Airline Service "Dismal" According To Passengers

[Rays]

Bi-racial and proud wrote:

<quoted text>
Once again, if you do not like Southwest Airlines,no one is forcing you to take ride on their planes. Here are some actual passenger complaints for the major airlines to show you how wonderful the legacy carriers are and what people think of them, the difference you pay $100 -$400 dollars extra for crappy service, but if you want to be a snob, be my guest. Oh and BTW, the numbers aren't "fudged" this is Boeings website and who has ordered new planes, the other carriers can't AFFORD new planes.
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/in...
American Airlines
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/am_aa.htm
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/americane...
Continental
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/contl.htm
Delta
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/delta.htm
Jet Blue
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/jet_blue....
Northwest
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/n_west.ht...
Southwest
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/sth_west....
United
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/ual.htm

The Fact is There are FEW Complaints about the Service SWA offers...Because they Don't Have any Service....People Know SWA Offers a Flight from Point A to Point B..Thats It Period....They Don't Expect anything Else,so No Complaints..The Other Carriers Used to Serve Hot Meals, Furnish Magazines,Pillows and Blankets and Passangers Got Used to It...Now that that No Longer Exists,(Except for Meals on CO)They have Somthing to Complain about...But SWA NEVER offered anything to Begin With So there is Nothing to Complain About

[Rays]

OH Yeah, I read Starting in 2009 AMR Would Be Averaging 4 New 737-800 Per Month for the Next 3 Years to Replace their MD 80's and Would Probably Excellerat it even More....

[Jody B]

Lineguy,

The thing that I wonder about is how does SWA make such a profit charging the rock bottom prices that they charge unless they are cutting corners somewhere? I know they cut out cleaning the planes. They cut out the customer service such as seat assignments. It makes me wonder what else they cut out.

I know ALL the other airlines are having problems now. Probably the fact that most of their former passengers are over at the SWA gate lined up like cattle waiting to stampede onto a plane.

If SWA is doing all that they are supposed to do by way of maintaining the planes etc and still able to turn a profit, then all the airlines should be able to do it for a simular price.

I can't believe that Continental has to charge me more than double what SWA charges just to give me a seat assignment and a TV dinner.

Then again, I have often sat in movie theatres that were only about 25% filled and thought that if they cut the prices of everything down enough to fill the theatre, that they would make more money. That seems to be SWA's business model and it seems to be working.

[Former Lineguy]

Jody B wrote:

Lineguy,
The thing that I wonder about is how does SWA make such a profit charging the rock bottom prices that they charge unless they are cutting corners somewhere? I know they cut out cleaning the planes. They cut out the customer service such as seat assignments. It makes me wonder what else they cut out.
I know ALL the other airlines are having problems now. Probably the fact that most of their former passengers are over at the SWA gate lined up like cattle waiting to stampede onto a plane.
If SWA is doing all that they are supposed to do by way of maintaining the planes etc and still able to turn a profit, then all the airlines should be able to do it for a simular price.
I can't believe that Continental has to charge me more than double what SWA charges just to give me a seat assignment and a TV dinner.
Then again, I have often sat in movie theatres that were only about 25% filled and thought that if they cut the prices of everything down enough to fill the theatre, that they would make more money. That seems to be SWA's business model and it seems to be working.

Hey Jody, Well one of the reasons they can is because they have very good management in comparison to the other airlines. Also they have only ONE type of aircraft this allows them enormous savings in training costs for both pilots and mechanics plus they turn aircraft in record time to allow for maximum utilization it is not because they skimp on maintenance..In fact their pilots and mechanics are union and are paid at the top of the industry inspite of low costs. Pilots and mechanics from other airlines wish they worked for SWA. Now I don't like the "cattle car" type flying they do but their formula works for them. If I didn't work for FedEx right now I would be trying to get on with SWA..

[WOW]

Mr Customer wrote:

<quoted text>
The problem with these dumb-wit flight attendants is that these no good people complain about the customers that make their jobs. I hear these flight attendants whine about their jobs and then whine when customers demand what is promised of them. If Mr. Flight Attendant, you don't like us the customers, then why don't you go find another job in the real world where your employer will require you to meet your customers' demand at every cost. The reason airline are in deep shit is because of their own making as you do not how to run business. In this world of fish eating fish, if you can't make it, you fold and let someone else take the lead. Having dealt with airline idiots on a weekly basis (not by choice but my employer requires me to travel as a condition of employment), I have no empathy for airlines or their employees. Get out and see the real world on how good customer service is a requirement for employment.

