Pilots, American Could Be Close To Deal

Oct 27, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CBS Local

American's parent company AMR Corp. has reportedly sent a letter to the pilots saying that they are close to a deal with the union and the union is saying that the announcement could come next week.

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Betsy

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#1
Oct 27, 2012
 
the title of the article says it all...."Could be close". Or then again.....maybe NOT!
steve

Bedford, VA

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#2
Oct 27, 2012
 

Judged:

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I hope for the sake of all the work force,an agreement can be worked out.I feel AA can emerge as a strong stand alone carrier that can hold its own against the other major carriers.
With new aircraft arriving and replacements for old inefficient aircraft on order,this will open up opportunities for new routes as already some have been announced.
AA has worldwide recognition and hubs in very large markets unlike US with second tier city hubs and a very small widebody fleet.
I wish for all AA employees to weather this storm and let cool heads prevail.An action taken in anger is always regretted.

Betsy

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#4
Oct 28, 2012
 
Steve,

Do you not think it is possible to be 'angry', and still maintain a 'cool head'? Stress and anger are emotions, that can be controlled/managed/compartment alized.

If your answer is no ( as your post suggests), then you are not at all familiar with the personality type of a pilot.

I too, hope all AA employees weather the storm.
steve

Bedford, VA

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#6
Oct 29, 2012
 
Pilots are no different than other airline workers. Its hard for everybody to adapt to new pay and work scales. I watched as Eastern airlines employees took a very hard line stance against management only to see the entire operation shut down. So sad to see so many old timers on the street and the older one gets,the less of a chance they have to even find a job.
What I mean by controlling anger is not to sink the ship for yourself and others and when I hear of some pilots saying to shut the airline down,that's being shortsighted and those types of actions are always regretted.
Its not the same world today that it was 20 or 30 years ago,so much outsourcing,downsizing,merging and closings that all should think long and hard before embarking on a course that sink many families. I felt very angry at airways when we went through 2 chapter 11's in about 2 years so I understand the pain many feel, but the constant talking about upper management not feeling the pain of salary and benefit cuts only reopens old wounds and no amount of ranting about will change it. Its time to deal with reality and work together to help keep the airline up and running.

Since: Apr 08

Tulsa, OK

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#7
Oct 29, 2012
 

Judged:

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To Betsy, the airline and labor know it all.........

Open the following URL

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists...

Beloved SWA may be the next airline to approach their pilots and revisit payscales and etc... as well. Hopefully their pilots' personalities will accept change if need be.
Betsy

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#9
Nov 1, 2012
 
steve wrote:
Pilots are no different than other airline workers. Its hard for everybody to adapt to new pay and work scales. I watched as Eastern airlines employees took a very hard line stance against management only to see the entire operation shut down. So sad to see so many old timers on the street and the older one gets,the less of a chance they have to even find a job.
What I mean by controlling anger is not to sink the ship for yourself and others and when I hear of some pilots saying to shut the airline down,that's being shortsighted and those types of actions are always regretted.
Its not the same world today that it was 20 or 30 years ago,so much outsourcing,downsizing,merging and closings that all should think long and hard before embarking on a course that sink many families. I felt very angry at airways when we went through 2 chapter 11's in about 2 years so I understand the pain many feel, but the constant talking about upper management not feeling the pain of salary and benefit cuts only reopens old wounds and no amount of ranting about will change it. Its time to deal with reality and work together to help keep the airline up and running.
Your first sentence, defines your lack of knowledge. OR Perhaps your twisted simple minded opinion.
Let me guess.....you would negotiate with terrorist as well.
Grow a set
steve

