O'Neal ineffective in return to Pacers' lineup

Full story: The Indianapolis Star

Grant Hill scored 11 of his 22 points in the fourth quarter, and Trevor Ariza added 17 to help the Orlando Magic beat the Indiana Pacers 95-87 on Friday night.
Comments
21 - 34 of 34 Comments Last updated Apr 11, 2007
First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Library Mom

Atlanta, GA

#23 Apr 3, 2007
Makai wrote:
<quoted text>

So I have heard and if she did, I stand corrected... But I still have some questions for you: 1. did he get booed on draft day, real fan??? 2. Did you believe the Colts could do it?? 3. Did you trust Dungy when he said that the defense did not need big changes? 4. When Dungy speaks from now on will you believe he knows what he is talking about?
Makai, if you remember that Reggie got booed however many years ago, yet you have no understanding of our current draft situation, I'd say you've got a credibility problem when you say you are currently a fan. To answer your questions, no I don't remember Miller getting booed (I was 8 years old), and yes I did trust Dungy when the defense was having trouble (I especially trusted that Bob Sanders would have a positive effect when he returned).

Since: Jan 07

Sewaren, NJ

#24 Apr 3, 2007
Library Mom wrote:
<quoted text>

Makai, if you remember that Reggie got booed however many years ago, yet you have no understanding of our current draft situation, I'd say you've got a credibility problem when you say you are currently a fan. To answer your questions, no I don't remember Miller getting booed (I was 8 years old), and yes I did trust Dungy when the defense was having trouble (I especially trusted that Bob Sanders would have a positive effect when he returned).
Credibility?? Do you know everything about that ins and outs of either the Pacers or the Colts?? You are a kid!! I am sure there are things that I could trip you up on. I have followed both teams since 1984. I remember Ron Meyer taking over the team. I remember people like Bubba Smith, John Mackey, and Mike Curtis who were all perennial All-Pro's. I remember watching them when they won the Superbowl the first time. They played the Cowboys and I hated them then. I remember when the Pacers played in the ABA. Don't mess with me about sports or we can have a little credibility contest. I have probably forgotten more than you can remembered.

I haven't followed the Pacers so much this year because I am still on a high from the Colts winning the SuperBowl.
Library Mom

United States

#25 Apr 6, 2007
Makai wrote:
<quoted text>
Credibility?? Do you know everything about that ins and outs of either the Pacers or the Colts?? You are a kid!! I am sure there are things that I could trip you up on. I have followed both teams since 1984. I remember Ron Meyer taking over the team. I remember people like Bubba Smith, John Mackey, and Mike Curtis who were all perennial All-Pro's. I remember watching them when they won the Superbowl the first time. They played the Cowboys and I hated them then. I remember when the Pacers played in the ABA. Don't mess with me about sports or we can have a little credibility contest. I have probably forgotten more than you can remembered.
I haven't followed the Pacers so much this year because I am still on a high from the Colts winning the SuperBowl.
You lack credibility regarding your critique of other fans' thoughts on this year's team. If, as you admit, you haven't followed this year's team, how can you say whether they are going in the right direction, and how can you criticize fans who say they aren't?? The problem with people booing Reggie Miller on draft day was that they were already judging someone who hadn't even started. This year's team, on the other hand, has proven itself to have its fair share of underachievers, and the management has proven itself unable to motivate them to do better. Consequently, it's ok for fans who've been paying attention to the season to critique the players and management. Your comparison of Reggie Miller to this year's team proves that you're completely out of touch with this year's team. Reggie Miller would tell you the same thing.

