Guest worker issue may kill immigration reform

Feb 20, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CNN

Editor's note: Ruben Navarrette is a CNN contributor and a nationally syndicated columnist with the Washington Post Writers Group.

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“A Nation of Legal Immigrants”

Since: Nov 07

Lake City Florida,/ Kansas

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#1
Feb 20, 2013
 

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" But it's good news for those who resist legalizing the undocumented
because they're afraid of foreigners -- either because of competition
with their work ethic, or that they're changing the culture and
complexion of the country."

Ruben is like other Hispanic Americans who want to make the whole issue about race.

The true is most Americans resent 11 million illegal aliens breaking our immigration laws by crossing our borders and sitting up housekeeping!

Its sad when politicians and certain segments of our population want to degrade our American Citizenship to the point where it has no meaning or
value.

“JESUS WOULD IMPEACH THE GOP!!!”

Since: May 09

Lake Success, N.Y.

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Feb 20, 2013
 

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Cricket 23 wrote:
" But it's good news for those who resist legalizing the undocumented
because they're afraid of foreigners -- either because of competition
with their work ethic, or that they're changing the culture and
complexion of the country."
Ruben is like other Hispanic Americans who want to make the whole issue about race.
The true is most Americans resent 11 million illegal aliens breaking our immigration laws by crossing our borders and sitting up housekeeping!
Its sad when politicians and certain segments of our population want to degrade our American Citizenship to the point where it has no meaning or
value.
This was in essence made about race - from the Arizona law attempting to to search any individual they deemed may be from Mexico, with their "Papers Please" law.

Work visa's have been issued for a long time for migrant workers to do the agricultural work not a single American wants to do. Case in point;

Georgia implements one of the strictest laws in America regarding illegal or migrant workers. Initial claims were that these people were taking work away from able bodied Americans willing to do said work.

The result?

Georgia farmers make a request to their governor to use inmates as workers, due to their crops rotting in the fields after said legislation was implemented;

"Last year, after Hispanic farm workers fled the state because of a far-reaching anti-immigrant bill the Georgia legislature passed, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) suggested replacing them with inmates. The plan only had mixed success, with many inmates walking off the job early, and farmers still lost millions because of crops that rotted in the field before they could be harvested. "

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/19/4...

So where are all those able bodied Americans in need of work?

They sure aren't knocking on Georgia's farmers doors, that's for sure.

We had a bill - the "Dream" act - which is now being touted by none other than Cantor himself, although he won't use the same verbiage. he did state that the children of illegal immigrants whom know of no other home be given their path to citizenship, and their parents go to the back of the line, pay back taxes and a fine,. learn English - in essence, the exact same bill Obama proposed years ago! And it makes perfect sense.

You, I, and virtually everyone on these forums come from immigrants - if they follow the guidelines set forth, I have no issues whatsoever with a path to citizenship. Maybe you can embellish on why you do?

“Life is short. Enjoy the ride”

Since: Mar 07

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#4
Feb 20, 2013
 

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Cricket 23 wrote:
" But it's good news for those who resist legalizing the undocumented
because they're afraid of foreigners -- either because of competition
with their work ethic, or that they're changing the culture and
complexion of the country."
Ruben is like other Hispanic Americans who want to make the whole issue about race.
The true is most Americans resent 11 million illegal aliens breaking our immigration laws by crossing our borders and sitting up housekeeping!
Its sad when politicians and certain segments of our population want to degrade our American Citizenship to the point where it has no meaning or
value.
Do you know what's sad? Pretending you can't see that what the Republicans want GUARANTEES a GLUT of available labor will continue in the low wage sector for decades to come - holding wages down and causing millions to work at poverty level so that taxpayers will be forced to continue subsidizing labor for business. This is the kind of policy that is killing the middle class in America and causing the gap to widen.

But, you just keep pretending you didn't notice that.
ram50

Valparaiso, IN

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#5
Feb 20, 2013
 

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TonyT1961 wrote:
<quoted text>This was in essence made about race - from the Arizona law attempting to to search any individual they deemed may be from Mexico, with their "Papers Please" law.

