Kirk Hinrich leads Bulls over Bucks, 113-104

The Bulls ' bus ride to Wisconsin on Wednesday afternoon sounded quiet for reasons beyond the fact that manic Andres Nocioni and free-spirited Drew Gooden weren't on it. Full Story
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Scott

Lemont, IL

#21 Feb 19, 2009
Nada Surf wrote:
It would be NICE if the Bulls could deal Gordon today!
They just dealt Hughes-less.
I'm suprised Gordon wouldn't want to be traded to a playoff contender. I'm sure it would help his FA value by playing with a team capable of getting into the 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs.
Greg from the chi

Easton, CT

#22 Feb 19, 2009
Woww the kings might trade noc to the celtics.. If the do that I think the celtics will repeat this yr..
Scott

Lemont, IL

#23 Feb 19, 2009
Scott wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm suprised Gordon wouldn't want to be traded to a playoff contender. I'm sure it would help his FA value by playing with a team capable of getting into the 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs.
I meant hurt his FA value.
Scott

Lemont, IL

#24 Feb 19, 2009
Nada Surf wrote:
It would be NICE if the Bulls could deal Gordon today!
They just dealt Hughes-less.
I'm sure Hughes is happy. Now he can go and put up meaningless numbers for a non playoff contender.
Nada Surf

B M Goldwater A F Range, AZ

#25 Feb 19, 2009
Scott wrote:
<quoted text>
How did I make your point for you? The list shows that roughly 40% of number one picks don't live up to their expectations. Rose so far has, albeit with a small sample size. My point is that it's absurd for you to declare him a bust when he has played all of 2/3rd of one season, and has over that time become the leading candidate for ROY. Is he going to win an MVP award in the next couple of years, that is doubtful, but I can see him being a perennial All Star player.
I'm saying he's been extremely ineffective so far...
Take a look at the Bulls' won-loss record.
Has there been any improvement from last year, even with the wonderboy on the team?
I don't know what the hell you guys are seeing, but this is a talented kid with no clue how to succeed so far.
He doesn't see the action ahead of time so he can't play the point.
He shoots too much to play the point.
He's too short to play the 2-guard.
And they're going to build around this guy?

It's going to be a long decade
Nada
Nada Surf

B M Goldwater A F Range, AZ

#26 Feb 19, 2009
OHH GREAT wrote:
<quoted text> I drove up to the game last nite in milwaukee and there is definatly something Going on with Gordon and delnegro. During each timeout and whenever Ben would get pulled from the game, he would sit at the end of the bench with a towel over his head as far away from Vinny as possible. A few times he didnt even get involved in the huddles. Pete myers communicated With B.G all nite. not once did i see vinny pat him or come near him. Maybe a change of Scenerio would be best for Ben.
Also, you dont realize how horrible VDN is until you see him live in action. That guy just doesnt have a clue. What was up with all those end of game timeouts?
You can change Gordon's scenery all you want but he'll still be a 5-10 shooting guard that can't guard anyone and insists on starters' minutes.

Since: Aug 08

Springfield, IL

#27 Feb 19, 2009
Stratmaster wrote:
<quoted text>
well... except for the fact that the team hasn't had any real problem putting up points. The problem is the Bulls can't defend, and I don't see this trade maiing a difference on the defensive end. Kind of like trading for another power hitter when you have the worst pitching in the league, don't you think?
I'll go ahead and get my 2 cents worth in on the guard situation. Rose and Hinrich as starters (somebody has to play defense). Either Gordon or Salmon (preferably with some herbs and butter) off the bench, with the other going to anyone who will take him before 2:00 p.m.
Stratmaster, don't you think a 6'6 guard defending other teams scoring guards has some bearing defensively? It's probably going to be very helpful as Salmons is also supposed to be a solid defender. Let's at least give the guy a chance.
Scott

Lemont, IL

#28 Feb 20, 2009
Nada Surf wrote:
<quoted text>I'm saying he's been extremely ineffective so far...
Take a look at the Bulls' won-loss record.
Has there been any improvement from last year, even with the wonderboy on the team?
I don't know what the hell you guys are seeing, but this is a talented kid with no clue how to succeed so far.
He doesn't see the action ahead of time so he can't play the point.
He shoots too much to play the point.
He's too short to play the 2-guard.
And they're going to build around this guy?
It's going to be a long decade
Nada
I disagree about Rose being ineffective. Without Rose the Bulls wouldn't even be sniffing the playoffs and would probably have 5 or 6 fewer wins. That may not sound like a lot because they are currently something like the 9th seed in the East, but without him there would be no hope at all.

You can go on and on abou this lack of vision, but as I've said before it is to premature to come to that conclusion. Very few point guards come out of the gate their rookie years and light the world on fire. As for your comment that he shoots too much, who else would you rather have shooting on this team? It's not like he is focing jump shots. Most of his shots are on drives to the basket. His Assists to TO's are also improving (Milwaukee game aside), and will probably decrease over the next couple of years as well.

Here is a question for you Nada, what players do you actually like or think have value on the Bulls or Sox? Based on your posts you seem to want to trade everyone because "their value will never be higher" than it is now.
Nada Surf

B M Goldwater A F Range, AZ

#29 Feb 20, 2009
Scott wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree about Rose being ineffective. Without Rose the Bulls wouldn't even be sniffing the playoffs and would probably have 5 or 6 fewer wins. That may not sound like a lot because they are currently something like the 9th seed in the East, but without him there would be no hope at all.
You can go on and on abou this lack of vision, but as I've said before it is to premature to come to that conclusion. Very few point guards come out of the gate their rookie years and light the world on fire. As for your comment that he shoots too much, who else would you rather have shooting on this team? It's not like he is focing jump shots. Most of his shots are on drives to the basket. His Assists to TO's are also improving (Milwaukee game aside), and will probably decrease over the next couple of years as well.
Here is a question for you Nada, what players do you actually like or think have value on the Bulls or Sox? Based on your posts you seem to want to trade everyone because "their value will never be higher" than it is now.
For starters, the Bulls nearly made the playoffs LAST YEAR without Rose...
They are the same with him, so he has been ineffective...
I see players in college AND high school that have court vision.
Who do I think has value on the Bulls?
In this order: Rose, Thomas, Deng, Hinrich, Noah, Gordon and Gray.
I didn't include the newcomers.

On the Sox, the order goes like this: Danks, Ramirez, Quentin, Buehrle, Floyd, Jenks, Richard, Poreda, Viciedo, Thornton, Linebrink, Pierzynski, Fields, Owens and Marquez.
Dye, Konerko, Thome, Dotel, Contreras and Colon have little or no value.
Stratmaster

Fairport, NY

#30 Feb 23, 2009
CentrILMark wrote:
<quoted text> Stratmaster, don't you think a 6'6 guard defending other teams scoring guards has some bearing defensively? It's probably going to be very helpful as Salmons is also supposed to be a solid defender. Let's at least give the guy a chance.
I'm with you that Salmons is considered an adequate defender with some length. If he is replacing Gordon;s minutes it is an upgrade defensively. Somehow though I don't think that will be the case. My point was that the players acquired are primarily known for their offense, not their defense; and defense is what we are lacking.

I think Salmons is a positive add and didn;t mean to insinuate otherwise; especially if they somehow manage to do a sign and trade with Gordon over the offseason.

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