Timberwolves' latest beating comes with a lesson from the Chicago Bulls

Full story: TwinCities.com

The way the Chicago Bulls were playing Wednesday night at Target Center, it was probably best for the Timberwolves to just sit back and take notes.
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Tfan

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#22
Mar 31, 2011
 
Mike L wrote:
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Brewer the best team player?? I don't know about that. He didn't pass or handle the ball well when he was here, and was clueless about how to play in Rambis' offense. I agree the team needs to play better as a team, but that will hopefully come with time and better players. I think Rubio will come over. And from the few games I've seen him play, he really gets the ball moving. The draft doesn't look too strong as far as elite talent, but a good player could be used to trade or upgrade a position.


Being a team player means so much more than u r thinking. He did what the coaches asked him to do, if he wasn't why was he starting over all the others. He came with energy and was a game changer, if u watched so many games what about the game where brewer hustled down and blocked a shot then got back in position to draw the charge after that play the wolves got back into the game and made it interesting. Or how about the play where he chased down a steal and passed to Johnson for a dunk. I'm sorry but I completely disagree with him being clueless from what I saw his spacing was good, his cuts were good, he didn't monopolize the ball he either shot, passed or decisively took it to the hole. Every year he improved another aspect of his game. Go read the article about how the other wolves said how much he taught them.
But most of all he was a loyal player most players would look for every opportunity to get out of here, he wasn't, he was willing to do what he could to try to help this team win and he wouldn't complain about his minutes.
True they had to trade a player to get Randolph but why weren 't they there to try to bring him back after he got bought out. Or what in the world are they doing with telfair I prefer him over Ridnour but he doesn't get any playing time and he's a free agent at end of year are they planning on signing him, if not , the trade should have been koufos and telfair. Even better would have been to trade Ridnour that would open playing time for telfair,Flynn and Ellington at pg
The other reason I think it would have been good to keep brewer is that he would have had another year under Rambis, it's obvious Rambis is trying to instill his system over adjusting to the players. That takes time and I think brewer was really starting to get what Rambis was asking.
The Hard Truth

Bemidji, MN

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#23
Mar 31, 2011
 
fracas wrote:
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I doubt that is going to happen. We know he has the ability. Does he have the will? Maybe he is the Darko Milicic of internet posting, teasing with ability, but fumbling opportunity after opportunity, all the while looking apathetic?
Changing subjects, the wolves have folded their tents on this season. The last competitive game they played was about two weeks ago. I will probably watch the rest of the games just because I like basketball. However, I don't know if I can take another season like the last few. Every year this mess drags on the wolves lose more and more fans.
What thinks you about my first posting on this thread? I know the bucket of parts that Kahn assembled this year is superior to the bucket of parts that constituted the Timberwolves last year. So I am left with the conclusion that the problem is either the coach or the chemistry, which, ultimately, devolves to the coaching. Or at least that's the best I can do to unravel this mess in my mind.

If, indeed, I am wrong, and it is the mix of players, I have long since passed the point of believing that the addition of Rubio will suddenly cause this team to congeal into an actual NBA team. If we need to blow it up again, then Kahn should be sent packing.

I just don't know what to think. Do you?
fracas

Tucson, AZ

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#24
Mar 31, 2011
 
THT,

Well, I know what I think, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. I think the Wolves have several puzzle pieces, but the pieces are not all from the same puzzle, and things don't fit well. You have too many guys who only play when the ball is in their hands, specifically Beasley and Flynn. Beas is most happy when he is shooting, Flynn when he is pounding the dribble. The wolves don't seem to have anyone capable of beating their man off the dribble and getting to the hoop. Love is too small, Darko can't dribble, has weak hands, and could get stripped by a fourth grader, Beasley and Webster aren't quick enough, Wes can't dribble and isn't tough enough. So, you have a roster that isn't good at penetrating. There are not a lot of really skilled jump shooters either.

Only Wes and Tolliver on defense are really even NBA average. Flynn can't stay in front of any guard currently in the NBA. Beasley is too slow to check NBA small forwards. Darko is long, which gets him some blocks, but lacks coordination and can't jump. Love is short for the position and isn't a shot blocker.

