Battling tougher defenses puts Jordan...

Battling tougher defenses puts Jordan ahead of Kobe

There are 32 comments on the Newsday story from Mar 25, 2007, titled Battling tougher defenses puts Jordan ahead of Kobe. In it, Newsday reports that:

Never mind 65, 60, and 50 . To me, 20 is the most impressive number linked to Kobe Bryant's scoring spree.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

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Portland, OR

#21 Jun 3, 2007
Kobe did not face better athletes… Jordan played people like Clyde Drexler, Magic Johnson, Dominique Wilkins. And taking the ball down low Hakim Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo, and way more. Before you can even compare Kobe to Jordan, he needs to first be better then people below Jordan like Magic Johnson, and many others.
Thailand blows

Pasadena, CA

#22 Jun 15, 2007
joe (aol) You are a f-ing idiot.

United States

#23 Nov 21, 2007
Is Kobe better than Jordan?
This is what I think about the most fun watched guard of our time, I think he’s an exciting player to watch, in person and on screen. He’s one of the most skillful players of all time; his game has continuously drawn attention. You see this is what I like about the player, people talk all the time, they say he’s nothing, they say he’s garbage, they say he’s a fake Jordan,-“he will never be better than Jordan”. All of this has been said here and there, but statistics don’t lie. The man doesn’t even have to defend him self, he just plays ball, and look at the commotion. Never had I’ve heard a comment coming from Kobe proclaiming his heir to the throne of the NBA’s greatest.
Another thing, Kobe Bryant is only 28 YEARS OLD and he’s arguably being compared to Michael Jordan already! Michael at age 28 was over shadowed by other greats with the likes of Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Dominique Wilkins. Again let me remind you haters out there, you are arguing your point with statistics, NBA commentators, and other contributors to the game. Time will tell if he’s the greatest B-ball player of all time. Put it like this, Jordan retired for good at 40!… Kobe is only 28; we got 12 years of more excitement and more electrifying games from this young man.
Now saying all of this, Jordan is indeed a great ball player, one of the greatest in sports history. His contributions to the game of basketball transformed the game to what we see in superstar athletes today. He basically singled handily revolutionized the games, by becoming a skillful all around player, who offers a multidimensional game on the court. He played excellent defense, he could shoot from three-point land, he can post up, he can change directions while penetrating the lane, and he could be a quick jumper, the …ultimate clutch player, and much more. He was way before his time. All the things Kobe has done, but in a shorter time frame.
Kobe’s contribution to the game is this, basically winning games all by his self, Cinderella-like fourth quarter comebacks. I’ve seen how the Lakers were down for the count at the start of fourth quarter by at most 30points. You may have seen the number 8 or the number 24 help make these infamous winning runs in the fourth, but what I saw was Kobe wearing passion and heart, a different perspective in which most players don’t have. For once there is someone who wins games through his heart, someone who basically plays for the love of the sport.“….”
The number one question is not whether or not he’s better than Jordan, but can YOU accept the fact that there will always be a SUCCESSOR? There will always be someone better. Again, I’ve never heard this man say once that he’s the greatest of all time; and almost a civil war has broken out with NBA fans all over. This man hasn’t uttered one word regarding the fact; and there is uproar about this debate. I’ll say this, he must be doing something right because he’s just now reaching his prime!

United States

#24 Nov 21, 2007
Thats comment was written last year. Just FYI!! I still beleive he's better.

Canyon Country, CA

#25 Dec 7, 2007
JBarber wrote:
Jordan played in a hands-on era of perimeter defense. Bryant has benefited from the relatively recent crackdown on grabbing, clutching and hand-checking on the perimeter.
Clearly, Bryant would have been an all-time great in any era. But the fact is, he wouldn't be this great if those guarding him were allowed to play defense.
Going by what the he said in the first paragraph, I think the writer should have said "allowed to GRAB, CLUTCH, and HAND-CHECK." as opposed to "allowed to play DEFENSE." Does he think these are the same thing?
well in my opinion, jordan's era had no zone defense so the players should be allowed more physical defense, but now in kobe's era they allow zone defenses which when used, kobe is forced to take more jumpshots. if you allow both zone defenses and very physical defense, there's nothing a player can really do

El Paso, TX

#26 Jan 18, 2008
You Kobe fanboys are idiots. Better athlete? Better shooter? Do you guys hear yourselves? LOL!! I don't recall Kobe having a '42-'44 vertical..Kobe's is listed at '38. I don't recall Kobe CONSISTENTLY running a 4.2 in the 40 yard dash..Kobe's time is listed at 4.6!

MJ had a better team? Kobe's the one that drafted & traded to a team with championship pieces in place, not MJ! MJ came to a team that hadn't been to the playoffs since '81 & only won 27 games the year prior to his arrival! Pippen & Grant didn't arrive until '87..Kerr & Kukoc didn't arrive until '94 (the year after he retired) & rodman didn't come until '96!