Work visa's have been issued for a long time for migrant workers to do the agricultural work not a single American wants to do. Case in point;

Georgia implements one of the strictest laws in America regarding illegal or migrant workers. Initial claims were that these people were taking work away from able bodied Americans willing to do said work.

The result?

Georgia farmers make a request to their governor to use inmates as workers, due to their crops rotting in the fields after said legislation was implemented;

"Last year, after Hispanic farm workers fled the state because of a far-reaching anti-immigrant bill the Georgia legislature passed, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) suggested replacing them with inmates. The plan only had mixed success, with many inmates walking off the job early, and farmers still lost millions because of crops that rotted in the field before they could be harvested. "

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/19/4...

So where are all those able bodied Americans in need of work?

They sure aren't knocking on Georgia's farmers doors, that's for sure.

We had a bill - the "Dream" act - which is now being touted by none other than Cantor himself, although he won't use the same verbiage. he did state that the children of illegal immigrants whom know of no other home be given their path to citizenship, and their parents go to the back of the line, pay back taxes and a fine,. learn English - in essence, the exact same bill Obama proposed years ago! And it makes perfect sense.

You, I, and virtually everyone on these forums come from immigrants - if they follow the guidelines set forth, I have no issues whatsoever with a path to citizenship. Maybe you can embellish on why you do?
No American Citizen embellished anything. The truth is all is embellished by Illegal Aliens to make it okay to break the law! Call us names and make theirselves seem indispensable. CONSTITUTIONAL LAW is the law the President and Elected Leaders take their Oath of Office to defend and Protect!
So what if Offenders have to work in the fields to pay for their keep! They cannot just walk off the fields as they are not free to do so!
Either you think you can keep insulting American educated Citizens by degrading them with untruth and calling them names, you cannot!
The Bible tells Sojourners to follow the laws, pay the same taxes, and pay their own way, yet they are so above the law the lower themselves down to whatever they think it will take! Fake or stolen Identities, Drivers licenses, fake SS numbers, driving illegally and crying foul if ask for papers?
Using tax paid services ILLEGALLY! Now again this!
ram50

Valparaiso, IN

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#6
Feb 20, 2013
 

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Cricket 23 wrote:
" But it's good news for those who resist legalizing the undocumented
because they're afraid of foreigners -- either because of competition
with their work ethic, or that they're changing the culture and
complexion of the country."

Ruben is like other Hispanic Americans who want to make the whole issue about race.

The true is most Americans resent 11 million illegal aliens breaking our immigration laws by crossing our borders and sitting up housekeeping!

Its sad when politicians and certain segments of our population want to degrade our American Citizenship to the point where it has no meaning or
value.
Yah for you and thank you for speaking the truth as not one of them will! It's always someone else or the Citizens causing their problems!
They care not about our laws as they think there all outdated as they are above following them ! It don't fit their agenda again it must be racist!
American gives more visas and green cards then any other Country in the World! We allow more workers to work here in the States then any other Country! These People just buck the systems and laws and blame all but themselves
The Politicians are being bought off by Lobbyist, Businesses and Countries that want cheap labor and no responsible for their (so-call themselves hard worker, family oriented) Citizens! AS WE KNOW, FREE CHILD BIRTH, EDUCATION K-12, MEDICAL CARE, FOOD, MILK, DIAPERS, Section 8 Housing, utilities & ETC on the backs of tax paying, law abiding Citizens!
Do you think a Country would want to get rid of good? Excuses not truths!
They want just AMNESTY with no fines, no back taxes, just as everything else they steal, get AMNESTY FREE! FREE! FREE! While Americans being forced to swallow up their lies, theft, deception, & demands!

NO MORE FREE FOR ANYONE!

“Life is short. Enjoy the ride”

Since: Mar 07

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#7
Feb 20, 2013
 

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ram50 wrote:
<quoted text>
No American Citizen embellished anything. The truth is all is embellished by Illegal Aliens to make it okay to break the law! Call us names and make theirselves seem indispensable. CONSTITUTIONAL LAW is the law the President and Elected Leaders take their Oath of Office to defend and Protect!
So what if Offenders have to work in the fields to pay for their keep! They cannot just walk off the fields as they are not free to do so!
Either you think you can keep insulting American educated Citizens by degrading them with untruth and calling them names, you cannot!
The Bible tells Sojourners to follow the laws, pay the same taxes, and pay their own way, yet they are so above the law the lower themselves down to whatever they think it will take! Fake or stolen Identities, Drivers licenses, fake SS numbers, driving illegally and crying foul if ask for papers?
Using tax paid services ILLEGALLY! Now again this!
Business and government complicity make it "okay" for illegal immigrants to be working and living in America.

