM co. on the list / and after 38 years in a stamping plant I know what to look for when it comes it fit and tinm. and IF you would look at the car infront of you you will see trunk lids not rite bumpers off they ALL have them / and that the so called BEST car in the wourld made 2million cars in2005 2 million in 2006 and 1 million as of jan 2007 and had 9.5.million recalls and 85 MILLION service bull. for the same time / yes you and others are YELLING that FORD had 500,000 recalls my ? to you what was the time period? 1 yr ? 2? 5? and how many were made ? I know it was NOT almost 2 recalls per vec. and like 15 to 17 service Bul. per car'

[tbird19482]

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
In 1992 I bought my first, and last, brand new car. With 1,500 miles on it and 800+ miles away from home I could feel the transmission failing. It did get us home and the service manager and I had a 45 minute discussion on what was going to be done about it. Why I won't get into detail on. Finally he said they would authorize a complete after market upgrade and warranty it for three years.
First off the problem was a (transmission) design flaw. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with the union workers. It had to do with company management requirements for the final assembly. People really need to get informed before they start throwing stones at the wrong people. Because a vehicle is a lemon does not have to mean it was the workers fault. Usually those who complain the loudest about this stuff have no clue about who is responsible for what. Like I said before if you're driving down the road and the fender falls off, or the wheels fall off, or the engine falls apart then you can look to the workers. EVERYTHING else is managements decision(s) on how the vehicle will be built.
Management makes ALL the decisions on how the vehicle is built, what it's built from and where the parts for it are built. Cheaply produce parts and the car no workie = MANAGEMENT.

I CAN nOT tell you how many times I have been told " RUN IT" we need the #'s even if the union person on the line kept telling the management the parts were bad they would tell you " run it or get time off" so don't blame the union for everything alot of times we tryed to make a good prouduct but mang. told us run it or else.

[Union All The Way]

tbird19482 wrote:

<quoted text> I CAN nOT tell you how many times I have been told " RUN IT" we need the #'s even if the union person on the line kept telling the management the parts were bad they would tell you " run it or get time off" so don't blame the union for everything alot of times we tryed to make a good prouduct but mang. told us run it or else.

I've heard that before...

[Union All The Way]

becky wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey, I'm fairly liberal, and a democrat now, and I think the unions have outlived their original purpose. I also agree with previous posters that they need to accept that the gravy train is over or the jobs will be gone.

The only ones that benefit from world trade is the government and big business. So many companies farm out their work overseas to virtual slave labor, which is big businesses dream. Americans cannot possibly pare down their life to compete with third world countries, and should not be expected to as long as there are others who feel that they deserve a better lifestyle then those they employ. The loss of jobs due to downsizing in larger companies is now effecting other jobs for those of middle class or below. The people we have elected to represent us must be made to realize that the destruction of America from within will not be tolerated. If it were not for the unions, we would all be slave labor, working for the priviledge to live another day to work ourselves into an early grave, easily replaced by our masters. Everyone has the supposed right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but only the rich can really live this dream. People, where is your passion?? I am disgusted that so few take an interest in the welfare of our nation and there are so many regulations in place to protect any decision that our elected officials make whether it is in our best interest or not.

[Tourists Wanted]

The tentative contract is good news, the forges will be closed and no one will have to work in 130 degree heat anymore.

[Seenitbefore]

Tourists Wanted wrote:

The tentative contract is good news, the forges will be closed and no one will have to work in 130 degree heat anymore.

And notice that the forges will be closed even if the contract is ratified. It'll just give the company that much more money to move the operations out-of-country.

As far as I'm concerned the companies that have moved out of country should have their U.S. Articles of Incorporation revoked and all the proprerty(ies) they have vacated to blight the neighborhoods be confiscated and GIVEN free of lease to anyone who would start and/or expand a business and keep it there. There are a lot of startups that would flourish if their facilities were "affordable".

[tbird19482]

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
And notice that the forges will be closed even if the contract is ratified. It'll just give the company that much more money to move the operations out-of-country.
As far as I'm concerned the companies that have moved out of country should have their U.S. Articles of Incorporation revoked and all the proprerty(ies) they have vacated to blight the neighborhoods be confiscated and GIVEN free of lease to anyone who would start and/or expand a business and keep it there. There are a lot of startups that would flourish if their facilities were "affordable".

Well one good thing All the forges will be in the third wourld countries and the AM. people won't be dying from all the poisonous gases and smoke and stuff from the forging pro.[ at least we will have healther americans ] and the Chineese will be the ones getting the cancers

[tbird19482]

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
And notice that the forges will be closed even if the contract is ratified. It'll just give the company that much more money to move the operations out-of-country.
As far as I'm concerned the companies that have moved out of country should have their U.S. Articles of Incorporation revoked and all the proprerty(ies) they have vacated to blight the neighborhoods be confiscated and GIVEN free of lease to anyone who would start and/or expand a business and keep it there. There are a lot of startups that would flourish if their facilities were "affordable".

P.S. and as we did rite befor WW2 we had no Industry to speek of and AFTER JAPAN BOMBED PEARL it took us soon time to get things Back up to speed . but at least back then we still had some mills and factorys to get things going IF anything like that happened now the only hope we have is our nuck's/ we could never get our steel mills running or change our auto co. over to war prouduction in time to wage a convent. war. it will have to be all or nothing.

