Jeers or cheers? Easy in hindsight

Donnie Walsh saw this as a solo mission. "Believe me, the scouts weren't willing to go on the stage with me," Walsh said. Full Story
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papi

United States

#1 May 15, 2007
Cute to see the local media, much like a cheerleading squad that works on new routines eveyday, rallying round the local team i.e. Ginn's got character, family, and now he's miraculously linked to Reggie Miller! But he's still 5-11, 175 lbs., still plays wr, and still has a bad foot. Only if that 6-3, 225 lbs., qb stud in Cleveland totally bombs will this pick avoud going down as an all time dud. Qb's have longer careers, handle the ball every play, and in the NFL are easily worth a bunch of wr's. Check out how easily New England restocked its wr corps; but could they have replaced Brady that easily? Go ahead Ethan and keep on drinking that Ginn Kool-Aid, but if Quinn can play watch out for the flashbacks.
Sidney

Charlotte, NC

#2 May 15, 2007
papi wrote:
...this pick avoud going down as an all time dud.
all time? Hardly!
football hermit

Ocala, FL

#3 May 15, 2007
papi wrote:
Cute to see the local media, much like a cheerleading squad that works on new routines eveyday, rallying round the local team i.e. Ginn's got character, family, and now he's miraculously linked to Reggie Miller! But he's still 5-11, 175 lbs., still plays wr, and still has a bad foot.(BlahBLAHBLAHBLAHbut if Quinn can play watch out for the flashbacks.
Shut up TOOL!

These genius Dolphin fans that are bashing the new regimes first #1 draft pic need t be dealt with harshly as they don't respond to reason.

They think they are all egg-spurtz because they get their information from TV or the internet or sports columns in the newspapers. As Ethan Skolnick pointed out there IS a BIG DIFFERENCE in the amount and accuracy of the information that teams have access to as opposed to everyone else. ie.. Mel Kiper and Papi are BLOWHARDS!
MBC

Winchester, NH

#4 May 15, 2007
Hey Papi - you do realize that we did pick a QB, right? We picked a QB that many feel is better than Quinn.
I thought it was a very honest article. And Papi just proved the point that fans don't know as much as they think they do.
john

Hollywood, FL

#5 May 15, 2007
MBC wrote:
Hey Papi - you do realize that we did pick a QB, right? We picked a QB that many feel is better than Quinn.
I thought it was a very honest article. And Papi just proved the point that fans don't know as much as they think they do.
Beck is not better than Quinn by most published reports. Beck was in the 2nd tier of QB's according to most published reports. Ginn was rated with the top recievers. Most successful coaches choose a franchise QB when they get the chance. Being a season ticket holder for 25 plus years I applaud the new regime for standing with their plan but taking a injured WR who will last maybe 3-4 years in NFL has tested my patience with dumb moves.The chance to pick up the nose tackle from Miami was another dumb move I question. I hope I'm wrong and I continue going to games but Next year I WILL NOT RENEW if I'm right. This once proud franchise has lost something in the last 7-8 years and maybe loyal fans deserve better.
Tony B

United States

#6 May 15, 2007
Boy, is everyone sweeting about the recent draft picks by Miami...and yes they should, basically, the coach and GM'S job could be on the line if Beck and Ginn don't pan out.
People are forgetting that this team didn't even try to trade up to get the QB that should of been trying to get and instead Oakland gets him. In the past few years, Miami never does go get the players they really need! What about starting Offensive linemen?- Instead we get backup type linemen...I am still waiting to see how this all turns out..but if the past shows us anything, we will see the same old under-achieving team as we have seen the past 5 years!
Steve-O

North Miami Beach, FL

#7 May 15, 2007
papi wrote:
Cute to see the local media, much like a cheerleading squad that works on new routines eveyday, rallying round the local team i.e. Ginn's got character, family, and now he's miraculously linked to Reggie Miller! But he's still 5-11, 175 lbs., still plays wr, and still has a bad foot. Only if that 6-3, 225 lbs., qb stud in Cleveland totally bombs will this pick avoud going down as an all time dud. Qb's have longer careers, handle the ball every play, and in the NFL are easily worth a bunch of wr's. Check out how easily New England restocked its wr corps; but could they have replaced Brady that easily? Go ahead Ethan and keep on drinking that Ginn Kool-Aid, but if Quinn can play watch out for the flashbacks.
Well said, Papi. Hyde, Skolnick, Marvez, et al are nothing but a bunch of Yes-Men towing Huizenga's company line.
I find it funny in that of all the players that were mentioned in this article, not one of them has won a title in their respective sport.
remember 2001

Gainesville, FL

#8 May 15, 2007
Who was the super hyped QB and who was that 2nd round gem....Vick and Brees....In my opinion Vick turned out to be a dud and Brees could be a MVP in the upcoming years. Only knock on Beck is that he is kind of on the old side...but 7 good years wouldnt bother me one bit
Orange Lot Tailgater

Fort Myers, FL

#9 May 15, 2007
Glad to see that Dolphins "Fans" are giving Cam/Mueller, and the players they have drafted, a chance to prove themeselves, before throwing them under the bus. Such nice "fair weather" we have here in S. Florida.
Steve

