Green job scam, a warning for HERS/RESNET Energy Rater training classes.

[David]

The RESNET provider “CGE Solution Inc”, a company belonging to RESNET’s Treasurer and board member, filed for bankruptcy on 08/24/2010.

This board member is now listed on RESNET’s website to be representing the company “Mid-Atlantic Building Technology Center Virginia”.

A google search on “Mid-Atlantic Building Technology Center Virginia” only gives two hits, both from RESNET’s own website. Does this company exist? If it existed, a google search would give hits that would easily confirm its existence.

This provider “CGE Solution Inc” had a de facto monopoly on selling rater training classes in VA, DC and MD and sold them until the day it filed for bankruptcy. They required payment in advance so the question is how many people lost their prepaid class fees in this bankruptcy? Or were they not able to sell “training classes” anymore? Or is this bankruptcy just a way for them to cheat their creditors? Anybody knows what’s going on?

What other “training providers” are next to file for bankruptcy? When even a “provider” owned by a board member of RESNET and having been granted an area monopoly, files for bankruptcy, the conclusion must be that this organization is on shaky ground. Is it the last breaths of RESNET we are witnessing?

[HERS Training Provider]

Hi. We're HERS Training Providers. We would be happy to answer any questions folks have about HERS Training. For more info on how to become a HERS rater, or to contact us, please visit our website: http://homeenergypartners.com/pages/training/...

[Mike in WV]

Forget RESNET - Go with BPI if you want a job. But a word of advice - if you haven't got any experience good luck unless you go into business for yourself. All the ARRA jobs are filled and that program will end soon. I got lucky - but then I got in two years ago.

I took the RESNET passed it with flying colors and ran into problems finding insurance. My trainer is also a provider - he is on the RESNET BOD. His son runs the training business and is a total tool. RESNET passed an "arms length" policy where the rater cannot be the same person as the one who does the construction. Looks good on paper but youre right - its a scam. The provider gets around that by simply forming multiple corporations.

Self training for the BPI or RESNET tests are simple - contact Saturn Resource Management, INC and you can do it online. To get experience apply with a Community Action Agency or any other organization in your area that provides services for the DOE's Weatherization Assistance Program. and be prepared to get dirty. But you'll learn more here than anywhere.

[Inspector Monte]

I am certified by the BPI (Buildings Performance Institute, Inc.) as a Building Analyste and Envelope Professional to do "building as a whole" energy efficiency audits. I paid for the training that I received for the two classes, as well as the exams (written and field testing) about 16 months ago.

So, you don't need RESNET HERS rater. Originally, RESNET was the certification for new construction and BPI was for retrofitting existing construction. Now they are supposedly coming together. However, it is a big monopoly and all of these entities make it all sound great before and during the training.

I am a licensed NY Home inspector, so being the Green Inspector of AT HOME INSPECTIONS, INC. I am always looking to add ancillary services in what I believe in, so I did become an Auditor. However, what BPI really wants, along with NYSERDA, the organization that has cornered the market on obtaining flow through incentives for clients and businesses, is not just auditors; but performance contractors who can do the audit (test in, do the upgrades or retrofitting of air sealing, insulation, HVAC, etc and then the test-out).

When I was going through the program, I was told that there was plenty of work and wouldn't be a problem doing the audits and making the recommendations. However, I cannot have my company accredited by BPI unless I do have my GC (General Contractor) license and are set up to do the work as well. As an Auditor, I purchased all of the equipment needed (Blower door system, combustion analyzers and detectors, infrared camera, etc) and I have been performing Energy Efficiency Audits. However, my clients wanted me to perform the work based on my recommendations made. At this time I am not set up to do this. I am trying to collaborate with a contractor or two.