[Tourists Wanted]

Seenitbefore wrote:

<quoted text>
And notice that the forges will be closed even if the contract is ratified. It'll just give the company that much more money to move the operations out-of-country.
As far as I'm concerned the companies that have moved out of country should have their U.S. Articles of Incorporation revoked and all the proprerty(ies) they have vacated to blight the neighborhoods be confiscated and GIVEN free of lease to anyone who would start and/or expand a business and keep it there. There are a lot of startups that would flourish if their facilities were "affordable".

I'm confident that these brownfield sites will be populated by other Tier 1 suppliers.

[fastedrose]

Pray for the American axle workers right now in real time as this post. Tomorrow or later today election results will be recorded into history.

[fastedrose]

I will share a story.

Sometimes the emotion of this site animates me, lol.

Never ever deal with child porn. hmm take picture of your childs first good pee, landmark moment to mom and dad, can get you arrested and thrown into prison for one or two decades, say my wife took the picture, and then you may wonder why? They like to take picture of little guy peeing. My Question? Is this crime? No, steel the picture and,... the supreme court ruled on,

[North Park]

Hey good news about that plant in Niagara Falls opening up! I dont know about any union but its something!

[Seenitbefore]

tbird19482 wrote:

<quoted text> P.S. and as we did rite befor WW2 we had no Industry to speek of and AFTER JAPAN BOMBED PEARL it took us soon time to get things Back up to speed . but at least back then we still had some mills and factorys to get things going IF anything like that happened now the only hope we have is our nuck's/ we could never get our steel mills running or change our auto co. over to war produduction in time to wage a convent. war. it will have to be all or nothing.

And during WWII, at the suggestion of Sen. Harry Truman to Roosevelt, any company making a profit off the war materials they were producing the managers were prosecuted and jailed.

Look at the profits being raked in by companies during this Iraq war/occupation.

[Cowherder]

lori wrote:

<quoted text> I would work for $12.$12 pays a lot more bills than $8. That would be a nice 2nd job for my husband to pick up.

Its fine and dandy to start out making $12.00 an hour just starting out in life, but to cut a seniored worker's pay to that much after they have established a lifestyle of working 25 to 30+ years in a company and being 50+ years old is sinful what the comapny is doing! You don't pull the rug from under someone that has been a loyal employee for that many years.

[Cowherder]

THE MAN wrote:

<quoted text>
most people DON'T have a CLUE do they.

No, the people bashing union workers know nothing about working in factories and how hard the work actually is. Many of the people bashing union workers wouldn't even make it through one day on the job!!
When auto companies hire new employees the majority of the new workers don't last through a month.(Yeah, the work must be that easy that so many quit.)

[Cowherder]

tbird19482 wrote:

<quoted text> MR. UNAMERICAN AUTO CO.JUST take some time and GO to the J.D.Powers web site and you will get an education on who is the real Quality auto . and who has the really good advertizing co. its there and maybe if you would take time you would find out that most U.S,Based Co.'s out do THE #2 selling co in the world [ toyota ]in Quality and only CHRYSLER has any cars on the top ten J.D.Powers recall list/ and as for the service notices Toyota has 20 for the camery for 2007 / 16 for2008/ " BEST BUILT AUTO IN THE WOURLD " I don't even have to look this stuff up on the computer I can drive up behind A honda / toyota / you name it [ and AM cars too ] have worked in a stamping plant for over 38 years can tell what GOOD FIT and TRIM are and in the last 2 years toyota /honda / ECT, are in the same mind set the AM> CO's were in the 70's and if you would take time and look you would see the doors don't fit / the trunk lid is off [ out bourd dents ' you don't get them from other people's doors there from dirt on the die that made the part ] start looking and you will see the diff. in the Qual' and IF YOU CAN'T see it you are blind and then all you have to do is run your hand over the 1/4 panel and down the seams and you WILL feel the differance/ DON't think so ? next time you pull up behind a car start LOOKING and pay att. and you will start to see AND then maybe you will see that the A.M. CARS are as good as all the rest. And if you need a lesson on how to tell fit and trim let me KNOW I will be happy to show you how a trunk lid should fit, it should not be 1/4 inch at the top and 1/2 inch at the bottom [ at laest around west. New York, the toyotas are so out of wack I can not beleive people can't see how bad there put together.] All I am saying is LOOK and you WILL see the differance UNION or non union they all can screw up and put out junk they all do face it / all I am asking you union bashers to do is look at the AMERICAN cars [ FORD ? G.M.] and DRIVE them and once you do [ look at the fit and trim ] you will be amazed as I have said look at the J.D.POWERS list ONLY Chrysler had any AM. Name s on that list ] the AM> cars were on the top ten list for the BEST buys look it up it's there, IF you can take some of your time and give the American worker HIS chance to prove that we can build a car that is as GOOD as any you will see we are as good as any / thank you for your time .

I appreciate your comments about American made cars!They are not inferior in workmanship as many people would like to believe.
My husband and I have noticed many flaws when
driving behind a Toyota or a Honda vehicle. We have noticed huge gaps where some parts come together and things that aren't straight.
Americans that support these foreign vehicles have been brainwashed from the media to believe that Asian vehicles are made better. Toyota has had many recalls with their vehicles the last few years but that isn't front page news,many times we don't hear about it for some odd reason (perhaps, someone is being paid off) to bash American auto companies. Americans do produce excellent vehicles..........at least, buying American the money stays here in this country and supports our economy!!