I don't know that I really blame Rambis all that much. He kept this ragtag group competing pretty hard up until about two weeks ago. Maybe he could have done a better job, but I don't think anyone would have won 25 games with this group. You had better get used to Rambis being around as he has two more years on his contract and I cannot see Taylor eating the last two years when this team isn't going to win anyway, at least not in a big way.

It would seem to me that Kahn is on thinner ice than Rambis. Kahn is the one that signed off on the 2009 draft of Rubio and Flynn. Curry should have been the 6th pick. Don't tell me that he wouldn't have been happy here. Curry and Rubio could have played in the same backcourt, unlike Flynn and Rubio. Curry was going to have to play here or go overseas. Kahn also signed off on the 2010 draft of Johnson, who has been underwhelming. On the plus side, Beasley and Randolph were brought in for next to nothing.

So, to answer your question, while I am not wild about Rambis, I think this is more on the players than it is on Rambis. This is a ragtag group of players that are not well rounded, and not interested enough in defense. I would like to be optimistic about next year, but I cannot see a major improvement.
The Hard Truth

Bemidji, MN

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#25
Mar 31, 2011
 
fracas wrote:
THT,
Well, I know what I think, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. I think the Wolves have several puzzle pieces, but the pieces are not all from the same puzzle, and things don't fit well. You have too many guys who only play when the ball is in their hands, specifically Beasley and Flynn. Beas is most happy when he is shooting, Flynn when he is pounding the dribble. The wolves don't seem to have anyone capable of beating their man off the dribble and getting to the hoop. Love is too small, Darko can't dribble, has weak hands, and could get stripped by a fourth grader, Beasley and Webster aren't quick enough, Wes can't dribble and isn't tough enough. So, you have a roster that isn't good at penetrating. There are not a lot of really skilled jump shooters either.
Only Wes and Tolliver on defense are really even NBA average. Flynn can't stay in front of any guard currently in the NBA. Beasley is too slow to check NBA small forwards. Darko is long, which gets him some blocks, but lacks coordination and can't jump. Love is short for the position and isn't a shot blocker.
I don't know that I really blame Rambis all that much. He kept this ragtag group competing pretty hard up until about two weeks ago. Maybe he could have done a better job, but I don't think anyone would have won 25 games with this group. You had better get used to Rambis being around as he has two more years on his contract and I cannot see Taylor eating the last two years when this team isn't going to win anyway, at least not in a big way.
It would seem to me that Kahn is on thinner ice than Rambis. Kahn is the one that signed off on the 2009 draft of Rubio and Flynn. Curry should have been the 6th pick. Don't tell me that he wouldn't have been happy here. Curry and Rubio could have played in the same backcourt, unlike Flynn and Rubio. Curry was going to have to play here or go overseas. Kahn also signed off on the 2010 draft of Johnson, who has been underwhelming. On the plus side, Beasley and Randolph were brought in for next to nothing.
So, to answer your question, while I am not wild about Rambis, I think this is more on the players than it is on Rambis. This is a ragtag group of players that are not well rounded, and not interested enough in defense. I would like to be optimistic about next year, but I cannot see a major improvement.
Sadly cogent. So what this means is that Kahn will continue to do his metaphoric garage sale hunting in hopes of finding a copy of the Magna Carta hidden behind an old photograph; Rambis will continue to coach, ever more half heartedly, with his eyes cast to the west; Love will be counting the days until he can go play for the Lakers; and we are left hoping that a year of maturing will produce a team from a ragtag collection of flawed or unformed players. All that, and the fantasy of Rubio, whose game is looking ever more suspect as the Euro season wears on.

The frustration is that if every piece fell into the right place, this whole thing could work out. But that's like thinking you've finally found a system to beat the house in Las Vegas.

I'm afraid I'll be hooked, at least partially, for one more season. I was pleased to find that I didn't bother watching most of the Chicago game because I just didn't care. When that constitutes mental health, it does not bode well for either my future or the team's.

I WANT to like Kahn. I WANT to like Rambis. I WANT to think that Beasley is a year away from turning off the goofball machine and seeing that he has talent, that Wes just needs to relax into the smooth player he can be, and that Darko will get some toughness.

But just when I have these fantasies the faces morph and I see Ricky Davis, Randy Foye, and Rasho, haunting my Timberwolves dreams just like it's groundhog day.