Here's what MJ combined averages in the years "BEFORE" Pippen & Co.:

33.7 ppg
6 rebounds
5.3 assists
2.74 steals
1.26 blocks
49.3 FG%
85.1 FT%

OVERALL, that's "BETTER" than "ANYTHING" kobe has managed to CONSISTENTLY do for his CAREER! MJ put up better #'s when he "DIDN'T" have a team, & "WHILE" he had a team. Hell, during his Wizards years he did this:

MJ's "WIZARDS" avgs: 21 ppg, 4 apg & 4 rpg "42% FG"

After turning 40, MJ AVERAGED 23.2 pts, 7.2 reb. 4.1 ast, 1.5 stls, 1.0 blks on 46.2% shooting just FIVE seasons ago, against these so-called "more advanced players"!

He put up those numbers over 30 games again, after turning 40! There's not more than 10 players from the 2-guard position in the league TODAY, who can "CONSISTENTLY" put up a line BETTER than that!

Now compare that to kobe's Finals & Career averages:

KB "FINALS" avgs: 22.1 ppg, 4 apg, 5 rpg, "41.6% FG"
KB "CAREER" avgs: 24.4 ppg, 4.3 apg, 5.1 rpg, "45% FG"

MJ at 40 years old, in "2" years, managed to put together an "OVERALL" average that's virtually "IDENTICAL" to kobe's averages in both the Finals & his Career marks, against these these B.S. "Quasi" so called zones & I call 'em that because they "AREN'T" "Real Zones"! The 3-sec Rule "TOTALLY" kills that notion. The "Jordan Rules" were more of a zone than what we see today. These "quasi-zones" were put in place to boost ratings by encouraging team scoring. This was a wake left by MJ since the current perimeter players couldn't score with the tough 90s defensive style in play.

Ever notice KB's offensive production "SIGNIFICANTLY" improved "AFTER" they implemented the Defensive Rule changes? Then again it would make perfect sense that Kobe would struggle against anything resembling a zone, seeing as how he opted to skip college.

6 of MJ's Scoring Titles came with him shooting 50% or Higher from the field..
Kobe meanwhile has 0 Scoring Titles over 47%; 0 years of 30ppg 6apg & 6rpg. MJ put up some of the greatest "CAREER" averages, while Kobe chases "SINGLE GAME" records. U guys try & put him on MJ's level when he does great, but will TOTALLY ignore the ridiculous amount of sub 40% games he has. "HE" even admitted that he, nor Lebron compares to MJ, & that was right after he scored 81 pts. It gets annoying when U homers repeatedly make these lame excuses for his poor FG% or why he can't win without Shaq or why his CAREER #'s "DON'T" compare to MJ's..

I can assure U guys, you'll NEVER see Kobe getting HIGH scores UNLESS he shoots OVER 10 3's a game. He RELIES on getting quick points that way since his athleticism PALES in comparison to MJ's in his Prime. Not to mention he can't make CONSISTENT shots to get the 'And 1'. He AVERAGES about 10 3's, in EVERY game he goes for 50+ pts. That's the difference between how he scores & how MJ did it. MJ didn't NEED the 3 pointer to get his, Kobe does..

El Paso, TX

#27 Jan 18, 2008

30+ points per game: MJ 8 > KB 3
25+ points per game: MJ 12 > KB 6
Shooting over 50%: MJ 6 > KB 0
Shooting over 47%: MJ 10 > KB 0
Shooting over 45%: MJ 12 > KB 7
Shooting over 40% in 3 pointers: MJ 2 > KB 0
Shooting over 35% in 3 pointers: MJ 5 > KB 2
Shooting over 37% in 3 pointers: MJ 4 > KB 2
6+ rebounds per game: MJ 9 > KB 2
6+ assists per game: MJ 3 > KB 1
5+ assists per game: MJ 9 > KB 6
2.5+ steals per game: MJ 6 > KB 0
2+ steals per game: MJ 10 > KB 1
200 steals in a season: MJ 2 > KB 0
100+ blocks in a season: MJ 2 > KB 0
75+ blocks: MJ 4 > KB 0

MJ has 70 Individual records.."ALL HIS".
Kobe has 5.."ALL SHARED"

And Kobe's supposed to be "BETTER"? LOL!! That's BLASPHEMOUS to even suggest so. And these are just "SOME" of the individual accolades!!