Since: Jan 07

Hopatcong, NJ

#26 Apr 8, 2007
Library Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
You lack credibility regarding your critique of other fans' thoughts on this year's team. If, as you admit, you haven't followed this year's team, how can you say whether they are going in the right direction, and how can you criticize fans who say they aren't?? The problem with people booing Reggie Miller on draft day was that they were already judging someone who hadn't even started. This year's team, on the other hand, has proven itself to have its fair share of underachievers, and the management has proven itself unable to motivate them to do better. Consequently, it's ok for fans who've been paying attention to the season to critique the players and management. Your comparison of Reggie Miller to this year's team proves that you're completely out of touch with this year's team. Reggie Miller would tell you the same thing.
Here is the problem Library Mom... This didn't start this year. This is an on going problem with sports in general. Whether it be the Pacers fans or Colts fan. Fan like you are only as loyal as the last win. And as far as the management is concern I stopped paying attention when, after trading for Al Harrington, you go and trade him to Golden State. I still think that the Artest trade was a waste... What do we have to show for it??? We are becoming the laughing stock because we don't know how to handle certain kinds of players. I Think the trade for Rasheed Wallace was a stroke of genius. The Pacers would never do anything like that... it is too risky, he is too explosive and controversial. You guys would love to have Dirk or Steve Nash. I am amazed at the infatuation everybody has with Dirk an Nash and neither has won a d-mn thing together or apart.
Library Mom

Atlanta, GA

#27 Apr 9, 2007
Makai wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is the problem Library Mom... This didn't start this year. This is an on going problem with sports in general. Whether it be the Pacers fans or Colts fan. Fan like you are only as loyal as the last win. And as far as the management is concern I stopped paying attention when, after trading for Al Harrington, you go and trade him to Golden State. I still think that the Artest trade was a waste... What do we have to show for it??? We are becoming the laughing stock because we don't know how to handle certain kinds of players. I Think the trade for Rasheed Wallace was a stroke of genius. The Pacers would never do anything like that... it is too risky, he is too explosive and controversial. You guys would love to have Dirk or Steve Nash. I am amazed at the infatuation everybody has with Dirk an Nash and neither has won a d-mn thing together or apart.
My head hurt after reading your directionless post. I went back and looked at your previous posts, and now I'm even less clear on what your point is. So you're optimistic about the draft, because you think we can get a natural center; you're pessimistic about the draft because we apparently have no first round draft pick; you don't think we should criticize the team; you are critical of management, because they make too many trades; you think management should have traded for Rasheed before he had won any championships; you think people like me like or hate the Colts/Pacers depending on their last win; you think people like me are infatuated with Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitski, even though they hadn't won any championships. Wow. That's a masterpiece, Makai. My dog's farts make more sense than your posts.

Since: Jan 07

Hopatcong, NJ

#28 Apr 10, 2007
Library Mom... I am giving my opinions. They may have been on an assortment of issues I feel strongly about but one thing is for sure, I am giving them. You are just commenting on what I am saying. which is easy. It makes me think that you really have very little to say yourself.

I think the players who play for the Pacers are trying very hard. I don't think select players deserve all the bad comments they get. What do you think???

Since: Jan 07

Hopatcong, NJ

#29 Apr 10, 2007
Library Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
My head hurt after reading your directionless post. I went back and looked at your previous posts, and now I'm even less clear on what your point is. So you're optimistic about the draft, because you think we can get a natural center; you're pessimistic about the draft because we apparently have no first round draft pick; you don't think we should criticize the team; you are critical of management, because they make too many trades; you think management should have traded for Rasheed before he had won any championships; you think people like me like or hate the Colts/Pacers depending on their last win; you think people like me are infatuated with Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitski, even though they hadn't won any championships. Wow. That's a masterpiece, Makai. My dog's farts make more sense than your posts.
I am giving my opinion on some things that I believe. This is more than I can say for you. You seem to only be commenting on what I put forth.

For instance, I THINK that certain players are getting blamed way too much for the problems the Pacers are having. Maybe its time for Donny to retire and Bird to move on. What do you think????
Library Mom