Saint Charles, IL

#10 May 15, 2007
I understand your problem with skipping Quinn, but If you don't think he is going to be great do you put that much of an investment into him. It will set you back 3 years if your wrong.
john wrote:
<quoted text>
Beck is not better than Quinn by most published reports. Beck was in the 2nd tier of QB's according to most published reports. Ginn was rated with the top recievers. Most successful coaches choose a franchise QB when they get the chance. Being a season ticket holder for 25 plus years I applaud the new regime for standing with their plan but taking a injured WR who will last maybe 3-4 years in NFL has tested my patience with dumb moves.The chance to pick up the nose tackle from Miami was another dumb move I question. I hope I'm wrong and I continue going to games but Next year I WILL NOT RENEW if I'm right. This once proud franchise has lost something in the last 7-8 years and maybe loyal fans deserve better.
Steve-O

North Miami Beach, FL

#11 May 15, 2007
remember 2001 wrote:
Who was the super hyped QB and who was that 2nd round gem....Vick and Brees....In my opinion Vick turned out to be a dud and Brees could be a MVP in the upcoming years. Only knock on Beck is that he is kind of on the old side...but 7 good years wouldnt bother me one bit
The Dolphins passed on Drew Brees too.

Since: Jan 07

Cocoa Fl

#13 May 15, 2007
Beck will be as good or better than Quinn.

As for Ginn, I hope it works out but I still can't understand the choice. I really thought Cameron/Mueller would go after a OT. This constant "lets try this guy over here" hasn't got us anywhere.
Jack from Fort Lauderdale

West Palm Beach, FL

#14 May 15, 2007
remember 2001 wrote:
Who was the super hyped QB and who was that 2nd round gem....Vick and Brees....In my opinion Vick turned out to be a dud and Brees could be a MVP in the upcoming years. Only knock on Beck is that he is kind of on the old side...but 7 good years wouldnt bother me one bit
Oops, the Fins bollixed that one up too by taking Culpepper rather than Brees. Q.E.D.

End of lesson.
kingfish

Apalachicola, FL

#15 May 15, 2007
To start with Ginn is a playmaker, weather he works out and becomes a star reciever only time can tell. As far as his size, look at Marvin Harrison or Wes Welker.

Now as for Beck vs. Quinn, I too have read lots of scouting reports and the only knock on Beck was his arm strength. We Dolfans have all seen his 70 yard throw on YouTube, so arm strength is apparently not a problem.

To sum all this up, we will more than likely be seeing Beck making 70 yard touchdown passes to Ginn in a couple of years while Quinn will be in Cleveland throwing to recievers that are duck hunting.
Westsider

North Port, FL

#16 May 15, 2007
Steve-O wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said, Papi. Hyde, Skolnick, Marvez, et al are nothing but a bunch of Yes-Men towing Huizenga's company line.
I find it funny in that of all the players that were mentioned in this article, not one of them has won a title in their respective sport.
Dennis Rodman & Will Perdue won several of them ..... so using that theory Rodman should be in the hall of fame, right ! Not hardly. At the end of each NFL season, in case you never did the math, 31 teams x 53 men on the roster = 1643 players that are 'losers' by your equation. And that doesn't include the practice rosters. Get a better arguement !!

I find your comment to be just the opposite of the actual case. The Miami/Ft. Lauderdale writers were just as knee-jerk as the fans on the day of the draft !! None of the so called 'experts,' with the exception of one guy, RON Jaworski, ever look at the film breakdowns of these players in the draft. Even if they did, they wouldn't even know what they were looking at !

The important thoughts to take away from this article are that fans/media, etc., don't know anything about it. PERIOD, end of story.

That said, you must keep in mind that you are still, in a sense, gambling on PEOPLE. You can't always predict to how they're going to react when sudden wealth lands in their lap. You can't tell what they'll do when they don't have a roommate, coach, or parent there each day helping them make the RIGHT CHOICES on a moment to moment basis.

Many times there are telltale signs that a guy may have real problems making the right choice, and a team can either heed those signs or hedge their bets a bit in exchange for the possibility of obtaining the services of a true 'difference maker.' Whenthese questionable guys work out, the teams that passed on them are thought to be 'dumb' while the team that gambled looks like 'geniuses.' Conversely when a questionable guy fails, thew team that gambled on them are scorned as 'idiots,' since evryone with an ounce of sense knew they'd screw up again, right ? In this years draft, Jamarcus Russell was the guy that has the huge upside potential but many ????? about laziness, character, intelligence, etc. Last year it was Vince Young that was the guy with ????, and he won Rookie of the year. A few years back, Ryan Leaf was the guy with good physical tools but questionable other areas, etc. Look what happened to him. 35+ years ago, Terry Bradshaw was thought to lack the QB 'IQ' to be successful at the NFL level. Results, HALL of Fame. In that famous '83 draft, after Elway was taken, 4 more QBs (Blackledge, Eason, O'Brien & Kelley) were taken before Dan Marino, as Dan had issues that people were questioning. Kelly ceratinlt did well but the others never made it to the top of the heap! In summation: when you are betting on those human frailties, it can go either way. Also, to go back to one of your analogies, Kelly never got a 'Ring." Wsa he a bust ?