Bedford, VA

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#10
Nov 2, 2012
 
Betsy wrote:
<quoted text>
Your first sentence, defines your lack of knowledge. OR Perhaps your twisted simple minded opinion.
Let me guess.....you would negotiate with terrorist as well.
Grow a set
Your replies show a lot of anger and a lack of courtesy. Pilots are airline employees just as are mechanics,flight attendants,ticket counter and ramp personnel. Some pilots tend to think they are above their other workmates and this is wrong. Everyone in the company is valuable,just in different ways. It takes all the employees working together to make a company run smoothly.
This tough talk attitude will accomplish nothing,nor will it change the way airlines are run. AA or US or UA or DL,they are all beholding to the stockholders and all of them have gone through what AA is going through now. AA is not unique or different from US or UA or DL.
No one likes pay cuts but what is the alternative,cut ones nose to spite ones face? Pilots are among the highest paid among all the employees and they have the greatest to lose by striking or shutting down the airline. Don't ruin it for the majority of your fellow employees by being narrow minded and self centered.
This issue can be resolved,perhaps not to everybody's liking,but no other reasonable option apart from leaving or losing ones job exists.
AV8RB

Lotus, CA

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#11
Nov 2, 2012
 
Let me try and explain to Steve and others. Pilots are not employees "like all the others". Similar to mechanics, yes, but still different. First Steve, name ONE other person or profession in the airline industry where ONE mistake can mean disaster for themselves and hundreds of others. I'm taking death here Steve. Yes, that is a cliche and has been said many times. Yet it is still blatently true and is proven time and again. Now, do you really think someone can accept that kind of responsibility day in and day out without some serious internal fortitude and conviction? You may find a few who do not, but I would submit to you that that person is NOT a good fit in this profession. Unless they are very lucky for an entire career they will either get fired or dead. I know this from first hand observation. My point is, no, I am not like all the others. Mechanics have the same responsibility albeit on an extended time frame. I am required to make life and death judgments, sometimes in a split second. I must be prepaired for that eventuality at all times while in the cockpit. I am not the same. I accept the responsibility. I demand compensation comensurate with that responsibility. If the company will not pay it, so be it. But I will not give it away. If you want to trust you life to someone who does not think like that, who is "just like all the others", well you go right ahead. As for me and my family, we'll ride with those like Betsy.
steve

Bedford, VA

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#12
Nov 2, 2012
 
AV8RB wrote:
Let me try and explain to Steve and others. Pilots are not employees "like all the others". Similar to mechanics, yes, but still different. First Steve, name ONE other person or profession in the airline industry where ONE mistake can mean disaster for themselves and hundreds of others. I'm taking death here Steve. Yes, that is a cliche and has been said many times. Yet it is still blatently true and is proven time and again. Now, do you really think someone can accept that kind of responsibility day in and day out without some serious internal fortitude and conviction? You may find a few who do not, but I would submit to you that that person is NOT a good fit in this profession. Unless they are very lucky for an entire career they will either get fired or dead. I know this from first hand observation. My point is, no, I am not like all the others. Mechanics have the same responsibility albeit on an extended time frame. I am required to make life and death judgments, sometimes in a split second. I must be prepaired for that eventuality at all times while in the cockpit. I am not the same. I accept the responsibility. I demand compensation comensurate with that responsibility. If the company will not pay it, so be it. But I will not give it away. If you want to trust you life to someone who does not think like that, who is "just like all the others", well you go right ahead. As for me and my family, we'll ride with those like Betsy.
Demand all you want,what do you and other pilots do when its either accept the contract offer or not? All this talk about not giving in and demanding will get no where. Do you really think losing a job as opposed to taking a pay cut is the wise thing to do in today's economy? Are you ready to take down all the other employees in the company who have accepted,although not happy about it,contract offers? Where will pilots go if they walk away from AA? Will they get as compensation at a new job equal to what they could have had at AA and kept their seniority? What about benefits,medical,retirement,si ck pay?
These and other questions are what pilots need to ask themselves and their families as their choice will affect their lives for years to come.
I am not saying what is happening to AA employees is fair and equitable,but life many times is that way and the way we deal with these set backs shows how we deal with these and other issues that can tear families apart.
To try and take the noble high road with the talk of pilots having great responsibility,this is true ,but pilots have always known what is expected of them.It still boils down to do you think pilots will be better off with or without the company.
Its your choice whether you stay or go,but that one decision can affect you and your families lives and those of your fellow workers. I fear the rhetoric by some of the pilots can cloud their judgement and this will prevent them from looking at the whole picture,its a very serious decision that will require some soul searching by those pilots who want to stay in the profession.
That's the way I see it and you may not agree with me but I wish the best for ALL AA employees.