So, forget about RESNET and take the BPI Training, I recommend through www.CleanEdison.com . Tell them that I referred you- Debra Monte of At Home Inspections, Inc in NYC. You pay, you train in the class room, you train in the field (at a house) and then test online in classroom and then field test in a house, you get your certification and you can do energy audits. You are required to get continued education credits, which is a good thing. Also go to www.BPI.org

I hope this has been helpful, I didn't have much luck with RESNET but I didn't pursue it since I made my decision to go with BPI. Good luck and if anyone wants to ask any other questions, contact me at [e-mail]

[Inspector Monte]

I am certified by the BPI (Buildings Performance Institute, Inc.) as a Building Analyste and Envelope Professional to do "building as a whole" energy efficiency audits. I paid for the training that I received for the two classes, as well as the exams (written and field testing) about 16 months ago.
So, you don't need RESNET HERS rater. Originally, RESNET was the certification for new construction and BPI was for retrofitting existing construction. Now they are supposedly coming together. However, it is a big monopoly and all of these entities make it all sound great before and during the training.
I am a licensed NY Home inspector, so being the Green Inspector of AT HOME INSPECTIONS, INC. I am always looking to add ancillary services in what I believe in, so I did become an Auditor. However, what BPI really wants, along with NYSERDA, the organization that has cornered the market on obtaining flow through incentives for clients and businesses, is not just auditors; but performance contractors who can do the audit (test in, do the upgrades or retrofitting of air sealing, insulation, HVAC, etc and then the test-out).
When I was going through the program, I was told that there was plenty of work and wouldn't be a problem doing the audits and making the recommendations. However, I cannot have my company accredited by BPI unless I do have my GC (General Contractor) license and are set up to do the work as well. As an Auditor, I purchased all of the equipment needed (Blower door system, combustion analyzers and detectors, infrared camera, etc) and I have been performing Energy Efficiency Audits. However, my clients wanted me to perform the work based on my recommendations made. At this time I am not set up to do this. I am trying to collaborate with a contractor or two.
So, forget about RESNET and take the BPI Training, I recommend through www.CleanEdison.com . Tell them that I referred you- Debra Monte of At Home Inspections, Inc in NYC. You pay, you train in the class room, you train in the field (at a house) and then test online in classroom and then field test in a house, you get your certification and you can do energy audits. You are required to get continued education credits, which is a good thing. Also go to www.BPI.org
I hope this has been helpful, I didn't have much luck with RESNET but I didn't pursue it since I made my decision to go with BPI. Good luck and if anyone wants to ask any other questions, contact me at [e-mail]
I think taking the classroom training is important and it incorporates the field training, which is lacking when you do it online. However, getting the materials ahead of time and reading them is a good idea.

[Barry Schultz Sr]

The saying.. we are going to need hundreds of raters. has proven to be false. My son and I cross trained into building science in 2007, As a plumbing contractor seeing things slowing down, We cross train into this field because our great state of Idaho and the testing companies (resnet,BPI EPA) said there was a demand for raters. What a bunch of bull!$50,000 dollars later, still no work worth talking about. As long as our political people both federal and state take money from the utilities, big gas and oil people, energy efficiency, and saving people money is not a priority to the feds or to lots of states that are broke. Yes its a great idea, and it works. But that is common sense. The powers to be don't use common sense. I'm tired of waiting. Everything is for sale.Heck in this state even adopting the new building and energy codes don't mean a thing. They are not even enforcing their own codes. So why have them. If you are thinking about getting into building science as a rater. You better think twice. The jobs are far and few. Don't be taken in on all the hoop la.Save your money because you will need it--

[Gary Neal]

I've got a buddy who does phase 1 environmental site assessments and he says that more and more people are turning to him for help with their environmental sites. What do you guys think? http://www.savvyinspections.com

[Solyndra4ever]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...

This guy Carols Arandia who is mentioned in the Washington Post article (see link above) has obtained no less than SEVEN(!!) green "certificates" and they did not bring him anything other than expenses. Obviously, he has been snookered by these schemes. Nobody cares about those toilet paper "certificates". The whole thing is a boondoggle

Carols Arandia, 59, has earned seven green jobs certificates since beginning classes this year, while renting a room from a friend to weather the hard times.