If you read my posts you could have written them. However my opinion goes unnoticed or uncommented on other than snide, petty little attacks inside of comments to other people's posts. I believe the wor embellished was used as well. That was a good laugh. The airlines are EMBELLISHING themselves right out of business. This post is filled with frustrated Flt Att, however I will mention again, there are no comments from their Mgt or Human Resources dept.
I travel only for my work--alot. Personally I don't pay to be treated badly. I can go to work and get payed for mistreatment if I choose to. If you readover the posts you would be apalled at all the airline employees that seem to be truly out of touch with the fact that airlines are a service industry. I don't require starved FAs or anyone kissing my back, but I will not tolerate being treated like a criminal if I fly. In Atlanta last week a gate att actually stated yelling at me. YELLING. All because I waited forever, some dumbass pulled me out of line to use the broken KIOSK. Then when like I said it didn't work I went back to my place in line-next. She stated yelling like there was a fir I better get to the back of the line. Not happening. The poor guy she had been yelling at the counter was almost in tears. Her supervisors stood there letting her be heard down the airport yelling at passengers and never said a word. Yet they are all doing us a favor.

[Air Tub]

Southwest just keeps on rakeing it in! They must be doing something right. Personally, I like Southwest and the service they provide out of Birmingham. While Delta,Northwest,and US Air are cutting back in service out of BHM, Southwest is adding! I say congradulations to Southwest and keep on kicking butt!

[Rays]

Former Lineguy wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Jody, Well one of the reasons they can is because they have very good management in comparison to the other airlines. Also they have only ONE type of aircraft this allows them enormous savings in training costs for both pilots and mechanics plus they turn aircraft in record time to allow for maximum utilization it is not because they skimp on maintenance..In fact their pilots and mechanics are union and are paid at the top of the industry inspite of low costs. Pilots and mechanics from other airlines wish they worked for SWA. Now I don't like the "cattle car" type flying they do but their formula works for them. If I didn't work for FedEx right now I would be trying to get on with SWA..

The Can Aford to Pay their Mechanics Top Pay Because the Don't have as Many compared to Other Airlines.65% of their Maintance is out sourced.One good thing is that they Did pull out of their Deal with Aeroman in Houduras

[Old Jetbag]

WOW wrote:

<quoted text>
If you read my posts you could have written them. However my opinion goes unnoticed or uncommented on other than snide, petty little attacks inside of comments to other people's posts. I believe the wor embellished was used as well. That was a good laugh. The airlines are EMBELLISHING themselves right out of business. This post is filled with frustrated Flt Att, however I will mention again, there are no comments from their Mgt or Human Resources dept.
I travel only for my work--alot. Personally I don't pay to be treated badly. I can go to work and get payed for mistreatment if I choose to. If you readover the posts you would be apalled at all the airline employees that seem to be truly out of touch with the fact that airlines are a service industry. I don't require starved FAs or anyone kissing my back, but I will not tolerate being treated like a criminal if I fly. In Atlanta last week a gate att actually stated yelling at me. YELLING. All because I waited forever, some dumbass pulled me out of line to use the broken KIOSK. Then when like I said it didn't work I went back to my place in line-next. She stated yelling like there was a fir I better get to the back of the line. Not happening. The poor guy she had been yelling at the counter was almost in tears. Her supervisors stood there letting her be heard down the airport yelling at passengers and never said a word. Yet they are all doing us a favor.

To the contrary I LOVE my customers and give them the respect I would ANYONE else in public GIVEN the chance. There are times when a passenger goes off the edge and I just let them vent and then offer them some water. It is customer service! However, management at EVERY air carrier does promote a certain amount of animosity they use it as a control factor and bargaining chips and it does not matter if you are doing your job or not. I have seen Flight Attendants who NEVER did their job were horrible to the passengers and did not not get so much as a "talk". Then another comes on with a questionable nail color, I kid you not and she is practically drug off the aircraft. It happens at them all it is part of the structure, and there will always be people put in charge that should not be, including upper management. It is just a fact of the business world and the politics that go along with it. I just plug along doing the best job I can and walk away feeling good about it. Work is almost like a vacation to me to get away.

