Brazilian archbishop in hot seat after claiming more Catholics ...

Full story: Chicago Tribune

A Roman Catholic archbishop whose statements about the Holocaust have come under fire met with Jewish leaders this week to clarify his claim that Jewish domination of the media has obscured the toll of non-Jews killed by the Nazis.
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Much ado about nothing

United States

#1 Apr 2, 2009
When I was growing up, many years ago, historical texts at the time typically stated that 12 million died in the camps, of which 6 million were Jews. The remainder were Poles, Ukranians; homosexuals, cripples, the mentally ill; anyone the Nazis felt were subhuman or undesirable. I've often felt in recent decades that Jews did the other victims a disservice by stressing the number of Jews killed to the exclusion of all the others. And surely enough, in recent years, the only number one has heard was the oft-repeated number of 6 million Jews; the others have been forgotten.

I'm not saying the Archbishop is correct, but I wonder just how much the historical record has been corrupted by precisely the factors he cites. The Jews were not the only victims; historical texts from the 60's record a much higher, inclusive number than 6 million. I'm not denigrating the persecution of Jews under the Nazis, but they weren't the only ones, and focusing only on their numbers has resulted in a dilution of the suffering of others. It would better serve the memory of humanity as a whole to remember the total number, not just the Jews. Otherwise, eventually, the less publicized victims will indeed be forgotten, as has in fact happened in recent decades.
jmmartin

United States

#2 Apr 2, 2009
Jews love to play the victims while they push their own agenda on the world scene. Say anything else and you will be attacked if not silenced.
chairman steele

Orlando, FL

#3 Apr 3, 2009
The main target of the Nazi regime were the Jews. Their elimination from Europe was Hitler's main purpose. The others were collateral damage. Jews playing the victims, some say? Check newspapers in American cities in the 20th century and you will find ads excluding jews from housing and employment! Walk those shoes before you talk crap!
wow

Tiverton, RI

#4 Apr 3, 2009
Maybe politics is not the church’s forte. Maybe religion is the place they need to concentrate there efforts.
Much ado about nothing

United States

#5 Apr 3, 2009
chairman steele wrote:
The main target of the Nazi regime were the Jews. Their elimination from Europe was Hitler's main purpose. The others were collateral damage...

So. 6 million Jews - victims. 6 million others - collateral damage. And so there is no need to remember or honor their suffering and deaths - because they didn't happen to be Jewish? And the total number constantly harped on in the press doesn't need to include them - being non-Jews, they were subhuman after all, it seems.

By this logic, Hitler was only half as bad as he was 50 years ago. I guess he wasn't so bad after all, eh?

How would the Jewish community react if their 6 million dead were referred to as 'collateral damage'? I suspect we'd never hear the end of it, and anyone foolish enough to utter the thought would be hounded from public view.

Sorry, but I'd say your statement proves the Archbishop's point beyond a shadow of doubt.
funny

Newington, CT

#6 Apr 3, 2009
chairman steele wrote:
The main target of the Nazi regime were the Jews. Their elimination from Europe was Hitler's main purpose. The others were collateral damage. Jews playing the victims, some say? Check newspapers in American cities in the 20th century and you will find ads excluding jews from housing and employment! Walk those shoes before you talk crap!
stop playing the victim and get over it. there were may holocausts but the jews whine the most sbout thiers. it's quite an industry now
funny

Newington, CT

#7 Apr 3, 2009
about
Sensible

United States

#8 Apr 3, 2009
chairman steele wrote:
The main target of the Nazi regime were the Jews. Their elimination from Europe was Hitler's main purpose. The others were collateral damage. Jews playing the victims, some say? Check newspapers in American cities in the 20th century and you will find ads excluding jews from housing and employment! Walk those shoes before
you talk crap!
You are right that Jews were singled out for being Jewish, and the round number of 6 million is correct, by any objective analysis.