But now, after nearly two years of being out of work and a series of classes that have not led to a job, his optimism is dimming.

"What is the point of giving somebody the tools to do something but to have nowhere to use them?" he asked. "I think it's a great program, but I don't see the connection with all the training and jobs. And I need a job."

[GreenEnergy]

I am a certified HERS Rater who in 2010 passed the course, used the company that taught the course as my provider, got certified, and then went out "on the market" as a HERS Rater. What looked like a pretty good deal at first turned out to be pretty disappointing. The trouble I have with the HERS/RESNET/HERS provider system is as follows:

1) Other than REM/Rate software, what exactly does the provider actually PROVIDE? You pay them annually, but they offer no leads, and don't really do a whole lot for you when you have questions for them when doing a rating.
2) You have to pay your provider $400 or so every year just to continue to be a certified rater, then, if you're lucky enough to find ratings to do, you have to pay them $75 for every rating they review.
3) Energy Star just went to Version 3.0, so now, in order to do Energy Star 3.0 ratings, you have to take a $400 course, and hopefully pass it.
4) If you are dissatisfied with your provider, you can switch to another one, but it's going to cost you another $400.
5) On top of all this, RESNET Membership, though voluntary, costs $200 a year.
6) Unlike BPI, RESNET does not have certification cards that show to clients and builders that you are certified. This is despite the fact that BPI doesn't require you to have a provider, doesn't charge you to be a BPI member, and does a much better job of explaining their continuing education requirements.

So to summarize, in my opinion, HERS/RESNET, if not a scam, is at the very least a money pit; a system rigged to make money for those at the top, and take money from those new to the field and looking for new jobs in green energy.

[Tom]

"most raters could not make a decent living as a rater"

That is what resnet says in October 2011, see:

https://www.energyratings.org/calendar/event....

GreenEnergy wrote:

I am a certified HERS Rater who in 2010 passed the course, used the company that taught the course as my provider, got certified, and then went out "on the market" as a HERS Rater. What looked like a pretty good deal at first turned out to be pretty disappointing. The trouble I have with the HERS/RESNET/HERS provider system is as follows:
1) Other than REM/Rate software, what exactly does the provider actually PROVIDE? You pay them annually, but they offer no leads, and don't really do a whole lot for you when you have questions for them when doing a rating.
2) You have to pay your provider $400 or so every year just to continue to be a certified rater, then, if you're lucky enough to find ratings to do, you have to pay them $75 for every rating they review.
3) Energy Star just went to Version 3.0, so now, in order to do Energy Star 3.0 ratings, you have to take a $400 course, and hopefully pass it.
4) If you are dissatisfied with your provider, you can switch to another one, but it's going to cost you another $400.
5) On top of all this, RESNET Membership, though voluntary, costs $200 a year.
6) Unlike BPI, RESNET does not have certification cards that show to clients and builders that you are certified. This is despite the fact that BPI doesn't require you to have a provider, doesn't charge you to be a BPI member, and does a much better job of explaining their continuing education requirements.
So to summarize, in my opinion, HERS/RESNET, if not a scam, is at the very least a money pit; a system rigged to make money for those at the top, and take money from those new to the field and looking for new jobs in green energy.

[Dan P]

I know personally a man that is part of the contracting company that oversees and verifies EnergyStar homes for US Government. They're contracted by the government to verify Energystar rated homes. This man told me back in October 2011 when the Congress was talking about not funding or cutting the governments budget that the EPA and the DEA possibly going to the cut on EnergyStar program. EnergyStar raters are Resnet Certified raters one and the same. Any RESNET HERS Rater that denies the link to the Energystar program and the EPA/DEA funding of it for promoting and regulating is lying. I got it straight from the horse mouth.

