United, US Airways fly closer to merger

[Robbin Marks]

SCABS!

[Steve]

I did quit and it was one of the best decisions of my life.United is a sinking ship.

Northside wrote:

If those of you who are employees are so unhappy, please quit and spare those of us in the flying public from your poor attitudes. Two bad airlines full of surly employees joined together is not a winning recipe.

[npog99]

Still NWA Soon Delta wrote:

<quoted text>
The difference is that Non Union employees don't get dues sucked out of them every month to benefit the greedy leaders

Is $40 a month really "sucking your blood"? It is a minimum due we all pay in order for a company not to walk all over us.

Generations of hard working people have paid those same dues, and have fought for whatever it is that you are enjoying today.

Pay your dues!

[npog99]

usair preferred wrote:

I will admit there was a time in our country that unions were extremely needed and all US workers (union and non-union) have pretty good pay and benefits because of the work they did. The difference is that today the union (or to be more specific, the union leaders) are corrupt and doing nothing to better serve their members. I hope you realize only 6-8% of US workers are members of a union...so, if they do so much for workers and the country, why aren't there more union members? I find it interesting that two of the major US industries (minus the oil industries...and they are screwing all of us) having incredible financial difficult times right now have a majority of their workforce as unions (automobile and airlines). The deal is that its like trying to change a democrat to a republican or vise versa or someone's religious affiliation...what you know and grew up with through your family generations is what you are going to think is right and the best. So, with that, i know I won't change the minds of union members nor will they change the minds of non union members. All i would ask is that the union members take a good look at their union's financial statement and truly asses if the dues you are paying are helping you or the union leaders. In the end, if the employees and the company are doing well, who really cares if your union or non-union...unfortunately, in my opinon, the companies with a large union workforce have neither the company nor the employees doing well today and both are at risk.

First, Unions are not disappearing, really. They have lost power because of decisions like considering a strike "illegal". But I am not going into politics. More and more workers are realizing that, today, they need a union if they don't want to be stepped all over. Unfortunately, businesses have the money (and power) to discredit unions, and make people think that all unions are corrupt.

You make an error by thinking that airlines are in trouble mainly because of unions. Fuel, Exec pay, irresponsible spending, and the public--yes, the public who demand forever cheaper fares--are responsible for the airlines financial state.

Did you ever stopped and think how much an air fare was 20 years ago? Not much different than today, and that is impossible to sustain.

[npog99]

Spade a Spade wrote:

<quoted text>
First of all about 13% of the workforce in the USA is union..Secondly outsourcing out of the country is running at a rate of over 65% of the manufacturing jobs..My math tells me that the majority of those jobs are not UNION.. No one right now is benifitting from this economy, which the american people did it to themselve. I watch as the workforce in this country ,which is 87% non-union, goes backwards as they lose medical,pensions and other benifits that the unions fought for, and the non-union workers have beneifited from..
I believe you are right about corrupt union leaders but then again not all of them are bad. To ignore the corrupt company officers and say they will do the right thing is closing your eyes to the other end of corruption..We need reform in the unions but we also need reform in the company board rooms and the government.

I agree with you in that we need reform. But that reform needs not only to happen in unions and boardrooms, but also in government to keep unions free to do what is needed in order to successfully protect workers without our government support for corporate practices.

Fortunately, there is change coming. I attend the National Labor College, a union supported, accredited college, and I know that labor education is growing. There is hope. But, we also need more people getting involved. This is utmost essential.

[npog99]

hanksta wrote:

<quoted text>
Unfortunately, unions are a necessary evil. The only thing the union is good for nowadays is to save jobs for screwups who don't deserve their job. Without a union you are an employee at will and the biggest kiss @#!'s get to keep their job.
Unions are against mergers because it means trimming down members which result in less union dues funneled to the union. It makes you wonder whos interest they claim they are fighting for. This merger between US/UA can be good for the employees, if done carefully and correctly.

I take offense to your comment. I am a union represented employee whose employment was wrongfully terminated during a proven medical leave of absence. I hope you never get ill and lose you job because of it.

Also, be more considerate of others. Remember: What goes around, comes around.

