O'Brien: Tinsley did nothing wrong

Jim O'Brien took exception to the question. Asked Tuesday morning if it was difficult for the Indiana Pacers not to discipline Jamaal Tinsley after a vehicle he was riding in was fired upon early Sunday ... Full Story
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Zwingli the Miffed

North Haven, CT

#66 Dec 12, 2007
Disgusted Pacer Fan wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not sure if you are from Milwaukee or not but this shows as your location in the forum.
If I were to respond as if you were from Milwaukee, there are some organizations that would fire you immediately. There are probably others who would not. Either way, Indiana is a free will state (I believe this is what it is called but not being an HR person am not sure) and a person can be fired for anything. A company does not need a reason.
From a perspective of reasonableness, if it were my company, and a person had made mistakes and needed to be "more smarter", I would fire them (of course, I would be worried his friends may well pay me a little visit) not only for their lack of proper english but their utter lack of good judgement.
I may have missed something but I have not read anywhere that the police have said Tinsely did not do anything wrong (at least under the laws) yet.
I do think that his brother chasing someone and shooting at them would (or should) be against the law a innocent bystanders may have gotten hurt but I am also not a legal expert in criminology.
Regardless, Tinsley has had too many problems in the last year. Why would it take him three times to become "more smarter." He needs to go to a city/team where this behavior is acceptable (Isiah Thomas may be interested?) if there is such a place.
From an HR point of view, if the company were to fire an employee for an off hours incident where it determined that the employee didn't do anything illegal, the employee possibly could have a case for wrongful termination.

Even in a right to work state, an HR department still has to come up with documentation that demonstrates that a person's work performance is negligent. Being charged with a crime is NOT the same as being convicted of a crime, and the HR department would be reluctant to terminate because of that, lest the fired employee is exonerated but now unemployed.

Given that there is a collective bargaining agreement between the NBA and the union that the franchises have to abide to, the Pacers don't really have much recourse.

I agree that Tinsley's brother probably deserves a little scrutiny for his actions, but unless any evidence exists that Jamaal either fired a shot or participated in the chase (initial police reports do not have him doing either), he can't be held responsible for the actions of others.
Hoosier Rebel Sr

Louisville, KY

#67 Dec 12, 2007
Mr. Miffed is as mistaken as J.T., in regards to using their head and thinking straight and sensible. HR, PR, NBA CBA, is all a bunch of dim witted bull. And from one fan's perspective, J.T. does have a performance problem. His turnovers far outweigh his assists and points, and his dribbling fettish is one of the highest in NBA history and good for nothing.
3 strikes and you should be out, plus repeating stupid behavior may not be a crime, but it sure is the sign of a troublemaker and dumbass.
Get rid of the troublemaker, before he kills himself, one of his teammates, or one of us fans.
And your logic in support of this kind of repeated action and publicity for our Pacers is just as puzzling as J.T.'s disregard for his teammates and fans, and family. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you step out of bounds you should be penalized, and not treated as a spoiled brat, who disrespects the privilege and opportunity you've been given, and doesn't face discipline for his bad actions.
Use to be fan

United States

#69 Dec 13, 2007
Coach O'Brien states that Tinsley did nothing wrong. Hum... Lets see here. Didn't it say in the past few years that he had been involved in several other situations in bars late at night?
In my oppinion. Being that stupid this many times is wrong. If the coach had a son that had done this I wonder if he would have said ." Well son you didn't really do anything wrong."
Mike

Indianapolis, IN

#70 Dec 13, 2007
Fans make a difference wrote:
If you want to see changes, stop attending the Pacer games.
From last nights attendance, I think the fans are taking your advice.

Of course everyone has freedom to go out at 3am in the morning. Most people are smart enough not to do so, for at that time of day, who else is out?

Drunks, drug addicts, hookers, thieves, etc....

Can a white male go into the Cloud 9 club? I want to go, about 1am.
Zwingli the Miffed

North Haven, CT

#71 Dec 13, 2007
Hoosier Rebel Sr wrote:
Mr. Miffed is as mistaken as J.T., in regards to using their head and thinking straight and sensible. HR, PR, NBA CBA, is all a bunch of dim witted bull. And from one fan's perspective, J.T. does have a performance problem. His turnovers far outweigh his assists and points, and his dribbling fettish is one of the highest in NBA history and good for nothing.
3 strikes and you should be out, plus repeating stupid behavior may not be a crime, but it sure is the sign of a troublemaker and dumbass.
Get rid of the troublemaker, before he kills himself, one of his teammates, or one of us fans.
And your logic in support of this kind of repeated action and publicity for our Pacers is just as puzzling as J.T.'s disregard for his teammates and fans, and family. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you step out of bounds you should be penalized, and not treated as a spoiled brat, who disrespects the privilege and opportunity you've been given, and doesn't face discipline for his bad actions.
Actually, he's fifth in the league in assists this year.