If businesses didn't provide them jobs and government didn't turn it's back on the laws already in place, they wouldn't be here. They've been invited in and provided the resources to make the place "home". What part of that escapes your notice? If somebody puts some steaks on the grill, waves at you and smiles and then goes back in the house, and you're ravenous, and you walk over by the steaks and they come out of the house and smile and wave, gesture toward the grill, and go back inside, you'll probably eat the steak seeing as how nobody seems to object, and it sure looks like they want you to have it. There was even a time before the housing collapse when American contractors went directly into Mexico and hired their crews for the coming season and made arrangements with a local who guaranteed a crew would show up - and, they did. See San Diego for further details.

Besides. In 1986, we sent word to the world at large that if you just got over a border or overstayed a visa long enough, eventually the USA would see that you got to become a citizen one day and could retire in the land of Social Security and Medicare. Why wait for a legal visa?

Sheesh.

Since: Jun 11

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Feb 20, 2013
 

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Guest workers is another scam. Once they come here they never leave cuz they know obozo will let them stay in violation of our laws.

“Life is short. Enjoy the ride”

Since: Mar 07

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Feb 20, 2013
 

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Speeders Kill Kids wrote:
Guest workers is another scam. Once they come here they never leave cuz they know obozo will let them stay in violation of our laws.
But, of course you read the article and understand that it's the Republicans who say "no way" to Immigration Reform that does not include an expanded guest worker program, right?

So, where does that leave us?

Let's start again. Congress and business do not give a ratz' azz about American labor. They serve business interests first and foremost while Americans divide themselves into "groups" and fight over the crumbs while hating on each other.

Business and Congress (also the investor class) laugh all the way to the bank at just how stupid we are.

Stop hating people just trying to survive and start focusing on how the people who sit in office are bought and paid for before the first day on the job by corporate America.

Identify Third Party candidates with some integrity who weren't born with silver spoons in their mouths and work your behinds off to help people who understand your issues get elected. One guy or girl at a time is how we do it. Stop letting people tell you a Third Party candidate can't get elected. If a candidate gets a lot of air time, that's the one who is already bought. Just keep reading and looking. Everytime we do that, we send a signal to other good Americans that they CAN get elected and they don't have to have a huge campaign chest - just really decent values and integrity. If a candidate won't answer your questions, pass.

“JESUS WOULD IMPEACH THE GOP!!!”

Since: May 09

Lake Success, N.Y.

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#12
Feb 20, 2013
 

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ram50 wrote:
<quoted text>
No American Citizen embellished anything. The truth is all is embellished by Illegal Aliens to make it okay to break the law! Call us names and make theirselves seem indispensable. CONSTITUTIONAL LAW is the law the President and Elected Leaders take their Oath of Office to defend and Protect!
So what if Offenders have to work in the fields to pay for their keep! They cannot just walk off the fields as they are not free to do so!
Either you think you can keep insulting American educated Citizens by degrading them with untruth and calling them names, you cannot!
The Bible tells Sojourners to follow the laws, pay the same taxes, and pay their own way, yet they are so above the law the lower themselves down to whatever they think it will take! Fake or stolen Identities, Drivers licenses, fake SS numbers, driving illegally and crying foul if ask for papers?
Using tax paid services ILLEGALLY! Now again this!
You obviously have a severe comprehension problem I see / you must be the same fool who argued with McCain, looking simply angry, and with no reason to be.

Again, WHY DID ALL THOSE AMERICAN WORKERS WHO WERE SUPPOSEDLY WILLING TO DO THIS WORK, NOT APPLYING FOR THOSE JOBS WHEN THE ILLEGALS WERE REMOVED?