[npog99]

Tamora wrote:

<quoted text>
I respectfully disagree... ALPA does a lot to preserve its members' benefits and working conditions. As do most unions.
And I certainly hope that you don't think that most union employees are lazy. The hardworking pilots and flight attendants are trained professionals who handle multimillion-dollar equipment and are responsible for hundreds of lives with each flight. My father is one of them.
<quoted text>
Well, that may be true for some unions, I suppose. I can't deny it without looking into each and every union. However, you seem to feel free to speak about what "all union members" are told and what they do. Since I know for a fact that you are wrong, I can't really take you seriously. For example - since we're talking about airlines - most of the pilots that I have met are quite conservative, many are former military, and more of them vote a straight Republican ticket than a straight Democratic one. But most of them are thinking people who consider the candidates carefully and vote for the ones who they think will do the best job - and protect the right to unionize.
As a liberal and an ACLU supporter, I don't always have a lot in common with them, but I respect them.

Way to go, Tamora! This is a very well thought out response that I agree with. Good post.

[npog99]

Unions Will Slay Detroit wrote:

I'm sorry, but in 21st century America, the whole concept of unions flies in the face of basic supply/demand equilibrium theory for employment. This isn't 1920 anymore, folks. If you feel you're being poorly paid or poorly treated (that would be "management walking all over you," or whatever other rhetoric the union leaders want you to believe) then guess what, Jack? You're free to go find another job!
In case you didn't know, employment opprtunities are quite easy to find now that you can search the whole friggin' country in an instant via the internet. So if you've got a skill that's worth something, get your employer to pay you what you're worth or you can go on-line and find plenty of other employers that will pay you fairly for your skill. This is basic economics at play. People hopping to better-paying jobs leads to a natural wage increase collectively - your former employer will learn that to retain quality labor he must pay a fair value for it.
Unions totally muck up this valuation process by forcing companies to pay employees set benefits and wages whether they deserve them or not. It's like a form of socialism, and it's no wonder that the union-heavy industries in this country (autos & airlines in particular) are suffering while their overseas peers are thriving. Your unions are going to drive the businesses they supposedly "represent" all the way into the ground.
I know saying this is tantamount to blasphemy for all you union guys, so go ahead and rip me apart. I'm in a non-union industry, I look out for myself and I do quite well. So go put that in your union-cut pipe and smoke it!!

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but all those jobs that are posted out there and that you can search for fairly easy are the ones that are bringing down our American (standard of living) dream. As a former mid-manager, I can tell you that a company will never pay what a person needs in order to support her/himself, if they can get away with it. Unfortunately, people need those jobs in order to barely survive, and so they get two, sometimes three jobs to live a decent life.

What do you think of a starting flight attendant who makes $18,000 a year and has to be away from home 20 days a month?

You are right. This is the 21st century, and now more than ever, we need unions in order to be treated as a human being.

The problems in America today are the result of people thinking like you do. Since you are doing fine (as per your words), you don't care about anyone else. It is the all-too-common "me" attitude like yours that cause others to suffer.

Way to go!

[NWARETCAPT]

Dal girl wrote:

<quoted text>
"NOTHING" Oh I don't think so!!!! That is why I chose not to work for your airline in the first place....I wanted more than nothing!! I will just count my blessings that I know better than to leave my future in the hands of a union. I hope you have something on the side for your future!!

Your present and future has been in the hands of the unions. You just fail to realize it.

[npog99]

Phil Granito wrote:

Unions are "working their butts off to protect our quality of life". Clearly you don't get it. Your quality of life is far too high for the type of work you do. Let's face it, many airline jobs require no specific skills/training: baggage handlers, stewards, check-in clerks. There is no reason those folks should earn more than the minimum wage. Until that happens, the airline industry will stay in the pits.

I hope you are NEVER in an airplane accident, and require my help to get out alive, buddy.

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Flight Attendants, let alone pilots, go through several weeks of training (seven at United). And you say that our jobs require no skills?

Clearly, this is a very arrogant and ignorant comment you made.

[EX-NWA FA]

Phil Granito wrote:

Unions are "working their butts off to protect our quality of life". Clearly you don't get it. Your quality of life is far too high for the type of work you do. Let's face it, many airline jobs require no specific skills/training: baggage handlers, stewards, check-in clerks. There is no reason those folks should earn more than the minimum wage. Until that happens, the airline industry will stay in the pits.

so if f/a's are so unskilled, and anyone who worked at a 7-11 can easily assume the f/a postion, answer me these questions????