You're missing the point that the Pacers have to abide by a CBA between the Players' Union and the NBA. I think literally the only situation a team can invoke to terminate a guaranteed, union sanctioned contract is either failing the drug policy (which is in the CBA), or actually going to prison for something. If Tinsley is convicted in the 8 Seconds kerfuffle, then I think the Pacers might have a chance to terminate the contract without a corresponding salary cap hit. Being shot at by other people when no determination has been made that Tinsley did a single thing illegal is NOT grounds to invalidate the CBA with the union.

Frankly, if the Pacers' tried such a stunt, no player would ever play for the team ever again, and their union would side with them.
Zwingli the Miffed

North Haven, CT

#72 Dec 13, 2007
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
From last nights attendance, I think the fans are taking your advice.
Of course everyone has freedom to go out at 3am in the morning. Most people are smart enough not to do so, for at that time of day, who else is out?
Drunks, drug addicts, hookers, thieves, etc....
Can a white male go into the Cloud 9 club? I want to go, about 1am.
Actually, nothing is stopping you other than your apparent bigotry and fear. It is illegal for any establishment to bar a patron on the basis of race, and the fact that you assume that you can't get into Cloud 9 indicates that you might be a teeny tiny bit prejudiced.
Zwingli the Miffed

North Haven, CT

#73 Dec 13, 2007
Lets be honest wrote:
<quoted text>Then they should start putting additional/different language in the contracts when they're negotiated. If conduct "detrimental to the team" was spelled out - then shit like this wouldn't happen so damn much.
Devil's in the details. No self-respecting union would allow such language to be written into a contract, especially suggestions from some people here prohibiting alcohol, and what parts of town the athlete is allowed to go.

LLw

“divided we fail”

Since: Dec 07

Indianapolis, IN

#74 Dec 13, 2007
Ray wrote:
First of all how can anyone who was not out with Tinsley that night, say he done nothing wrong? I'm not saying he provoke the shooting, but we know his brother had a gun. Maybe his brother pulled the gun at the night club and made the other parties mad. This doesn't give anyone the right to follow and shoot, but let's not be so quick to say the Tinsley party did nothing wrong. Just another pro sports team trying to get something out of the press as fast as possible. My biggest concern is why is nothing happening to Tinsley's brother for shooting his gun on monument circle? Shouldn't he lose his license to carry a handgun for life and be fined? Is the message being sent that it's okay for everyone to shoot their gun in public places? At the time Tinsley brother shot his gun his life was not in danger. According to the story on the news. Shouldn't the Star News or the press of any kind be asking these same questions? Again are we saying it's okay as long as it is a sports figure? Should we not be sending a different message to our young sports fans?
His brother has a permit for his gun.

LLw

“divided we fail”

Since: Dec 07

Indianapolis, IN

#75 Dec 13, 2007
Use to be fan wrote:
Coach O'Brien states that Tinsley did nothing wrong. Hum... Lets see here. Didn't it say in the past few years that he had been involved in several other situations in bars late at night?
In my oppinion. Being that stupid this many times is wrong. If the coach had a son that had done this I wonder if he would have said ." Well son you didn't really do anything wrong."
His job is to win basketball games, not be a parent to Jamal Tinsley.
Zwingli the Miffed

North Haven, CT

#76 Dec 13, 2007
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
From last nights attendance, I think the fans are taking your advice.
Of course everyone has freedom to go out at 3am in the morning. Most people are smart enough not to do so, for at that time of day, who else is out?
Drunks, drug addicts, hookers, thieves, etc....
Can a white male go into the Cloud 9 club? I want to go, about 1am.
Actually, if you go see a band play in a nightclub, the headliner generally doesn't start playing until 11:00 and usually finishes around 2. And then afterwards the people attending the show might continue socializing, trying to pick up whoever they met, waiting for a cab, getting a bite to eat at Paco's, etc. It's a gross generalization to assume anyone up that late is automatically a drunk, thief, hooker, or drug addict. I personally don't drink that much, but I like seeing bands play, so I'll have a late night if I'm out.
MJK

Skokie, IL

#77 Dec 13, 2007
O'Brien is correct Tinsley in this case did nothing wrong.

All you prejudice old women need to stay off the internet.
buster

Claremont, CA

#78 Dec 16, 2007
wrlocke wrote:
Sorry Coach O'Brien, Tinsley did something wrong. He broke the 1st rule of self preservation, he made himself a target.
I agree he has the right to a life outside basketball, but in doing so he needs guidance in anonymity, choice of location, and companion selection.
Tinsley should go to Chicago, get rid of the 'glitter', dress in K-Mart, drive a used Focus, flash no dollars, and have his companions keep with the same style.
who do you think you are? you would like to emasculate tinsley by dressing him up like some lame redneck hillbilly. what is the point of this? you cannot tell another man what he can do and not do as long as it is within the law, which he has been. just because people look and dress a little different than you doesn't mean you need to change them. is this jealousy? embrace it buddy. he's making the team win this year.

and what is this junk about "are these the type of players we want representing OUR city?" i want a team that wins representing my city. tinsley is winning. i'll let bird and walsh know that they should check with all of you before they sign anyone to make sure they meet YOUR moral standards, because we should obviously adopt YOUR moral standards as our own, because they are obviously RIGHT, without question.

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