Your thought process is off from where I sit.
Westsider

North Port, FL

#17 May 15, 2007
Orange Lot Tailgater wrote:
Glad to see that Dolphins "Fans" are giving Cam/Mueller, and the players they have drafted, a chance to prove themeselves, before throwing them under the bus. Such nice "fair weather" we have here in S. Florida.
Amen to that, brother. GREAT POST !!!
Dolphin Fan in SC

Northbrook, IL

#18 May 15, 2007
Guy's don't forget that there is in the NFL WR that are small fast and have very good carrer one that comes in mind is Steve Smith of the Panther small WR ligthing quick. So lets just see what happen with Ginn before we even write him off!!
Jack from Fort Lauderdale

West Palm Beach, FL

#19 May 15, 2007
Orange Lot Tailgater wrote:
Glad to see that Dolphins "Fans" are giving Cam/Mueller, and the players they have drafted, a chance to prove themeselves, before throwing them under the bus. Such nice "fair weather" we have here in S. Florida.
The fans have given the franchise ten+ years and three coaching administrations an opportunity to succeed. Just exactly when was that fair weather when the Fins had a Super Bowl contender that wouldn't get smashed in meaningful cold weather December games? You dopes would probably cite the Flutie bowl when he drop kicked a PAT in New England when they were playing for golf tee times.
Orange Lot Tailgater

Fort Myers, FL

#20 May 15, 2007
What I don't get is why people use PRIOR regimes' choices as SUPPORT for their reasoning that THIS new regime screwed up, in this draft. Example - "these guys suck because this is the same team that passed on Drew Brees." Cam and Mueller did not pass on Brees and chose Jamar Fletcher - Wanny did. Last time I checked, Wanny was long gone. "This constant 'let's try this guy over here' hasn't gotten us anywhere."

Yeah, Cam and Mueller's constant "let's try this guy..." Oh, wait...I forgot...this was THEIR FIRST DRAFT.

Why didn't they pick an OT with No. 9? Simple answer - and it goes back to the "best available player" theory. There were no OT's worthy of the first round, let alone the No. 9 pick, once Thomas and Levi were taken. But Ginn WAS a first round (top 15-20 pick) calibre WR. A better question, and a fair one too - would be "if they were going to follow the "best available player on the board" route,(and if they had already decided to pick a QB in round 2 and pass on Quinn) why didn't they pick one of several players (DT, CB, etc.) rated higher than Ginn?"
kingfish

Apalachicola, FL

#21 May 15, 2007
Westsider wrote:
<quoted text>
Dennis Rodman & Will Perdue won several of them ..... so using that theory Rodman should be in the hall of fame, right ! Not hardly. At the end of each NFL season, in case you never did the math, 31 teams x 53 men on the roster = 1643 players that are 'losers' by your equation. And that doesn't include the practice rosters. Get a better arguement !!
I find your comment to be just the opposite of the actual case. The Miami/Ft. Lauderdale writers were just as knee-jerk as the fans on the day of the draft !! None of the so called 'experts,' with the exception of one guy, RON Jaworski, ever look at the film breakdowns of these players in the draft. Even if they did, they wouldn't even know what they were looking at !
The important thoughts to take away from this article are that fans/media, etc., don't know anything about it. PERIOD, end of story.
That said, you must keep in mind that you are still, in a sense, gambling on PEOPLE. You can't always predict to how they're going to react when sudden wealth lands in their lap. You can't tell what they'll do when they don't have a roommate, coach, or parent there each day helping them make the RIGHT CHOICES on a moment to moment basis.
Many times there are telltale signs that a guy may have real problems making the right choice, and a team can either heed those signs or hedge their bets a bit in exchange for the possibility of obtaining the services of a true 'difference maker.' Whenthese questionable guys work out, the teams that passed on them are thought to be 'dumb' while the team that gambled looks like 'geniuses.' Conversely when a questionable guy fails, thew team that gambled on them are scorned as 'idiots,' since evryone with an ounce of sense knew they'd screw up again, right ? In this years draft, Jamarcus Russell was the guy that has the huge upside potential but many ????? about laziness, character, intelligence, etc. Last year it was Vince Young that was the guy with ????, and he won Rookie of the year. A few years back, Ryan Leaf was the guy with good physical tools but questionable other areas, etc. Look what happened to him. 35+ years ago, Terry Bradshaw was thought to lack the QB 'IQ' to be successful at the NFL level. Results, HALL of Fame. In that famous '83 draft, after Elway was taken, 4 more QBs (Blackledge, Eason, O'Brien & Kelley) were taken before Dan Marino, as Dan had issues that people were questioning. Kelly ceratinlt did well but the others never made it to the top of the heap! In summation: when you are betting on those human frailties, it can go either way. Also, to go back to one of your analogies, Kelly never got a 'Ring." Wsa he a bust ?
Your thought process is off from where I sit.
Right on the money!

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