United, US Airways fly closer to merger

[mike]

United one of the worst airlines in customer service. They have some of the nastiest, clueless employees out there. Their management treats them lke dirt and what do they the management expects, good service. They all are aked to take pay cut aftetr pay cut. US Airways is still having morale and senioruity issues, put that together with the bitter Uited employees, it is a disaster ready to happen. I will never get on any of their flights and I expect alot of psassengers will bail to Southwest, American both carriers that have the best customer service. In 10 years United will go the way of TWA, Pan Am, Eastern, only to be picked apart by proabably Delta, and American. Continental was smart to shun United. They are probably going to form an alliance with American, which should work, since both are Texas companies and share similiar philosphies.

[Steve]

United, US Airways fly closer to merger.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. Fly Close to Merger.......get it??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LMFAO!!!!! You guys at the rib kill me......keep it up!

[Steve]

Trib

[tom]

Thats why the pilots of usairways got rid of their union who were on their property for 59 years.

[Big D]

usair preferred wrote:

I will admit there was a time in our country that unions were extremely needed and all US workers (union and non-union) have pretty good pay and benefits because of the work they did. The difference is that today the union (or to be more specific, the union leaders) are corrupt and doing nothing to better serve their members.

Funny, I thought it was the leveraged by outs and the millions upon millions that these CEO's keep taking after the companies they lead fail. Why do CEO's get high compensation when they lead a company into Bankruptcy? Its complete robbery of the company..period.

[Tamora]

Unions Suck wrote:

The unions will fight it becasue they are idiots and cant see the big picture. We pay our dues and get nothing they are to busy fighting for the lazy employee who deserves to be fired.

I respectfully disagree... ALPA does a lot to preserve its members' benefits and working conditions. As do most unions.

And I certainly hope that you don't think that most union employees are lazy. The hardworking pilots and flight attendants are trained professionals who handle multimillion-dollar equipment and are responsible for hundreds of lives with each flight. My father is one of them.

ACLU Member wrote:

Union members have been conditioned to be lemmings, never thinking for themselves and just doing whatever their leader tells them. For example, all union members are told to vote a straight Democratic ticket, no matter who is running. Any union member who votes Republican wouldn't dare tell anyone about it.

Well, that may be true for some unions, I suppose. I can't deny it without looking into each and every union. However, you seem to feel free to speak about what "all union members" are told and what they do. Since I know for a fact that you are wrong, I can't really take you seriously. For example - since we're talking about airlines - most of the pilots that I have met are quite conservative, many are former military, and more of them vote a straight Republican ticket than a straight Democratic one. But most of them are thinking people who consider the candidates carefully and vote for the ones who they think will do the best job - and protect the right to unionize.

As a liberal and an ACLU supporter, I don't always have a lot in common with them, but I respect them.

[Dave-O]

Nevada one wrote:

<quoted text>Think Eastern Airlines.

Right on! I was in MIA at the Viscount the day after Eastern closed down permanently. The Union morons were carrying around placards celebrating their victory!

[Unions Will Slay Detroit]

I'm sorry, but in 21st century America, the whole concept of unions flies in the face of basic supply/demand equilibrium theory for employment. This isn't 1920 anymore, folks. If you feel you're being poorly paid or poorly treated (that would be "management walking all over you," or whatever other rhetoric the union leaders want you to believe) then guess what, Jack? You're free to go find another job!

In case you didn't know, employment opprtunities are quite easy to find now that you can search the whole friggin' country in an instant via the internet. So if you've got a skill that's worth something, get your employer to pay you what you're worth or you can go on-line and find plenty of other employers that will pay you fairly for your skill. This is basic economics at play. People hopping to better-paying jobs leads to a natural wage increase collectively - your former employer will learn that to retain quality labor he must pay a fair value for it.

Unions totally muck up this valuation process by forcing companies to pay employees set benefits and wages whether they deserve them or not. It's like a form of socialism, and it's no wonder that the union-heavy industries in this country (autos & airlines in particular) are suffering while their overseas peers are thriving. Your unions are going to drive the businesses they supposedly "represent" all the way into the ground.

I know saying this is tantamount to blasphemy for all you union guys, so go ahead and rip me apart. I'm in a non-union industry, I look out for myself and I do quite well. So go put that in your union-cut pipe and smoke it!!

[get Real]

Article said the following; "But the pressure is especially keen for United CEO Glenn Tilton."

Article failed to mention contract bonus of 75 million for Tilton to merge THIS YEAR.