It's time for U Kobe 'Homers' to leave that land of yours called "Eden" that's perched on the banks of "Denial" & get real about this guy & who he really is as a player. No player, who's supposed to be the "SUPERIOR" of the two, CONSISTENTLY post "INFERIOR" marks between the two. Get Real Kobe 'Homers' & stop with the lame excuses!!
Wild Bill

United States

#28 Jan 18, 2008
scoring means nothing, it's all about the rings

El Paso, TX

#29 Jan 18, 2008
Wild Bill wrote:
scoring means nothing, it's all about the rings
I wouldn't say scoring means nothing, but I "DEFINITELY" feel where you're coming from.

MJ without a shadow of a doubt, is the Greatest Playoff Performer & in my humble opinion, the Greatest Road Player Ever because "MOST" of his greatest feats happened ON THE ROAD!!

The #1 stat that "WINS" games is FG%. Efficiency is the BIG MAN'S GAME. MJ was/is the "ONLY" perimeter player to have the efficiency stats of the Greatest Centers Ever. Not only that, he ranks above ALL OF THEM at #1 in PER (Player Efficiency Rating).

They say one should never say never..well..I'm saying this will "NEVER" happen again - ever! As scouts say, you look for the next big man - not the next MJ because it's not happening.

The league average in MJ's prime 1984-93, was about 48%..MJ shot 52%-- 53% as a guard!!

And It is "ALL" about the Rings.

"ALL" of these guys lost these series with "HOME COURT ADVANTAGE", which means they were the favorite.

If someone was injured like a main star then that factors in, but if not, that doesn't factor in the discussion:

Wilt Chamberlain (lost in ’60-61,’65-66,’67-68,’68-69,’7 2-73)
Magic Johnson (lost in ’80-81,’85-86,’89-90)
Kareem (lost in ’72-73,’73-74,’76-77,’80-81,’8 5-86)
Larry Bird (lost in ’79-80,’81-82,’82-83,’84-85,’8 7-88,
Oscar Robertson (lost in ’61-62,’64-65,’72-73,’73-74)
Jerry West (lost in ’68-69,’72-73)
Shaq (lost in ’93-94,’94-95,’03-04)
Hakeem (lost in ’84-85,’86-87)
Duncan (lost in ’00-01,’03-04)
Bill Russell (lost in 1958)- however he was injured

MJ "NEVER LOST" a series with Homecourt advantage/better seed/better record. What does that mean? Well, he's the "ONLY" LEGEND to "NEVER" lose a series in which his team was considered the favorite & better team.

All the other legends lost series.

Also consider the following:

Is 18% a good percentage?

In what you might ask... 18% winning percentage...

Pretty awful right?

Well in 60 years of NBA Basketball only 11 league leading scorers have won a championship... That's 18.3%...

Their names are: Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, George Mikan & Joe Fulks...

"MOST" of these players were Dominant Centers, who did more than just score.

That means that non centers who led the league in scoring have won in an amazing 10% of the time.. & only one player did it... Michael Jordan & amazingly, in one era! That'll "NEVER" happen again..

10% winning historically!!! 10 PERCENT!!!

I will argue that the odds are against a high scoring guard from winning it all...ALL DAY EVERYDAY & I like my chances in winning that argument EVERYTIME...

Waukesha, WI

#30 May 23, 2008
4 anyone that thinks kobe is better then jordan is simple dumb kobe has done nothing without shaq jordan retired and the bulls did nothing he comes back and wins 3 more wake up people get off kobe nuts he is the biggiest cry baby in basketball jordan played with all the greats every team when jordan played had 2 or 3 superstars on it wake up and willie you are truly a dumb ass

Sterling Heights, MI

#31 Dec 5, 2008
Kobe still has a long way to go until he retires. He has to play against zone defenses like the Celtics last year and it is too hard. Kobe said he wished he played in Jordan's era because it is easier then now. Jordan had no competition Kobe has competition now and he is a great shooter.

Olympia, WA

#32 Feb 11, 2009
Jordan played against a true zone (no Defensive 3-sec rule involved) in college, shot 54% from the floor and scored about 20 PPG....Dean Smith held him back from scoring much more.

Jordan had no competition......because he buried them. And did likewise coming back into the league at twice the age of the AI's, Carter's, T-Mac's of the world, even at the age of 40, still popped up 40+ and 50+ games. Imagine a prime Jordan (pre 1st retirement) against these guys today.

As far as Kobe being a better scorer than MJ. MJ is the one who has NBA records in PPG (30.1) playoff PPG (33.4) and most points scored in a Finals (also hit 41 PPG in a Finals which could be an NBA record). He hit 55 in regulation of the 63 against Boston. Kobe's best scoring games were against the Grizzlies, Clippers, and Raptors of the world. He hasn't hit for 40 in an NBA Finals game. His highest PPG's for Finals series's matches MJ's lowest PPG's.

Kobe didn't start receiving double and triple teams (with the ball) until AFTER Shaq left. Jordan had a career of this.

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