Atlanta, GA

#30 Apr 11, 2007
Makai wrote:
<quoted text>
I am giving my opinion on some things that I believe. This is more than I can say for you. You seem to only be commenting on what I put forth.
For instance, I THINK that certain players are getting blamed way too much for the problems the Pacers are having. Maybe its time for Donny to retire and Bird to move on. What do you think????
I apologize for my earlier post, which I can see was meanspirited. Personally, I think the character of the team needs to be changed. Tinsley needs to go; aside from the charge he's facing, I saw a couple games recently and he just doesn't seem to care about the team. Which is in contrast to his previous years, in my opinion. I think Carlisle needs to go, because he takes the fun out of the game by micromanaging too much, and he doesn't seem to know how to connect with the players. I think O'Neal should go, because I don't think he's a franchise guy, and I don't see how the Pacers can get a franchise guy without getting rid of O'Neal. I do think O'Neal will be a great player on another team, when he can compliment another player who is as good or better than him, and I'll definitely root for him. Next, I don't think it's the coach's job to "handle" players who show a lack of responsibility and respect for others. To do so would be to show an extreme lack of respect for the players. They're grown men, and they should act like it. Finally, I've never pulled for us to get Nowitski or Nash, and I have no idea what made you think I did.

Since: Jan 07

Sewaren, NJ

#31 Apr 11, 2007
Library Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
I apologize for my earlier post, which I can see was meanspirited. Personally, I think the character of the team needs to be changed. Tinsley needs to go; aside from the charge he's facing, I saw a couple games recently and he just doesn't seem to care about the team. Which is in contrast to his previous years, in my opinion. I think Carlisle needs to go, because he takes the fun out of the game by micromanaging too much, and he doesn't seem to know how to connect with the players. I think O'Neal should go, because I don't think he's a franchise guy, and I don't see how the Pacers can get a franchise guy without getting rid of O'Neal. I do think O'Neal will be a great player on another team, when he can compliment another player who is as good or better than him, and I'll definitely root for him. Next, I don't think it's the coach's job to "handle" players who show a lack of responsibility and respect for others. To do so would be to show an extreme lack of respect for the players. They're grown men, and they should act like it. Finally, I've never pulled for us to get Nowitski or Nash, and I have no idea what made you think I did.
Library Mom, I don't believe that letting another player go is the solution. I think that all of the players are disinterested in the Carlisle offensive approach. I think that Jermaine O'neal is playing out of position. He is a power foward and when he is able to play in his rightful position he is as dominant as any other player in that position. I don't think that Indiana knows how to handle players that are accustomed to playing a more "wide open" game. I think the combination of Tinsley and the "old man, Armstrong" are very strong. One has style the other has grit. No one can break a press like Tinsley. I also do not think that certain kinds of tempermental players are easily stomached by the Indiana culture.

I also believe Rick Carlisle went to the Eastern Conference finals with the team that Isaiah Thomas built, only to be beat by the team Joe Dumars built (Isaiahs backcourt mate when he played for the Pistons and the one who fired Carlisle), there is something ironic about that to me. If you are going to play with the "big dogs" you need players who can bang with them. Many of these types of players are what the "bad boys" of Detroit had, and this was the type of team Isaiah was after.

I didn't mean to imply that you personally want Dirk or Nash, it just seems like they are what everyone is clamouring for. Both of them are great offensive talents, but it would appear that the toughness necessary to complete the process is lacking.
Library Mom

United States

#32 Apr 11, 2007
I think Indiana's been spoiled, first by Reggie Miller, who never got into trouble and always showed his appreciation for the fans, even in his early days when the team wasn't doing as well, and by the Colts who, with a some minor exceptions, are the class of the NFL. I agree that Carlisle doesn't know how to manage a wide open game, and I would have agreed with you about Tinsley last year, but from what I've seen this year, he's on a sharp decline, not as far as skill or athletic abilities, but as far as losing his head. In my opinion, the guy seriously needs an intervention.

I think you do Dumars a disservice by comparing his management and scouting abilities to Isaiah's. Isaiah didn't build the Pacers team; he inherited a kick ass team and led them to the bare minimum. Isaiah's moved on and collected wannabe star players like he's playing fantasy basketball, while Dumars gathered a group of unselfish role players and a couple stars, all of whom knew how to play together without stepping on each other's toes. If Isaiah does anything impressive before being tossed out of the league (and simply making the playoffs won't qualify), I'll be absolutely amazed.