[Dan P]

Energystar with EPA and DEA is a back door to more government regulation and intrustion into our society controlling every aspect of our world. Just like they pass taxes because of the children you know the line. Here its because of the environment. Same thing different line make you feel back if your not as green as the next guy. Please do not miss understand I am for clean water and efficiency and saving etc. But there is a scarlet thread from Washington on the regulating of every aspect of our lives I do not like. When I went thru RESNET certification training and passed in 2008 great teacher and program. But I saw it then that it was designed that the government was the power behind making compliance by regulating and it scared me never said much to anyone then but I saw it. With out government regulating and pushing compliance EnergyStar dies. Instructor was pumped about the program and the government. The government was definitely needed to make this work and not fade away. It wasn't that the banks will see the benefits and the builder will see the benefits or the buyer will see the benefits. Some maybe true but the reality was the government would make it the law in building code and regulation

[Dan P]

Just another thought. The comment about it beingh a scam it remains me of the AMWAY pyramid how the people on the bottom IE Raters are beating the bushs for crumbs. 5 Raters trying to get 20 house which doesn't translate into much on average. A few make it. But the Providers always make it. There the big winners like AMWAY used to be.A few that get everyone under them and they make off everyone under them plus sell some themselves. Any difference not reality. A government authorized pyramid scheme of sorts. All because of the enviroment and if you don't go along your bad people and not as good as the green people are. Please no one wants dirty water dirty air or wasting energy. Its a scam and controlling mechanism and Resnet is a tool and vehicle for the EPA/DEA to accomplish it

[Mr morris]

My perspective as a HERS rater and BPI building analyst is that both programs are corrupt. Both programs are set up to make the large, training oorganization money.
You can't make any money unless you are using the program to sell a product or a service.
Honest, hardworking people that want to help people save money find another job.

[RAD]

Can someone enlighten me concerning the value of HERS training again?

Its great knowledge...woo-hoo...

How do you make money to actually turn a profit after the expense of the silly training and equipment purchase?

JJACK660 wrote:

Hey everyone,
I havent read all the posts on here because they all seem to run together so im just going to jump in here and make a quick point. I am a HERS rater. I went through the tough week of in-class training. Then I did my provisional ratings, passed the RESNET test and have selected a provider. The entire process was not easy and it took about six months to complete but thats the value in the program. The classes are set up to help even the people with no building science knowledge have a good chance at becoming a rater. I have been in some form of building for years. I have also had other formal training in energy/building science programs and im here to tell ya the value in the program is fact that only the ones that apply themselves acheive a certification. It is pricey and it does feel like jumping through loops sometimes BUT if it was easy there would be NO value in what we do as raters. Now that being said please dont just go with the first training provider you come across. Do the research look for a provider that has policies that fit your particular goals and get some numbers of some of their raters and ask them some questions. i have taken several classes and have a BPI cert as well as my HERS along with a few other beyond code programs and I'm here to tell you its not easy... none of it is going to be given to you with out some studying and some hard work. So if it is important to you and it is what you want to do and are willing to work for it do it, just please dont BS through the system and de-value the energy industry. The purpose for the hard work is the value of the finished product. As for me and my opinion I want to see more qualified raters out there so if you aren't in this industry for the right reasons please go find something easier to do that doesnt affect peoples image of energy professionals. We dont need to lower the bar or make it easy for the people that dont have their heart in it. thanks

[ddvan]

Wow, just stumbled on to this forum and it has been quite enlightening. We are a rating company that has been around for a few years and this past year became a rating provider. For us, it seemed to be the logical next step in growth for the company and we were able to pass on the savings of the provider fee to our clients. We are not interested in becoming a training provider and after reading some of these posts, sounds like that was a good decision. We have made the decision not to partner with any raters that we would be competing with - that only seems to make sense. Essentially, that means we will be offering services to other parts of the state and in our region of the states. It is disheartening to read some of this, because we are truly trying to do the right thing and run a business with integrity. I will now be doing some more digging around to find out what is acutally going on in this industry. Thanks for the information.

[Gary C - HVAC]

Wow! I was considering the BPI Courses and paying the $1795 for a one week course to certification with 411. I'm now going to do much more research than I planned based on the info on this site.
Thanks for the insight!!!!!