[Bi-racial and proud]

Rays wrote:

<quoted text>The Fact is There are FEW Complaints about the Service SWA offers...Because they Don't Have any Service....People Know SWA Offers a Flight from Point A to Point B..Thats It Period....They Don't Expect anything Else,so No Complaints..The Other Carriers Used to Serve Hot Meals, Furnish Magazines,Pillows and Blankets and Passangers Got Used to It...Now that that No Longer Exists,(Except for Meals on CO)They have Somthing to Complain about...But SWA NEVER offered anything to Begin With So there is Nothing to Complain About

That's is what an airline is supposed to do, fly you from one place to another without killing you, has anyone ever thought that the reason airline travel is so expensive is due to the fact that the airline has to feed and entertain you?

How much more does a plane cost if the airline has to put screens on the seatbacks for a 2 hour flight, you don't think that that would increase the overall cost of the plane, increasing the price of your ticket. Face it, Southwest has found a way to cut costs and the big's just can't deal with it.

I expect a clean plane and to land in one piece and Southwest has always done that for me, what else are they supposed to do?

[Musician]

Old Jetbag wrote:

<quoted text> However, management at EVERY air carrier does promote a certain amount of animosity ...

Not all.

[Jody B]

Former Lineguy wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Jody, Well one of the reasons they can is because they have very good management in comparison to the other airlines. Also they have only ONE type of aircraft this allows them enormous savings in training costs for both pilots and mechanics plus they turn aircraft in record time to allow for maximum utilization it is not because they skimp on maintenance..In fact their pilots and mechanics are union and are paid at the top of the industry inspite of low costs. Pilots and mechanics from other airlines wish they worked for SWA. Now I don't like the "cattle car" type flying they do but their formula works for them. If I didn't work for FedEx right now I would be trying to get on with SWA..

Lineguy,

That does make a great deal of sense. I do value your opinion. As someone inside the business, you have insight that I just don't have.

[Jody B]

Old Jetbag wrote:

<quoted text>
To the contrary I LOVE my customers and give them the respect I would ANYONE else in public GIVEN the chance. There are times when a passenger goes off the edge and I just let them vent and then offer them some water. It is customer service! However, management at EVERY air carrier does promote a certain amount of animosity they use it as a control factor and bargaining chips and it does not matter if you are doing your job or not. I have seen Flight Attendants who NEVER did their job were horrible to the passengers and did not not get so much as a "talk". Then another comes on with a questionable nail color, I kid you not and she is practically drug off the aircraft. It happens at them all it is part of the structure, and there will always be people put in charge that should not be, including upper management. It is just a fact of the business world and the politics that go along with it. I just plug along doing the best job I can and walk away feeling good about it. Work is almost like a vacation to me to get away.

Jetbag,

I can truly relate to what you are saying.

It brings to mind the old saying "Everyone rises to there own level of incompetence".

I see it happen all the time in my industry as well. Someone gets promoted to manager because they were a good programmer, but they don't have a clue about how to be a good manager. So, they stumble along griping about what people wear and making up rules etc. Eventually, they make enough mistakes and see the consequences and actually become pretty good managers. It is usually about then that they pick up a job at another company for more money.

Also reminds me of the SWA captain that refused to fly they lady in the miniskirt. I have to laugh about that, because in my opinion, if they refused to fly everyone who wasn't dressed appropriately, they'd be flying around in mostly empty planes.

I also hope he was a good pilot, because as far as I'm concerned chastising passengers for what they are wearing should not be part of a pilots duties unless it is a matter of safety.

I'm glad to hear that you enjoy your work. I enjoy my work also. There have been many times when I thought "I can't believe someone actually pays me to do this". I don't make the best money, but I would rather do something I enjoy anyway.

[WOW]

Old Jetbag wrote:

<quoted text>
To the contrary I LOVE my customers and give them the respect I would ANYONE else in public GIVEN the chance. There are times when a passenger goes off the edge and I just let them vent and then offer them some water. It is customer service! However, management at EVERY air carrier does promote a certain amount of animosity they use it as a control factor and bargaining chips and it does not matter if you are doing your job or not. I have seen Flight Attendants who NEVER did their job were horrible to the passengers and did not not get so much as a "talk". Then another comes on with a questionable nail color, I kid you not and she is practically drug off the aircraft. It happens at them all it is part of the structure, and there will always be people put in charge that should not be, including upper management. It is just a fact of the business world and the politics that go along with it. I just plug along doing the best job I can and walk away feeling good about it. Work is almost like a vacation to me to get away.