[pndog]

Unions Will Slay Detroit wrote:

I'm sorry, but in 21st century America, the whole concept of unions flies in the face of basic supply/demand equilibrium theory for employment. This isn't 1920 anymore, folks. If you feel you're being poorly paid or poorly treated (that would be "management walking all over you," or whatever other rhetoric the union leaders want you to believe) then guess what, Jack? You're free to go find another job!
In case you didn't know, employment opprtunities are quite easy to find now that you can search the whole friggin' country in an instant via the internet. So if you've got a skill that's worth something, get your employer to pay you what you're worth or you can go on-line and find plenty of other employers that will pay you fairly for your skill. This is basic economics at play. People hopping to better-paying jobs leads to a natural wage increase collectively - your former employer will learn that to retain quality labor he must pay a fair value for it.
Unions totally muck up this valuation process by forcing companies to pay employees set benefits and wages whether they deserve them or not. It's like a form of socialism, and it's no wonder that the union-heavy industries in this country (autos & airlines in particular) are suffering while their overseas peers are thriving. Your unions are going to drive the businesses they supposedly "represent" all the way into the ground.
I know saying this is tantamount to blasphemy for all you union guys, so go ahead and rip me apart. I'm in a non-union industry, I look out for myself and I do quite well. So go put that in your union-cut pipe and smoke it!!

Hey idiot, in the 1920's you could go out and find another job too! You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. As you said, you are in a non union enviroment, and I bet you are not subject to any of the regulations and laws that those employed in aviation industry are. We cannot put in our pipe either, because we are subject to random drug tests. When is the last time you were tested, or smoked a joint?

[Jettek]

Unions Will Slay Detroit wrote:

I'm sorry, but in 21st century America, the whole concept of unions flies in the face of basic supply/demand equilibrium theory for employment. This isn't 1920 anymore, folks. If you feel you're being poorly paid or poorly treated (that would be "management walking all over you," or whatever other rhetoric the union leaders want you to believe) then guess what, Jack? You're free to go find another job!
Did that.
In case you didn't know, employment opprtunities are quite easy to find now that you can search the whole friggin' country in an instant via the internet. So if you've got a skill that's worth something, get your employer to pay you what you're worth or you can go on-line and find plenty of other employers that will pay you fairly for your skill. This is basic economics at play. People hopping to better-paying jobs leads to a natural wage increase collectively - your former employer will learn that to retain quality labor he must pay a fair value for it.

Untill you've jumped to many times and now you're not reliable. Then when the wealthey decide you're particular cost them to much, Hello China.

Unions totally muck up this valuation process by forcing companies to pay employees set benefits and wages whether they deserve them or not. It's like a form of socialism, and it's no wonder that the union-heavy industries in this country (autos & airlines in particular) are suffering while their overseas peers are thriving. Your unions are going to drive the businesses they supposedly "represent" all the way into the ground.
Please explain why many traditional Non-union industries are being shipped overseas. The reason you hear about unions is because we are willing to fight for what is right.

I know saying this is tantamount to blasphemy for all you union guys, so go ahead and rip me apart. I'm in a non-union industry, I look out for myself and I do quite well. So go put that in your union-cut pipe and smoke it!!

What are you going to do when you have jumped one to many times. Now you are too expensive and not reliable. OOPS

[NWARETCAPT]

It was the unions that built the middle class. Whether you are union or not, a standard of living exists today that would not exist, were it not for the unions. I hope, on this, we can agree.
The unions have failed to adjust to the reality of the world markets, but to be fair, it was the government who pulled the rug out from under them by lifting protective tariffs. "What we have here is a lack of communication." (Cool hand Luke_1967) The unions and companies failed to communicate to each other the realities of the coming market place and adjustments were either slow in coming or did not take place.
The American consumer did not see an advantage in buying "made in America" and they are now paying the price in products that can not pass the smell test in quality and what is legally safe.
Though the unions have to accept a sizable portion of the responsibility, I would put the lion's share of the responsibility on the American consumer and no small amount of responsibility on the top management teams who have accepted obscene rewards for themselves, even when companies fail (little risk to them) or go into bankruptcy. The shareholders often get little return on their investment.
I would say that ethics in big business today as compared to the 50s thru the 70s and part of the 80s does not exist. They no longer see their responsibility to the community nor the country that allowed them to grow almost unabated, as a factor. And company loyalty from the employees has been all but factored out. It's a moral issue, in large part, and that's why it may never be solved in favor of the American worker.
I am a life long conservative, but I have to ask: if we are not here to build a society through respect, loyalty and the caring of each other in the work place, from the top management on down, what the hell's the point in anything? If all it is is bigger profits for the few and to hell with a standard of living that has been the envy of the world, I would say that we have pretty much lost the ball game. I thank my lucky stars that I lived when I did, so I can tell the difference between what is right and what is wrong in these matters.