The discrimination against Jews exists in many sectors to this day, although Jewish-Christian relations are vastly better than in the past. Imagine a German Pope going to a synagogue in NY and getting warmly greeted, as occurred last year.

Most Jews I know readily acknowledge that others died in the holocaust, in massive numbers.

Your use of "collateral damage" is most unfortunate. It makes it sound like they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. You do trivialize that loss, whether you understand it or not.

You should apologize for that use. Otherwise you have created a distraction on the issue of the holocaust.

A lot of non Jews put their foot in their mouths when they discuss the nuances of the holocaust. You just put your foot in your mouth, and can easily get it out.

Please do so.
Mike Brown

Howland, ME

#9 Apr 3, 2009
This is AS I SEE IT, by Mike "Mainer Mike" Brown.

Don't get me wrong, what the Jews went through thanks to Hitler and his supporters was horrible, and I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who lived in those death camps during World War 2.

Howver, I hate it when the call it The Holocaust, as if to say that it was the only Holocaust.

How about what happened in the 1990's in Yugoslavia? Or the Armenian Holocaust? And don't forget what Stalin did to his own people when he was in power in Russia.

These are just some examples of other mass murders that have happened over the course of human history.

No doubt, the Jewish Holocaust should be recognized.

But it wasn't the only Holocaust.

That's AS I SEE IT. I'm Mike "Mainer Mike" Brown.
MANY NON JEWS PARISHED

New York, NY

#10 Apr 3, 2009
He is correct not only Jews died during the Holocaust.

Christians are the forgotten ones.

http://remember.org/forgotten/
Oh Really Factor

Brooklyn, NY

#11 Apr 3, 2009
It's amazing how hany idiots are in positions of authority in the Catholic church.
vanessa maria

South River, NJ

#12 Apr 3, 2009
Sensible wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right that Jews were singled out for being Jewish, and the round number of 6 million is correct, by any objective analysis.
The discrimination against Jews exists in many sectors to this day, although Jewish-Christian relations are vastly better than in the past. Imagine a German Pope going to a synagogue in NY and getting warmly greeted, as occurred last year.
Most Jews I know readily acknowledge that others died in the holocaust, in massive numbers.
Your use of "collateral damage" is most unfortunate. It makes it sound like they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. You do trivialize that loss, whether you understand it or not.
You should apologize for that use. Otherwise you have created a distraction on the issue of the holocaust.
A lot of non Jews put their foot in their mouths when they discuss the nuances of the holocaust. You just put your foot in your mouth, and can easily get it out.
Please do so.
Jewish are palying the same game in palestine , killing innocent helpless people and kids( of course after occupying their country ) and they gat help from the states ( 3 billion dollars a year, WELLFARE STATE ).Mr Hitler knew some thing about them that we did not know about.
Oh Really Factor

Brooklyn, NY

#13 Apr 3, 2009
Much ado about nothing wrote:
When I was growing up, many years ago, historical texts at the time typically stated that 12 million died in the camps, of which 6 million were Jews. The remainder were Poles, Ukranians; homosexuals, cripples, the mentally ill; anyone the Nazis felt were subhuman or undesirable. I've often felt in recent decades that Jews did the other victims a disservice by stressing the number of Jews killed to the exclusion of all the others. And surely enough, in recent years, the only number one has heard was the oft-repeated number of 6 million Jews; the others have been forgotten.
I'm not saying the Archbishop is correct, but I wonder just how much the historical record has been corrupted by precisely the factors he cites. The Jews were not the only victims; historical texts from the 60's record a much higher, inclusive number than 6 million. I'm not denigrating the persecution of Jews under the Nazis, but they weren't the only ones, and focusing only on their numbers has resulted in a dilution of the suffering of others. It would better serve the memory of humanity as a whole to remember the total number, not just the Jews. Otherwise, eventually, the less publicized victims will indeed be forgotten, as has in fact happened in recent decades.
What you say is true, and look at how many Gypsies were kille too, but the truth remains that the Jewish people in Europe suffered horribly, and you can't blame Jews for not wanting the world to forget that. Who is teaching the history of how other groups suffered. It's important that we remember them too.
vanessa maria