when i read your posts i laugh. Not at you at thr irony. I have worked in the Aeronautics world for 30 years on the other side. Aircarft maintenance. I went thru alot. Somehow I took one class at a time, raised 4 children, and enede up in management. I am apologizing for mking 6 figures as one poster alluded to we six figure salary people didn't understand real working conditions. I also had weight standards and alot of very unfair policies directed at me. I don't care if a FA is 200 pounds if their uniform is pressed and not missing buttons. Men and women both are busting out of there uniforms with food all over them. They have more rolls than the Pillsbury Dough Boy. Size doesn't determine professinalism, but hygeine sure does. I think the FAs are 1% of the issues the airline has. Again you don't see the sorry CEOs and pilots commenting. They are on vacation unlike the rest of the workers making 10 dollars an hour. When I say REAL job, i mean if u clean tolilets for a living, than just make sure it is the cleanest toilet anyone ever sat on. If you are a Flt att. or you deal with large amounts of the general public, than make sure you have inherebt respect for people and excellent coping skills. NEWSFLASH -- people get ugly when they are frustrated. Certainly if you are old school and have even basic manners you can see the dynamic has changed significantly in customer service. How many thousands of jobs are lost and families affected by the attitude so many of the employees have and the lowered hiring standards. Yet I still believe the problem starts at the top.

[All American Race Fan]

LOL, i knew that wouldnt last long.That place was a junk whole, i worked there for years.

[Old Jetbag]

Musician wrote:

<quoted text>
Not all.

Dear, Southwest is more of an exception than a rule in the aviation world, and I mean that in the best sense. Thanks to a great deal of foresight by it's founders. However I will say like ANYPLACE that employs people at times people who are not a right match for a management position get one and send a message that is not the vision of the company. Fortunately at Southwest they do not let these people stay where they are very long. I have never said ANYTHING bad about Southwest, never will, my niece is retired from there and my nephew is still there, and loves it.

[Musician]

Old Jetbag wrote:

<quoted text>
Dear, Southwest is more of an exception than a rule in the aviation world, and I mean that in the best sense. Thanks to a great deal of foresight by it's founders. However I will say like ANYPLACE that employs people at times people who are not a right match for a management position get one and send a message that is not the vision of the company. Fortunately at Southwest they do not let these people stay where they are very long. I have never said ANYTHING bad about Southwest, never will, my niece is retired from there and my nephew is still there, and loves it.

Not a big deal, but your statement was that "management promotes," as if throughout the company. Just clarifying.

[Jody B]

Ok, for those who are interested, I made my trip from BWI to Burbank on SWA and just got home a couple of days ago.

I can only say that I don't know who they are giving the "customer satisfaction surveys" to. Certainly, they would not have faired well if they had polled the plane full of people that they dumped off at BWI 4 hours late at 4am in the morning.

First let me start off by saying something more positive. The first leg of our flight was to Vegas. Without a doubt, one of the best and nicest flight crews I have ever flown with. They were GREAT! They even kept their cool dealing with a couple of irate passengers who were fighting over the armrest of all things. I could not have been happier with the service on that flight.

I must admit, that they have made some improvements to the process by at least assigning a position number in the bording line. At least you don't have to sit on the floor with your bags anymore.

But, SWA just makes up the schedule as they go along. Forget about what it says on your itenarary. For example when we landed in Vegas, the FA's made the announcement that the flight would be continuing on to San Jose and all the passengers that were bound for there, should stay seated. However, as soon as they opened the door, they announced that "This plane going to have to go back to Dallas so everybody off!" This didn't really effect me, so I didn't give it much thought at the time. I was still very satisfied.

Then when we went looking for our connection to burbank, we discovered that there was a ~2 hour delay. Add that to the 1.5 hours we already expected to be waiting and now we are stuck waiting 3.5hours for our next leg.

All in all, I still arrived in Burbank feeling pretty satisfied.

The return flight started out pretty much the same. It was on time and the FA's were great. There was one female FA who was pretty dishoveled looking. It brought to my mind the comment that one of the FA's made about how poorly the passengers dressed, but that really didn't bother me any. She was very nice anyway.

Same thing again they plane was supposed to be going to Chicago until they opened the door, then it was everybody off and wait here. Again, it didn't affect us, but it shows how lame SWA can be.