-what is an a.e.d? where is it located, what is it used for and how does it work?

-what would you do if the smoke alarm went off in the lavatory? where is that fire extinguisher, and how does it work? what fire fighting equipment should you put on and where is it?

-how many oxygen bottles are there on board, and where are they?

-in a water landing, how do you deploy the life rafts?

-you are in the aisle serving during a rapid decompression, what do you do?

-what is a fam? how do you handle a fam?

-how do you evacuate in a water evacuation on the A330 at doors 3LR?

-a passenger faints in the aisle and throws up on you, what are the proper procedures to cleans yourself and the area, and how do you care for the passenger at the same time.

i could go on, and on, but i hope at this point you get my gist.

[elizabeth]

Only Tilton and his peers benefit from the merger. Hope together with a heavy wallet he has a heavy heart for all the jobs/lives he will take away.......... doubt it. Hope he chokes on his gormet prime rib

[Contango]

npog99 wrote:

<quoted text>
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but all those jobs that are posted out there and that you can search for fairly easy are the ones that are bringing down our American (standard of living) dream. As a former mid-manager, I can tell you that a company will never pay what a person needs in order to support her/himself, if they can get away with it. Unfortunately, people need those jobs in order to barely survive, and so they get two, sometimes three jobs to live a decent life.
What do you think of a starting flight attendant who makes $18,000 a year and has to be away from home 20 days a month?
You are right. This is the 21st century, and now more than ever, we need unions in order to be treated as a human being.
The problems in America today are the result of people thinking like you do. Since you are doing fine (as per your words), you don't care about anyone else. It is the all-too-common "me" attitude like yours that cause others to suffer.
Way to go!

An entry level flight attendant job that you reference is not a career that is meant to take care of a family. Jobs are paid relative to the skills necessary and the supply of labor willing and able to meet that skillset. As such, it is to be expected that flight attendant pay is on the low end of the scale. It's not diffucult to live a good life in the most affluent and opportunistic country in the history of life of the face of the earth. If you think it is, than you are basically a complete loser with absolutely no perspective.

[Contango]

EX-NWA FA wrote:

<quoted text>
so if f/a's are so unskilled, and anyone who worked at a 7-11 can easily assume the f/a postion, answer me these questions????
-what is an a.e.d? where is it located, what is it used for and how does it work?
-what would you do if the smoke alarm went off in the lavatory? where is that fire extinguisher, and how does it work? what fire fighting equipment should you put on and where is it?
-how many oxygen bottles are there on board, and where are they?
-in a water landing, how do you deploy the life rafts?
-you are in the aisle serving during a rapid decompression, what do you do?
-what is a fam? how do you handle a fam?
-how do you evacuate in a water evacuation on the A330 at doors 3LR?
-a passenger faints in the aisle and throws up on you, what are the proper procedures to cleans yourself and the area, and how do you care for the passenger at the same time.
i could go on, and on, but i hope at this point you get my gist.

Completely pointless post. I could lay out a series of obscure job related tasks that the average janitor must learn on the first day of his job that the average person doesn't know who hasn't been a janitor. My dog has a clever way of licking his nuts while standing up, but I don't consider him worthy of a best in show because of it. I hope you get my gist.

[Steve]

As I have said prior I worked for United on the ramp at Lax for 15 years.I knew that my skills did not require me to make what I was making. Nonetheless, I still felt that the company walked all over it's employees. I always told my workmates to better themselves and be prepared for more givebacks and never ending drama in the company. United was and is not done yet in making the employees basically one rung above fry cook.That's the reality. As for the IAM,they are in bed with the company.You might say I am a disgruntled ex employee yet I left on my own terms and with a recommendation for rehire. Like that will ever happen.

[pndog]

Steve wrote:

As I have said prior I worked for United on the ramp at Lax for 15 years.I knew that my skills did not require me to make what I was making. Nonetheless, I still felt that the company walked all over it's employees. I always told my workmates to better themselves and be prepared for more givebacks and never ending drama in the company. United was and is not done yet in making the employees basically one rung above fry cook.That's the reality. As for the IAM,they are in bed with the company.You might say I am a disgruntled ex employee yet I left on my own terms and with a recommendation for rehire. Like that will ever happen.

It is called labor, and it seems as though there are many conceded people on here that think because they have a relatively easy degree such as marketing, business, economics etc that they are much better than someone that dutifully punches a clock.

