Farmers are getting a sweet deal

Last month, 15 U.S. senators extended tax subsidies for domestic ethanol production. Full Story
Chris

Chico, CA

#1 Jan 6, 2011
I would agree that there is something very wrong when we use food people can eat to produce gas for cars...

We are still seeking a valid plan to put a "Bridge Fuel" in place...

We really need an energy plan in this country...
Albert

San Jose, CA

#2 Jan 6, 2011
Actually, corn used for ethanol production isn't suitable for human consumption. However, the land could be used for corn and beans that could be eaten by humans. Additionally, when grain is used for ethanol instead of livestock feed it inflates the cost of feed which in turn inflates the cost of meat.

Ethanol proponents may say what they like but I know for a fact that ethanol added to my '09 Jeep Cherokee's fuel causes an 8% DECREASE in my fuel economy compared to fuel with no ethanol in the fuel. Hardly makes sense to spend so many resources on something which provides virtually no benefit.
Westernfarmer

Wiseton, Canada

#3 Jan 6, 2011
Chris wrote:
I would agree that there is something very wrong when we use food people can eat to produce gas for cars...
We are still seeking a valid plan to put a "Bridge Fuel" in place...
We really need an energy plan in this country...
Where did you think we got energy for producing food before oil? We got it from grain since farms were plowed by using horses. If we run out of oil we will need to go back to using crops exclusively for an energy source for agriculture. Wouldn't it be better to prepare for that eventuality now rather than later? As a grain farmer growing 7400 acres of crops we use about 2.5 gallons/acre of diesel per year for our total production. The yield of biodiesel is approximately 110 gallons per acre from an average canola crop. The efficiency of biodiesel on our farm is 1:44 before transportation of the biodiesel has been factored in. We are well on our way to becoming self sufficient in energy if biodiesel is used. I can't speak for corn but here in Canada canola is a good option. I think your government is wise to look at crops now before it is too late.
This idea of farmers getting sweet deals is all wrong. Only a non-farmer would write such an idiotic statement! As a 4th generation farmer who has recently seen most young people leave for the city, I think it is the urban people who must be getting the sweet deals!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Effici...

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#4 Jan 7, 2011
Westernfarmer wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you think we got energy for producing food before oil? We got it from grain since farms were plowed by using horses. If we run out of oil we will need to go back to using crops exclusively for an energy source for agriculture. Wouldn't it be better to prepare for that eventuality now rather than later? As a grain farmer growing 7400 acres of crops we use about 2.5 gallons/acre of diesel per year for our total production. The yield of biodiesel is approximately 110 gallons per acre from an average canola crop. The efficiency of biodiesel on our farm is 1:44 before transportation of the biodiesel has been factored in. We are well on our way to becoming self sufficient in energy if biodiesel is used.
This discussion is not about farmers becoming energy self-sufficient. It's about the GovMint paying farmers to grow corn, turn it into ethanol, and then mix it into the gasoline we buy from you folks up in Canada after you've boiled the oil out of the tar sands by burning copious amounts of natural gas. It's about whether or not that "process" is a "smart" energy policy, or is it just a pay-off to large farmers.
Westernfarmer wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't speak for corn but here in Canada canola is a good option. I think your government is wise to look at crops now before it is too late.
Then why are you interjecting yourself in this conversation? Had you not noticed the article was about ethanol production FROM CORN?
Westernfarmer wrote:
<quoted text>
This idea of farmers getting sweet deals is all wrong. Only a non-farmer would write such an idiotic statement! As a 4th generation farmer who has recently seen most young people leave for the city, I think it is the urban people who must be getting the sweet deals!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Effici...
Hey look....I'm all for farmers, but since you're a farmer from Canada, and since this is about a "sweet deal" related to corn crops and ethanol production in the USA, maybe you should jump on another forum about bio-diesel using Canadian canola oil?
Westernfarmer

Wiseton, Canada

#5 Jan 8, 2011
RE: Brad Jenks saying:
"This discussion is not about farmers becoming energy self-sufficient. It's about the GovMint paying farmers to grow corn, turn it into ethanol, and then mix it into the gasoline we buy from you folks up in Canada after you've boiled the oil out of the tar sands by burning copious amounts of natural gas. It's about whether or not that "process" is a "smart" energy policy, or is it just a pay-off to large farmers."

I never said anything about farmers becoming self-sufficient. You non-farmers don't get it! Do you think food is grown in the supermarket? Food production throughout the world is intertwined. If the world runs out of crude oil and we have no alternative energy, there will be no food to eat anywhere. It's the world that needs to think of self-sufficiency in food. We produce the equivalent of 18 million loaves of bread in one year on our family farm. This is modern agriculture. By the way you are describing it most farmers are just sucking up a lot of money and not producing anything. If you want to look at where the real pay-offs are look in Washington and Wall Street!