I think we need to stick with Granger, Armstrong, Diogu (assuming he learns how to pass out of the paint), and the other young guys, and I guess we have no choice but to keep Murphy and Dunleavy because of their contracts, but I think the rest of the guys are expendable. I agree that O'Neal is playing out of position and is much better as a power forward, but I don't see how we can compliment him with a legitimate center now that we have Murphy on the hook for the foreseeable future. I think if we have O'Neal, a good center, and Granger, complimented by solid role players (and an unselfish starting point guard), we'll be in great shape. But as I said, where are we going to get a good center?
G-Funk

United States

#33 Apr 11, 2007
LO WANTS OUT AND IF HE DOES GET TRADED HE MOSTLY LIKELY END UP IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE, THAT BEING SAID I THINK THAT A TRADE WITH THE LAKERS WOULD BE PROPER!!! A TRADE THAT INVOLVES O'NEIL-LAMAR ODOM & 1 OF THE LEAUGES BIGGEST PROSPECTS IN ANDREW BYNUM!

Since: Jan 07

Sewaren, NJ

#34 Apr 11, 2007
G-Funk wrote:
LO WANTS OUT AND IF HE DOES GET TRADED HE MOSTLY LIKELY END UP IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE, THAT BEING SAID I THINK THAT A TRADE WITH THE LAKERS WOULD BE PROPER!!! A TRADE THAT INVOLVES O'NEIL-LAMAR ODOM & 1 OF THE LEAUGES BIGGEST PROSPECTS IN ANDREW BYNUM!
Get Real!!!
gfunk

United States

#35 Apr 11, 2007
what you mean get real??? ur man o'neil said it will be best if they part ways if they don't get nowhere! where are are they now???nowhere but on the lottery lineup!lol!!!

Since: Jan 07

Hopatcong, NJ

#36 Apr 11, 2007
Library Mom wrote:
I think Indiana's been spoiled, first by Reggie Miller, who never got into trouble and always showed his appreciation for the fans, even in his early days when the team wasn't doing as well, and by the Colts who, with a some minor exceptions, are the class of the NFL. I agree that Carlisle doesn't know how to manage a wide open game, and I would have agreed with you about Tinsley last year, but from what I've seen this year, he's on a sharp decline, not as far as skill or athletic abilities, but as far as losing his head. In my opinion, the guy seriously needs an intervention.
I think you do Dumars a disservice by comparing his management and scouting abilities to Isaiah's. Isaiah didn't build the Pacers team; he inherited a kick ass team and led them to the bare minimum. Isaiah's moved on and collected wannabe star players like he's playing fantasy basketball, while Dumars gathered a group of unselfish role players and a couple stars, all of whom knew how to play together without stepping on each other's toes. If Isaiah does anything impressive before being tossed out of the league (and simply making the playoffs won't qualify), I'll be absolutely amazed.
I think we need to stick with Granger, Armstrong, Diogu (assuming he learns how to pass out of the paint), and the other young guys, and I guess we have no choice but to keep Murphy and Dunleavy because of their contracts, but I think the rest of the guys are expendable. I agree that O'Neal is playing out of position and is much better as a power forward, but I don't see how we can compliment him with a legitimate center now that we have Murphy on the hook for the foreseeable future. I think if we have O'Neal, a good center, and Granger, complimented by solid role players (and an unselfish starting point guard), we'll be in great shape. But as I said, where are we going to get a good center?
Your points are well said.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Danny Granger Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
George leads Pacers to 91-84 win over Raptors (Nov '13) Nov '13 Duck Afflis 1
Steve Nash trade rumors: Indiana Pacers trade c... (Feb '13) Feb '13 Javier 1
Pacers aim to bounce back against Wizards (Mar '12) Mar '12 jovannycarrillo 1
NBA Draft 2011: Hometown Kid George Hill, Futur... (Jun '11) Jul '11 Do tell 3
Indiana Pacers' Danny Granger (left) goes up fo... (Apr '11) Jun '11 Raygay Trannie 2
Albuquerque team wins title at Battle of Border (Mar '10) Apr '11 Coach City 29
Pacers: Rose gets too many calls (Apr '11) Apr '11 Herbjr0120 1
•••
•••
Enter and win $5000
•••

Danny Granger People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••