The level of one's education is not mutually exclusive to one's intelligence.

[Frankie Lopez]

Contango wrote:

<quoted text>
Completely pointless post. I could lay out a series of obscure job related tasks that the average janitor must learn on the first day of his job that the average person doesn't know who hasn't been a janitor. My dog has a clever way of licking his nuts while standing up, but I don't consider him worthy of a best in show because of it. I hope you get my gist.

Thank you! We Republicans need to stick together and get this country back on track!

[pndog]

Contango wrote:

<quoted text>
Completely pointless post. I could lay out a series of obscure job related tasks that the average janitor must learn on the first day of his job that the average person doesn't know who hasn't been a janitor. My dog has a clever way of licking his nuts while standing up, but I don't consider him worthy of a best in show because of it. I hope you get my gist.

I get that you and Frankie are a couple of idiots, and I am sure many others do too.

After more than 7 years of failed republican presidential leadership, and another 12 for the legislature, I do not think this country has been more off track, and I used to vote republican.

But GWBush has made a yellow dog democrat out of me. The only reason Jeb Bush is not running is because of dismal record of his brother. But you bet your boots he will be running in 2112 against either Obama or Hillary.

The repubbics know that McCain cannot win. He is a dark horse, just like Dole was in 96. Dole loss gave GW time to get ready for 2000. He was not ready in 96, and likewise the Dems knew Kerry could not beat Bush in 2004.

You should read "American Dynasty" by Kevin Phillips, a former Nixon staff member.

But it the future when you become disgusted with the Dems, just think of Lil Bush and how he won the the Dems the election in 2008 by his stupidity.

[Old Jetbag]

EX-NWA FA wrote:

<quoted text>
so if f/a's are so unskilled, and anyone who worked at a 7-11 can easily assume the f/a postion, answer me these questions????
-what is an a.e.d? where is it located, what is it used for and how does it work?
-what would you do if the smoke alarm went off in the lavatory? where is that fire extinguisher, and how does it work? what fire fighting equipment should you put on and where is it?
-how many oxygen bottles are there on board, and where are they?
-in a water landing, how do you deploy the life rafts?
-you are in the aisle serving during a rapid decompression, what do you do?
-what is a fam? how do you handle a fam?
-how do you evacuate in a water evacuation on the A330 at doors 3LR?
-a passenger faints in the aisle and throws up on you, what are the proper procedures to cleans yourself and the area, and how do you care for the passenger at the same time.
i could go on, and on, but i hope at this point you get my gist.

Very true. Are we not allowed basic human dignity because we are in the service industry? Just because I serve you does not make me your servant! Most who love to degrade our jobs and us, do so to make themselves feel better. Just remember they are the first to hit that call button or POKE you in the rear to get your attention when something goes wrong and they usually have eyes as large as saucers because they are the most scared and clueless. Fortunately being a professional Flight Attendant for over 40 years has allowed me to raise my children. Care for a husband and most recently my housekeeper through a terminal illness and NOT be on welfare or assistance of any kind keep a home that is safe and paid for and still work. If you have issues with Flight Attendants or Pilots etc. you are always welcome to make alternate travel arrangements.

[EX-NWA FA]

Contango wrote:

<quoted text>
An entry level flight attendant job that you reference is not a career that is meant to take care of a family. Jobs are paid relative to the skills necessary and the supply of labor willing and able to meet that skillset. As such, it is to be expected that flight attendant pay is on the low end of the scale. It's not diffucult to live a good life in the most affluent and opportunistic country in the history of life of the face of the earth. If you think it is, than you are basically a complete loser with absolutely no perspective.

yes and the same position when i got hired 22 years ago paid exactly the same. is that fair with the rising costs of living today? do hotel clerks and clothing clerks make the same today as they did in 1985? and, i strongly disagree with you that a flight attendants job is skillless. why don't you ask a flight attendant to look at their over 1000 page manual that they must know? flight attendants just don't serve, yes that is the easy part and the part the public only sees. the safety and security training is the difficult part that the public rarely sees. over my years of flying when i did have a safety, security, or medical situation it was amazing how appreciative the passengers suddenly became of the expertise and professionalism we actually have. but you are correct in the fact that it is no longer a career you can live on for an extended period of time. the public will see a remarkable change in the type of flight attendants hired because you get what you pay for.