Since: May 08

Santee CA

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#13
Nov 2, 2012
 
tulaaretired wrote:
To Betsy, the airline and labor know it all.........
Open the following URL
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists...
Beloved SWA may be the next airline to approach their pilots and revisit payscales and etc... as well. Hopefully their pilots' personalities will accept change if need be.
I called this years ago. As soon as SW broke from thier business plan and left secondary airports to fight the big boys. Now you have big boy landing fees, fuel costs etc. You now have the best paid employees, and don't charge fees (At least not as obviously as others). Welcome to big boy problems
George

Katy, TX

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#14
Nov 3, 2012
 
steve wrote:
<quoted text>
Demand all you want,what do you and other pilots do when its either accept the contract offer or not? All this talk about not giving in and demanding will get no where. Do you really think losing a job as opposed to taking a pay cut is the wise thing to do in today's economy? Are you ready to take down all the other employees in the company who have accepted,although not happy about it,contract offers? Where will pilots go if they walk away from AA? Will they get as compensation at a new job equal to what they could have had at AA and kept their seniority? What about benefits,medical,retirement,si ck pay?
These and other questions are what pilots need to ask themselves and their families as their choice will affect their lives for years to come.
I am not saying what is happening to AA employees is fair and equitable,but life many times is that way and the way we deal with these set backs shows how we deal with these and other issues that can tear families apart.
To try and take the noble high road with the talk of pilots having great responsibility,this is true ,but pilots have always known what is expected of them.It still boils down to do you think pilots will be better off with or without the company.
Its your choice whether you stay or go,but that one decision can affect you and your families lives and those of your fellow workers. I fear the rhetoric by some of the pilots can cloud their judgement and this will prevent them from looking at the whole picture,its a very serious decision that will require some soul searching by those pilots who want to stay in the profession.
That's the way I see it and you may not agree with me but I wish the best for ALL AA employees.
Romney and Ryan 2012!
Betsy

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#15
Nov 5, 2012
 
AV8RB wrote:
Let me try and explain to Steve and others. Pilots are not employees "like all the others". Similar to mechanics, yes, but still different. First Steve, name ONE other person or profession in the airline industry where ONE mistake can mean disaster for themselves and hundreds of others. I'm taking death here Steve. Yes, that is a cliche and has been said many times. Yet it is still blatently true and is proven time and again. Now, do you really think someone can accept that kind of responsibility day in and day out without some serious internal fortitude and conviction? You may find a few who do not, but I would submit to you that that person is NOT a good fit in this profession. Unless they are very lucky for an entire career they will either get fired or dead. I know this from first hand observation. My point is, no, I am not like all the others. Mechanics have the same responsibility albeit on an extended time frame. I am required to make life and death judgments, sometimes in a split second. I must be prepaired for that eventuality at all times while in the cockpit. I am not the same. I accept the responsibility. I demand compensation comensurate with that responsibility. If the company will not pay it, so be it. But I will not give it away. If you want to trust you life to someone who does not think like that, who is "just like all the others", well you go right ahead. As for me and my family, we'll ride with those like Betsy.
AV8RB,
great post!...but you will never get the simple minded, opinionated, uneducated folks to see an opposing side.
Fly aggresively safe! Best wishes to you and your family.
Betsy