Overall, I feel pretty beat. But wait -- isn't that Godot, or Rubio, I hear coming over the hill?
CamelTow

Calgary, Canada

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#26
Apr 1, 2011
 
Mike L wrote:
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From 1998-2004, the Wolves made the playoffs. They didn't get passed the 1st round until 2004, but they did make it to the West finals. There have been worse franchises. And people go to the games because they like the game of basketball. I'm a season ticket holder, but just by selling my tickets to the Heat, Lakers, Boston and Chicago games, I made my money back and then some.
I don't know why you Wolves haters take time out of your day just to rip them. But most of you don't even do your research. At least state facts when you rip a team.
they are a laughable franchise at best. I am glad you like basketball and attend the games, good for you. I hate basketball mostly becuz of the Wolves. They are boring, lack any type of cohesiveness, no management style, jsut a terrible product, end of story...but hey, good for you, enjoy.......
fracas

Tucson, AZ

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#27
Apr 1, 2011
 
THT,

The problem with the wolves on offense is that nobody can beat their man off the dribble, the defense doesn't have to double anyone, so shots are easy to contest.

I am not saying that Rubio is the man, as I have only seen him play 3 times, but the Wolves need a PG who can get past his defender and get into the paint, collapsing the defense. The Flynn "experiment" is over, at least in my book. Ridnour would make a superb backup on a quality team. Kahn should give Rubio an ultimatum, it is now or never. If Rubio says "no" then find your PG somewhere else.

The wolves could also use a center who has more than one offensive move, and can actually hang on to the ball.

Rambis has to hold Beasley accountable on defense. Instead of watching the ball during the Chicago game, I watched Beasley try to defend Luol Deng. Most of the time Beasley was hanging around the lane, and only was closely guarding Deng if you define close as being in the same ZIP code. If Beasley won't exert himself on defense, then sit his ass and let him pout. Randolph will come in and play with energy, as will Tolliver. Put one in at SF and see what happens. If they are too slow to stay with Deng how is that any worse than Beasley.

So, if I have a gripe with Rambis it is that he has been too easy on the slackers, giving them minutes that they haven't earned, and that he has not apparently DEMANDED that they work hard on defense to get those minutes. Perhaps Kahn has told Rambis that Beasley, Flynn, and Darko are going to play.......end of discussion.
Mike L

United States

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#28
Apr 1, 2011
 
Tfan wrote:
<quoted text>
Being a team player means so much more than u r thinking. He did what the coaches asked him to do, if he wasn't why was he starting over all the others. He came with energy and was a game changer, if u watched so many games what about the game where brewer hustled down and blocked a shot then got back in position to draw the charge after that play the wolves got back into the game and made it interesting. Or how about the play where he chased down a steal and passed to Johnson for a dunk. I'm sorry but I completely disagree with him being clueless from what I saw his spacing was good, his cuts were good, he didn't monopolize the ball he either shot, passed or decisively took it to the hole. Every year he improved another aspect of his game. Go read the article about how the other wolves said how much he taught them.
But most of all he was a loyal player most players would look for every opportunity to get out of here, he wasn't, he was willing to do what he could to try to help this team win and he wouldn't complain about his minutes.
True they had to trade a player to get Randolph but why weren 't they there to try to bring him back after he got bought out. Or what in the world are they doing with telfair I prefer him over Ridnour but he doesn't get any playing time and he's a free agent at end of year are they planning on signing him, if not , the trade should have been koufos and telfair. Even better would have been to trade Ridnour that would open playing time for telfair,Flynn and Ellington at pg
The other reason I think it would have been good to keep brewer is that he would have had another year under Rambis, it's obvious Rambis is trying to instill his system over adjusting to the players. That takes time and I think brewer was really starting to get what Rambis was asking.
TFAN, I respect your opinion but you and I see him completely different. Bottom line is he's gone and I hope he does well wherever he goes. I enjoyed his hard play and those fun blocks, but I just didn't see the basketball smarts at all.
Mike L