The real problem was when we got to Phoenix. When I looked at the board for the departing flights ours was delayed almost 4 hours. We should have got home at around midnight. Instead, we were looking at getting home at 4am. This is pretty darn inconvienient for the person who was picking us up at the airport.

I know that crap happens and I've been delayed on other airlines at times. When it happened, the other airlines usually at least act like they are sorry. I've even seen the other airlines give out complemetary drinks etc as a way of trying to make up for the fact that they were running late.

Not so at SWA! SWA doesn't care about any inconvienence they cause. Not only did they not offer anything to make up for there lameness, they didn't even offer the drinks for sale on that leg of the flight.

Then, as far as the actual flight myself... It was by far the roughest flight I have ever been on, and it was no wonder. Now, I preface this by saying that never in my life have I ever had anything negative to say about ANY pilot... Until now. I guess in the interest of trying to make up for being 4 hours late, this idiot flew us directly over a thunderstorm!

Now, I've been on several flights where I could look ot the window and see the lightning from storms that we were flying around, but I have never looked down and seen lightning striking directly below the plane. Like I've said many times before, they don't really give a ratz azz about passenger comfort or safety.

Needless to say, by the time we got home, I was in a pretty crappy mood. It kind of negates the whole point of going on a vacation.

[Corina]

Sorry to hear about your flight Jody B. The whole plane swap thing burns flight crews up as well because the pilots or the flight attendants do not find out about it most of the time until the last minute, just like you. It is at the least VERY frustrating, I too think it sets a bad example. Originally it was intended to prevent flights from being overly late. By delaying several for just a few minutes and to continue operations. Not sure it is working to that advantage any longer.

As far as the whole pilot thing. My philosophy is I do not tell them how to fly the plane and they do not tell me how to do my job. I have told several pilots this summer that. I had one the other day, we were trying to get a family with 5 kids and a grandmother who needed a wheelchair off the plane. He tells me to get them wings. They had already had wings, an activity book, sodas, ANY snacks we would find. I just wanted to get them to their connection ASAP and this jerk comes on and tells me to get them wings. I asked him if he had done his walk-around inspection yet and he turned red. At this point I probably looked VERY dishoveled. I know I was mad as hell.

All I can say is it has been one CRAZY summer with the weather, mechanicals, crew shortages, and the wild card of fuel conservation thrown in just for good measure. I took over a plane for a six am originator departure out of SMF the other day and it had just got in 45 minutes earlier after a MDW delay. If Southwest had control over the weather it would make even more money. Not making excuses just realistic. Sometimes the trip that looks the easiest on paper is a mess when executed.

Again I am sorry for your experience. I hope your next travel experience, whomever you fly will be a better more enjoyable one.

[Rays]

Bi-racial and proud wrote:

<quoted text>
That's is what an airline is supposed to do, fly you from one place to another without killing you, has anyone ever thought that the reason airline travel is so expensive is due to the fact that the airline has to feed and entertain you?
How much more does a plane cost if the airline has to put screens on the seatbacks for a 2 hour flight, you don't think that that would increase the overall cost of the plane, increasing the price of your ticket. Face it, Southwest has found a way to cut costs and the big's just can't deal with it.
I expect a clean plane and to land in one piece and Southwest has always done that for me, what else are they supposed to do?

Then I Am Glad you Agree with Me...The Fact that the Flying Public Has Very LOW Expectations when They Fly SWA...If you Don't Expect anything then there is Nothing to Complain About...People Knew when they Flew one of the Majors they Got Hot Meals, Pillows, Blankets,Etc And Swa Never offered these Services..So Now that The Major no Longer offer these Service People Complain...Where as SWA Never offered the Services So the Flying Public has Nothing to Complain About...

[Bi-racial and proud]

Rays wrote:

<quoted text>Then I Am Glad you Agree with Me...The Fact that the Flying Public Has Very LOW Expectations when They Fly SWA...If you Don't Expect anything then there is Nothing to Complain About...People Knew when they Flew one of the Majors they Got Hot Meals, Pillows, Blankets,Etc And Swa Never offered these Services..So Now that The Major no Longer offer these Service People Complain...Where as SWA Never offered the Services So the Flying Public has Nothing to Complain About...

When I travel on a 45 minute flight from Denver to Alburquerque, I don't want to pay $300 for a roundtrip ticket just so someone can give me a sandwich, just get me there and get me there in one piece, ok.