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#16
Nov 5, 2012
 
steve wrote:
<quoted text>
Demand all you want,what do you and other pilots do when its either accept the contract offer or not? All this talk about not giving in and demanding will get no where. Do you really think losing a job as opposed to taking a pay cut is the wise thing to do in today's economy? Are you ready to take down all the other employees in the company who have accepted,although not happy about it,contract offers? Where will pilots go if they walk away from AA? Will they get as compensation at a new job equal to what they could have had at AA and kept their seniority? What about benefits,medical,retirement,si ck pay?
These and other questions are what pilots need to ask themselves and their families as their choice will affect their lives for years to come.
I am not saying what is happening to AA employees is fair and equitable,but life many times is that way and the way we deal with these set backs shows how we deal with these and other issues that can tear families apart.
To try and take the noble high road with the talk of pilots having great responsibility,this is true ,but pilots have always known what is expected of them.It still boils down to do you think pilots will be better off with or without the company.
Its your choice whether you stay or go,but that one decision can affect you and your families lives and those of your fellow workers. I fear the rhetoric by some of the pilots can cloud their judgement and this will prevent them from looking at the whole picture,its a very serious decision that will require some soul searching by those pilots who want to stay in the profession.
That's the way I see it and you may not agree with me but I wish the best for ALL AA employees.
ahhhh, finally your last sentence states it....NO, WE DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU! YEAH, we are selfish arrogant idiots....we have not at all thought about how this will affect our families, and our judgement is clouded. Too much time spent at 30,000 feet.

are you for real?
Betsy

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#17
Nov 5, 2012
 
steve wrote:
<quoted text>
Demand all you want,what do you and other pilots do when its either accept the contract offer or not? All this talk about not giving in and demanding will get no where. Do you really think losing a job as opposed to taking a pay cut is the wise thing to do in today's economy? Are you ready to take down all the other employees in the company who have accepted,although not happy about it,contract offers? Where will pilots go if they walk away from AA? Will they get as compensation at a new job equal to what they could have had at AA and kept their seniority? What about benefits,medical,retirement,si ck pay?
These and other questions are what pilots need to ask themselves and their families as their choice will affect their lives for years to come.
I am not saying what is happening to AA employees is fair and equitable,but life many times is that way and the way we deal with these set backs shows how we deal with these and other issues that can tear families apart.
To try and take the noble high road with the talk of pilots having great responsibility,this is true ,but pilots have always known what is expected of them.It still boils down to do you think pilots will be better off with or without the company.
Its your choice whether you stay or go,but that one decision can affect you and your families lives and those of your fellow workers. I fear the rhetoric by some of the pilots can cloud their judgement and this will prevent them from looking at the whole picture,its a very serious decision that will require some soul searching by those pilots who want to stay in the profession.
That's the way I see it and you may not agree with me but I wish the best for ALL AA employees.
The answer to your first question/sentence is.....NOT.

Yet some how, you continue to post, that the pilots will be responsible for the " fellow workers" as you put it.

Thats interesting...
Jim

Glendale, CA

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#18
Nov 5, 2012
 
I agree 100 percent with av8rb. And Betsy! Pilots are not in the same category as other employees and should not be made to feel guilty for defending their profession
There is an acute pilot shortage worldwide and it will only get worse. Pilots are worth every penny they are paid and then some.
Airlines are not struggling because of pilot compensation anyway. They need to factor that in as a fixed cost. Fuel, other unionized labor, intense competition, bad management are the bigger issues. In parts of Asia they are paying twice the salary for qualified pilots as the United states and many US pilots are taking the jobs.
For those of you who hate pilots ,are envious or just think they don't deserve everything they get. Go take flying lessons, acquire some experience by paying your dues and maybe you can be our co-pilots in about 10 years. Good luck! It's a lot of work and you need to love what you do.
Jim

Glendale, CA

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#19
Nov 5, 2012
 
Some other harsh realities

How long it takes to replace an employee?

A ramp worker. 1 to 7 days or just outsource
A ticket agent. 2 to 4 weeks, or just outsource
A flight attendant. 1 to 5 weeks ( FAA has approved an expedited 1 week course)
An aircraft mechanic ..... Outsource to places like el Salvador (just ask southwest or jet blue)
Aircraft fueler.... Outsource
An aircraft cleaner.... Outsource.
A pilot .. Minimum qualifications would take at least 2 years and might be hired by shadow flight schools (aka) commuters. More realistically 5 years minimum with at least several thousand hours flying time. Excellent health ,4 year degree minimum. ATP rating.

What's the point? It's not about what's fair, it's about how valuable/ replaceable you are. Sad but true. For those on the replaceable list there is some hope. You can find it on the long running advert in our very own American way magazine
which says " in business , it's not what you deserve, it's what you negotiate"!
In the end, we are all just an employee number. Negotiate well!!

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