South River, NJ

#14 Apr 3, 2009
Mike Brown wrote:
This is AS I SEE IT, by Mike "Mainer Mike" Brown.
Don't get me wrong, what the Jews went through thanks to Hitler and his supporters was horrible, and I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who lived in those death camps during World War 2.
Howver, I hate it when the call it The Holocaust, as if to say that it was the only Holocaust.
How about what happened in the 1990's in Yugoslavia? Or the Armenian Holocaust? And don't forget what Stalin did to his own people when he was in power in Russia.
These are just some examples of other mass murders that have happened over the course of human history.
No doubt, the Jewish Holocaust should be recognized.
But it wasn't the only Holocaust.
That's AS I SEE IT. I'm Mike "Mainer Mike" Brown.
I agree withn you, few jewish were killed in ww2. Why ? Mr Hitler knows.
Herbert Hitler

Springfield, MA

#15 Apr 3, 2009
Oh Really Factor wrote:
It's amazing how hany idiots are in positions of authority in the Catholic church.
You sound like a Protestant.We Catholics have a saying.The Protestants made their own religion and they made it easy.
vanessa maria

South River, NJ

#16 Apr 3, 2009
funny wrote:
<quoted text>
stop playing the victim and get over it. there were may holocausts but the jews whine the most sbout thiers. it's quite an industry now
Everyone is tired of hearing the same word again and again ( Playing the last card ). Get out from Palestine and stop killing people their and let the Deported come back to their country and liberate the 100.000 palestenian prisonners, and ........

Isarel Sucks man.
Oh Really Factor

Brooklyn, NY

#17 Apr 3, 2009
Mike Brown wrote:
This is AS I SEE IT, by Mike "Mainer Mike" Brown.
Don't get me wrong, what the Jews went through thanks to Hitler and his supporters was horrible, and I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who lived in those death camps during World War 2.
Howver, I hate it when the call it The Holocaust, as if to say that it was the only Holocaust.
How about what happened in the 1990's in Yugoslavia? Or the Armenian Holocaust? And don't forget what Stalin did to his own people when he was in power in Russia.
These are just some examples of other mass murders that have happened over the course of human history.
No doubt, the Jewish Holocaust should be recognized.
But it wasn't the only Holocaust.
That's AS I SEE IT. I'm Mike "Mainer Mike" Brown.
What our own country did to Native Americans was shameful, cruel and unjust too. You can't compare human cruelties to each other. To each group, the suffering of their relatives and ancestors is a deep painful wound that needs to be remmbered. What saddens me most is that today, in Darfur, this suffering continues today and we hardly do anything to help. Did we learn anything at all from the past?
Give Credit

Bethlehem, PA

#18 Apr 3, 2009
If all these other victims "need to be remembered", then why has no one but the Jewish people been promoting the rememberence of Halocaust victims all these years?
Oh Really Factor

Brooklyn, NY

#19 Apr 3, 2009
Herbert Hitler wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound like a Protestant.We Catholics have a saying.The Protestants made their own religion and they made it easy.
No, actually I was raised Catholic, but I don't practice that religion. I think your post reveals your arrogant attitude. Your superior attitude is how all of this horrible history gets rooted. One group thinks it's better than another. It's a very slippery and dangerous slope.

“Quality is always an accident”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#20 Apr 3, 2009
vanessa maria wrote:
<quoted text>Everyone is tired of hearing the same word again and again ( Playing the last card ). Get out from Palestine and stop killing people their and let the Deported come back to their country and liberate the 100.000 palestenian prisonners, and ........
Isarel Sucks man.
It's funny to see a Joo hater Troll catch another of its kind.

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