Having issues arguing that one? Here's something maybe your limited mentality MAY comprehend;

Farmers crops are 90% federally insured - meaning, when their crops rot, they don't lose much / when they harvest, it's obviously a win for the farmers, but here's what you don't comprehend - migrant workers are paid shit wages, are not eligible for Workers Comp if injured, Social Security, etc.

If those same farmers hired ON THE BOOKS WORKERS, the price of your produce would quadruple - but, in your simple world, give the farmers free workers / prisoners - do they drop their prices when they get this free labor? Hell no!

Get an education - even a rudimentary education would suffice - before coming on these threads. And learn how to spell - that would be #1 on my hit parade if I were you.
Detective Frito

San Diego, CA

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Feb 20, 2013
 

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Nym8387 wrote:
As if it ever had a chance of passing
You never had a chance passing kindergarten.
Detective Frito

San Diego, CA

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#17
Feb 21, 2013
 

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Nym8387 wrote:
<quoted text>and you never had any intention of showing up,lol
You live in Bridgeport CT, two and half hours away by car, from a schoolyard you named in the Bronx, Columbus HS to be exact. Now, who in their right mind would ever think that you'd travel that far, just to get your rump kicked and put in jail, Lou?
Detective Frito

San Diego, CA

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#19
Feb 21, 2013
 

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Nym8387 wrote:
<quoted text>you could live next to me and you still wouldn't come out,that's why you had no choice but to start talking about calling the cops like a rat,even though you started with the threats.
Forget the cops. You're gonna need a lawyer, when I get through with you. You started it and the evidence is there.
spud

United States

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Feb 21, 2013
 

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Speeders Kill Kids wrote:
Guest workers is another scam. Once they come here they never leave cuz they know obozo will let them stay in violation of our laws.
You're right. These plans are all jive trying to convince the American people that a new plan is the only way to solve our illegal alien problem. If anything gets passed you can bet neither party has any intention of enforcing its provisions.
spud

United States

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Feb 21, 2013
 

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There's really not much difference whether you flood the labor market with illegal aliens or guest workers. Both will result in driving many low and middle class wages down. It's just that a guest worker program gives the impression of some kind of legal procedure and control.
ram50

Valparaiso, IN

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Feb 21, 2013
 

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NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Business and government complicity make it "okay" for illegal immigrants to be working and living in America.

If businesses didn't provide them jobs and government didn't turn it's back on the laws already in place, they wouldn't be here. They've been invited in and provided the resources to make the place "home". What part of that escapes your notice? If somebody puts some steaks on the grill, waves at you and smiles and then goes back in the house, and you're ravenous, and you walk over by the steaks and they come out of the house and smile and wave, gesture toward the grill, and go back inside, you'll probably eat the steak seeing as how nobody seems to object, and it sure looks like they want you to have it. There was even a time before the housing collapse when American contractors went directly into Mexico and hired their crews for the coming season and made arrangements with a local who guaranteed a crew would show up - and, they did. See San Diego for further details.

Besides. In 1986, we sent word to the world at large that if you just got over a border or overstayed a visa long enough, eventually the USA would see that you got to become a citizen one day and could retire in the land of Social Security and Medicare. Why wait for a legal visa?

Sheesh.
Sorry, I am not ravenous and have followed the facts since a promise was made an 1986 of never giving another AMNESTY.
I am a Christian, law abiding tax Citizen, and I do not eat steak.
Your are another one that is resigned to reducing American Citizens to nothing to help Illegal Aliens SOJOURNERS (words of the BIBLE) achieve AMNESTY!
You seem to agree with Illegal Aliens, oh! it's okay to break the law, steal IDS, breaking laws is right as long as Businesses and the Federal and State ignore it and when it BANKRUPTS a State and the finally fights back, they can just move to the next one!
The Bible has laws for this: Read Leviticus, or are another Atheist that believe on no law for certain people!
ram50

Valparaiso, IN

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Feb 21, 2013
 

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TonyT1961 wrote:
<quoted text>You obviously have a severe comprehension problem I see / you must be the same fool who argued with McCain, looking simply angry, and with no reason to be.