United States

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#29
Apr 1, 2011
 
fracas wrote:
THT,
The problem with the wolves on offense is that nobody can beat their man off the dribble, the defense doesn't have to double anyone, so shots are easy to contest.
I am not saying that Rubio is the man, as I have only seen him play 3 times, but the Wolves need a PG who can get past his defender and get into the paint, collapsing the defense. The Flynn "experiment" is over, at least in my book. Ridnour would make a superb backup on a quality team. Kahn should give Rubio an ultimatum, it is now or never. If Rubio says "no" then find your PG somewhere else.
The wolves could also use a center who has more than one offensive move, and can actually hang on to the ball.
Rambis has to hold Beasley accountable on defense. Instead of watching the ball during the Chicago game, I watched Beasley try to defend Luol Deng. Most of the time Beasley was hanging around the lane, and only was closely guarding Deng if you define close as being in the same ZIP code. If Beasley won't exert himself on defense, then sit his **** and let him pout. Randolph will come in and play with energy, as will Tolliver. Put one in at SF and see what happens. If they are too slow to stay with Deng how is that any worse than Beasley.
So, if I have a gripe with Rambis it is that he has been too easy on the slackers, giving them minutes that they haven't earned, and that he has not apparently DEMANDED that they work hard on defense to get those minutes. Perhaps Kahn has told Rambis that Beasley, Flynn, and Darko are going to play.......end of discussion.
Fracas, I like your points. Beasley is a player that can change the game like no other player at his position, with the exception of Carmelo. His combination of size, skill, shooting, and quickness make him a nightmare to defend. But his brain just isn't always in the game. It's so hard to watch at times. Hes got such a great personality and really makes the game entertaining. But that defense just makes me want to scream sometimes.

As far as lineup changes, I'm not sold on Anthony Randolph physically but I understand where you are coming from. Darko is Darko and he can drive wolve fans crazy at times. I'm curious what it would take to get Chris Kaman from the Clips? He has been hurt a lot, but would be an improvement... I really think Rubio will be a great upgrade for the Wolves. I still haven't seen enough of him on defense to see how he will help there, but Ridnour doubles EVERYONE before they even make a move with the basketball!

I could see the Wolves starting next year with a much different team on the floor. Beasley and Flynn could be traded this summer, as well as just about anyone wearing a jersey on the team! Wes Johnson is a guy I like playing the 3 as well as KLove at the 4. Other than that, I'm open for change!
Mike L

United States

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#30
Apr 1, 2011
 
Excuse my double post.
The real just another day

Saint Paul, MN

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#31
Apr 1, 2011
 
The Hard Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Sadly cogent. So what this means is that Kahn will continue to do his metaphoric garage sale hunting in hopes of finding a copy of the Magna Carta hidden behind an old photograph; Rambis will continue to coach, ever more half heartedly, with his eyes cast to the west; Love will be counting the days until he can go play for the Lakers; and we are left hoping that a year of maturing will produce a team from a ragtag collection of flawed or unformed players. All that, and the fantasy of Rubio, whose game is looking ever more suspect as the Euro season wears on.
The frustration is that if every piece fell into the right place, this whole thing could work out. But that's like thinking you've finally found a system to beat the house in Las Vegas.
I'm afraid I'll be hooked, at least partially, for one more season. I was pleased to find that I didn't bother watching most of the Chicago game because I just didn't care. When that constitutes mental health, it does not bode well for either my future or the team's.
I WANT to like Kahn. I WANT to like Rambis. I WANT to think that Beasley is a year away from turning off the goofball machine and seeing that he has talent, that Wes just needs to relax into the smooth player he can be, and that Darko will get some toughness.
But just when I have these fantasies the faces morph and I see Ricky Davis, Randy Foye, and Rasho, haunting my Timberwolves dreams just like it's groundhog day.
Overall, I feel pretty beat. But wait -- isn't that Godot, or Rubio, I hear coming over the hill?
OMG. What a pompous twit. He used 'I' and 'my' and 'us' at least twenty times.

That deserves a big ol': I swear to god, you mudducks are sooooo dumb....
The Hard Truth

Minneapolis, MN

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#32
Apr 1, 2011
 
The real just another day wrote:
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OMG. What a pompous twit. He used 'I' and 'my' and 'us' at least twenty times.
That deserves a big ol': I swear to god, you mudducks are sooooo dumb....
Welcome back, little fella.
The real just another day

Saint Paul, MN

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#33
Apr 1, 2011
 
The Hard Truth wrote:
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Welcome back, little fella.
'Sadly cogent'. Threw up in my mouth at that one, thanks...

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