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#6 Jan 8, 2011
Westernfarmer wrote:
RE: Brad Jenks saying:
"This discussion is not about farmers becoming energy self-sufficient. It's about the GovMint paying farmers to grow corn, turn it into ethanol, and then mix it into the gasoline we buy from you folks up in Canada after you've boiled the oil out of the tar sands by burning copious amounts of natural gas. It's about whether or not that "process" is a "smart" energy policy, or is it just a pay-off to large farmers."
I never said anything about farmers becoming self-sufficient.
You never said anything about farmers becoming self-sufficient? When you said this (below) in the post before this one (sbove) what were you referring to?

"The yield of biodiesel is approximately 110 gallons per acre from an average canola crop. The efficiency of biodiesel on our farm is 1:44 before transportation of the biodiesel has been factored in. We are well on our way to becoming self sufficient in energy if biodiesel is used..."
Westernfarmer

Wiseton, Canada

#7 Jan 8, 2011
brad jenks wrote:
<quoted text>
You never said anything about farmers becoming self-sufficient? When you said this (below) in the post before this one (sbove) what were you referring to?
"The yield of biodiesel is approximately 110 gallons per acre from an average canola crop. The efficiency of biodiesel on our farm is 1:44 before transportation of the biodiesel has been factored in. We are well on our way to becoming self sufficient in energy if biodiesel is used..."
I am talking about the population in general, not just farmers. I am referring to the efficiency of biodiesel for energy in general. Since it is agriculture that will be producing it. You seem to miss my point in general that a subsidy may be justified in the short run so that we all don't starve to death. When the world only has a 1-3 month food reserve at any one time, isn't it a bit foolish to live so close to the edge? Just look around and look at the bad weather this year. We had 3 times our normal rain and almost lost our total crop, Australia has huge grain losses right now, parts of Pakistan lost major agriculture crops to floods. The world is in danger of running out of food sooner that you might think. Farmers don't necessarily make a profit on their crops, and have had many decades of poor prices which have had their toll.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#8 Jan 8, 2011
Westernfarmer wrote:
<quoted text>
I am talking about the population in general, not just farmers. I am referring to the efficiency of biodiesel for energy in general. Since it is agriculture that will be producing it. You seem to miss my point in general that a subsidy may be justified in the short run so that we all don't starve to death. When the world only has a 1-3 month food reserve at any one time, isn't it a bit foolish to live so close to the edge? Just look around and look at the bad weather this year. We had 3 times our normal rain and almost lost our total crop, Australia has huge grain losses right now, parts of Pakistan lost major agriculture crops to floods. The world is in danger of running out of food sooner that you might think. Farmers don't necessarily make a profit on their crops, and have had many decades of poor prices which have had their toll.
Fair enough....if you read what you wrote....."If we run out of oil we will need to go back to using crops exclusively for an energy source for agriculture. Wouldn't it be better to prepare for that eventuality now rather than later? As a grain farmer growing 7400 acres of crops we use about 2.5 gallons/acre of diesel per year for our total production. The yield of biodiesel is approximately 110 gallons per acre from an average canola crop."

I think you might see where a reader would be misled....

Now....currently in the US we import about 14,000,0000 barrels PER DAY of crude oil (much of it from Canada). Perhaps you ought to run the numbers and see how many 7400 farmed acres producing 110 gallons per acre (2 barrels roughly = 110 gallons) we'd need to meet our current demands.... I'd be interested in YOUR equasion....

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#9 Jan 8, 2011
I put one too man zeros on that last post....been loading wood and came back and noticed it...we import 14 million barrels per day.....

Terrible day in Arizona...
drink the hive

United States

#10 Jan 8, 2011
The Remaining Literature Available 2 The Layman Dwells Illusion.
So?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Agriculture Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
On The Evolution Of Immune Response Genes In Pl... 5 hr Davidbrownn 1
Carl Casale, president and CEO of CHS Inc. Jan 25 carl 1
How to grow Mango in a totally organic way? Jan 23 Davidbrownn 1
Natural Farming Jan 22 Davidbrownn 1
Genetically Modified Foods Safe To Eat? Jan 21 Davidbrownn 1
Wheat Flour Mill Manufacturers Play an Importan... Jan 20 Davidbrownn 2
How to Increase The Yield of Crop Without Using... Jan 20 Davidbrownn 1
More from around the web