Again, WHY DID ALL THOSE AMERICAN WORKERS WHO WERE SUPPOSEDLY WILLING TO DO THIS WORK, NOT APPLYING FOR THOSE JOBS WHEN THE ILLEGALS WERE REMOVED?

Having issues arguing that one? Here's something maybe your limited mentality MAY comprehend;

Farmers crops are 90% federally insured - meaning, when their crops rot, they don't lose much / when they harvest, it's obviously a win for the farmers, but here's what you don't comprehend - migrant workers are paid shit wages, are not eligible for Workers Comp if injured, Social Security, etc.

If those same farmers hired ON THE BOOKS WORKERS, the price of your produce would quadruple - but, in your simple world, give the farmers free workers / prisoners - do they drop their prices when they get this free labor? Hell no!

Get an education - even a rudimentary education would suffice - before coming on these threads. And learn how to spell - that would be #1 on my hit parade if I were you.
No one said Prisoner labor if free labor as Prison is paid for by TAX PAYING CITIZENS! It is a way to make them contribute to their own cost and maybe a little of their keep!

Nothing is FREE for American Citizens and our cost are inflated tremendously because of this hoopla bull lies and deceit brought over our borders!

Maybe you should educate yourself as American Citizens live it every day and are sick and tired of the name calling, the cost, and the games/lies played to get more FREEBEES and not have show papers (proof) that we have to show!

“JESUS WOULD IMPEACH THE GOP!!!”

Since: May 09

Lake Success, N.Y.

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#25
Feb 21, 2013
 

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ram50 wrote:
<quoted text>
No one said Prisoner labor if free labor as Prison is paid for by TAX PAYING CITIZENS! It is a way to make them contribute to their own cost and maybe a little of their keep!
Nothing is FREE for American Citizens and our cost are inflated tremendously because of this hoopla bull lies and deceit brought over our borders!
Maybe you should educate yourself as American Citizens live it every day and are sick and tired of the name calling, the cost, and the games/lies played to get more FREEBEES and not have show papers (proof) that we have to show!
You ramble on, yet do not answer any questions put forth to you.

Forget it / I hav better things to do than argue with an idiot.

“Life is short. Enjoy the ride”

Since: Mar 07

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#26
Feb 21, 2013
 

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ram50 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, I am not ravenous and have followed the facts since a promise was made an 1986 of never giving another AMNESTY.
I am a Christian, law abiding tax Citizen, and I do not eat steak.
Your are another one that is resigned to reducing American Citizens to nothing to help Illegal Aliens SOJOURNERS (words of the BIBLE) achieve AMNESTY!
You seem to agree with Illegal Aliens, oh! it's okay to break the law, steal IDS, breaking laws is right as long as Businesses and the Federal and State ignore it and when it BANKRUPTS a State and the finally fights back, they can just move to the next one!
The Bible has laws for this: Read Leviticus, or are another Atheist that believe on no law for certain people!
Wrong. I don't agree with illegal aliens, but neither do I focus my attention on them as being the cause of the problem. You can dislike them all you want, scream "Go home!" at the top of your lungs, but as long as life it better here than from whence they came, they'll just shrug and ignore you and go on about life.

I would like to see a compromise solution that is better for Americans and legal immigrants than what's on the plate today. If you want my take on what we can do that would help:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...

Read the FIRST FOUR POSTS on the thread for "The Proposal".
ram50

Valparaiso, IN

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Feb 21, 2013
 

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NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong. I don't agree with illegal aliens, but neither do I focus my attention on them as being the cause of the problem. You can dislike them all you want, scream "Go home!" at the top of your lungs, but as long as life it better here than from whence they came, they'll just shrug and ignore you and go on about life.

I would like to see a compromise solution that is better for Americans and legal immigrants than what's on the plate today. If you want my take on what we can do that would help:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...

Read the FIRST FOUR POSTS on the thread for "The Proposal".
It just figures, just more criticizing and demonizing feeling and thoughts of others! Righteous above all others, the law, and Government.
sickofit

Owatonna, MN

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Feb 21, 2013
 

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Round up deport all ilegals and cancel ALL work visa,s. DONE OVER ---AMERICAN JOBS FOR AMERICANS.....

I am sick of every other doctor I see not being to understand them talk..

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