[Chris]

NWARETCAPT wrote:

It was the unions that built the middle class. Whether you are union or not, a standard of living exists today that would not exist, were it not for the unions. I hope, on this, we can agree.
The unions have failed to adjust to the reality of the world markets, but to be fair, it was the government who pulled the rug out from under them by lifting protective tariffs. "What we have here is a lack of communication." (Cool hand Luke_1967) The unions and companies failed to communicate to each other the realities of the coming market place and adjustments were either slow in coming or did not take place.
The American consumer did not see an advantage in buying "made in America" and they are now paying the price in products that can not pass the smell test in quality and what is legally safe.
Though the unions have to accept a sizable portion of the responsibility, I would put the lion's share of the responsibility on the American consumer and no small amount of responsibility on the top management teams who have accepted obscene rewards for themselves, even when companies fail (little risk to them) or go into bankruptcy. The shareholders often get little return on their investment.
I would say that ethics in big business today as compared to the 50s thru the 70s and part of the 80s does not exist. They no longer see their responsibility to the community nor the country that allowed them to grow almost unabated, as a factor. And company loyalty from the employees has been all but factored out. It's a moral issue, in large part, and that's why it may never be solved in favor of the American worker.
I am a life long conservative, but I have to ask: if we are not here to build a society through respect, loyalty and the caring of each other in the work place, from the top management on down, what the hell's the point in anything? If all it is is bigger profits for the few and to hell with a standard of living that has been the envy of the world, I would say that we have pretty much lost the ball game. I thank my lucky stars that I lived when I did, so I can tell the difference between what is right and what is wrong in these matters.

Very well stated Capt. As a consultant for over 20 years, I have contracted with hundreds of companies, 10% of them aviation. The only contrast, in most cases, between aviation and other industries is action. Most retail and Mfg businesses are very fast to act on methods that reverse downward trends, yet aviation and even some software support companies are reluctant to act. I have seen mgmnt work well with unions or act as adversarial combatants, but under the right executive leadership, the trends can be reversed. Steel Dynamics, which is a nonunion steel operator is very successful with a non union steel workforce because they operate a team concept approach and the key is they stick with it and management all the way to the top, acts with morality on EVERY decision. Not on there own, but with BOD oversight, which is key. Despite the fuel crisis, I do think most industries will turn around and become stronger, even legacy airlines, but it won't be painless.

[An United employee]

It would be foolish on the part of our management to try and merge with a company that really brings nothing to the table. They still haven't swallowed the pilots union, you are going to add a 3 pilot's union to the mix? There are outstanding issues at all 3 airline groups, US air,America West and add to this mix United this is sheer lunacy. This is a merger for the sake of merger and the money the top leaders of United would make as a change in ownership grants. If this merger would solve problems ,then I and a majority of my fellow workers would be for it.

[Chris]

An United employee wrote:

It would be foolish on the part of our management to try and merge with a company that really brings nothing to the table. They still haven't swallowed the pilots union, you are going to add a 3 pilot's union to the mix? There are outstanding issues at all 3 airline groups, US air,America West and add to this mix United this is sheer lunacy. This is a merger for the sake of merger and the money the top leaders of United would make as a change in ownership grants. If this merger would solve problems ,then I and a majority of my fellow workers would be for it.

I'm just curious, not being facetious, but if you could make changes to UA right now to make them profitable in the long-term, what would you do as CEO?

[haywood jablowme]

Chris wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm just curious, not being facetious, but if you could make changes to UA right now to make them profitable in the long-term, what would you do as CEO?

I'd hire Jake Kervorkian and let him administer some heavy potassium solution through IV. That's what I'd do. Put that sick animal out of its misery.

[Dal girl]

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!
United/USAir...represented by AFA. AFA says no way because they fear a loss of $$$$.
Northwest/Delta....NW represented by AFA. Dal,Non-union. AFA says Delta f/a should have AFA representaion...it would be good for the merge.
They talk out of both sides of their mouth.
If you are counting on someone to take care of you and or your money, you are in trouble!!! As we an see by the change in our industry and world, it is a different place....far different than when the union first showed their UGLY faces and stuck their hands in your wallet. How much have you paid, and how much better off are you than we are....the ones who have never had a union. And don't tell me we beneift from you or your unions...It is America, you can demand a certain amount of respect from your place of employment, and if it is not up to your liking then go elsewhere.

[Robbin Marks]

Dal girl wrote:

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!
United/USAir...represented by AFA. AFA says no way because they fear a loss of $$$$.
Northwest/Delta....NW represented by AFA. Dal,Non-union. AFA says Delta f/a should have AFA representaion...it would be good for the merge.
They talk out of both sides of their mouth.
If you are counting on someone to take care of you and or your money, you are in trouble!!! As we an see by the change in our industry and world, it is a different place....far different than when the union first showed their UGLY faces and stuck their hands in your wallet. How much have you paid, and how much better off are you than we are....the ones who have never had a union. And don't tell me we beneift from you or your unions...It is America, you can demand a certain amount of respect from your place of employment, and if it is not up to your liking then go elsewhere.

You would have NOTHING were it not for unions!

[Dal girl]

Robbin Marks wrote:

<quoted text>
You would have NOTHING were it not for unions!

"NOTHING" Oh I don't think so!!!! That is why I chose not to work for your airline in the first place....I wanted more than nothing!! I will just count my blessings that I know better than to leave my future in the hands of a union. I hope you have something on the side for your future!!

[Phil Granito]

Unions are "working their butts off to protect our quality of life". Clearly you don't get it. Your quality of life is far too high for the type of work you do. Let's face it, many airline jobs require no specific skills/training: baggage handlers, stewards, check-in clerks. There is no reason those folks should earn more than the minimum wage. Until that happens, the airline industry will stay in the pits.