Pacers deter Mavericks' run

Pacers deter Mavericks' run

There are 72 comments on the The Indianapolis Star story from Nov 23, 2007, titled Pacers deter Mavericks' run. In it, The Indianapolis Star reports that:

It's no secret the run was going to come. The Dallas Mavericks, one of the best teams in the NBA, had overcome double-figure deficits to pull out victories in their past two games.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Indianapolis Star.

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Pacer Pontiff

South Bend, IN

#61 Nov 24, 2007
Not sure why everyone is so down on Tinsley. He will be the most improved player in O'Brien's system... so far he's got the 5th most assists in the league, is 7th in league in assists per game and has a better assist to turnover ratio than Jason Kidd and Steve Nash. Normally, I would agree with the Tinsley rants, but he's been a better player all year and I expect it will continue.

Remember, AI's stats were his best ever playing for O'Brien. Trust me, the Pacers will not deal Tinsley.
Pacer

Pitsburg, OH

#62 Nov 24, 2007
Good Timin Beach Boy wrote:

"One great game doesn't make a season. San Antonio was a basket from winning this game. JO has consistently been one of the best in the game. He played another coach's game last year, many times on one leg. Give him time to get healthy and see how it goes...trade deadline is still many weeks ahead."

We played Dallas and not San Antonio.I don't know how you came up with San Antonio short of winning with one basket. Wake up man!
Risk Prof

United States

#63 Nov 24, 2007
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair, the Bulls were not a bad team when Jordan left the first time and Pippen took over. As I recall, Pippen became the first player in league history (I think) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocked shots in a single season.
...And probably the same thing could be said about Kobe, but how many banners do the Lakers have post-Shaq?
I like Jermaine okay, but this is a better team w/o him. If Tinsley becomes consistent, I might start to tolerate him, but he has to show up every night.
ROGER VANDIVER

Clarksville, IN

#64 Nov 24, 2007
THIS SHOWS (A RECORD OF 3-0) THAT THE PACERS PLAY BETTER AS A TEAM, WITHOUT JERMAINE CLOGGING UP THE MIDDLE AND SLOWING DOWN THE TEMPO OF THE GAME. TRADE HIM AS SOON AS HE'S HEALED, AND GET SOME VALUE FOR HIM. HE'S GONNA BOLT WHEN THE SEASON IS OVER ANYWAY. WHY NOT GET SOMEONE NOW, SO WE CAN GET HIM USE TO OUR SYSTEM NOW, SO HE'LL DO US SOME GOOD THE REST OF THE YEAR.
Bokonon

United States

#65 Nov 24, 2007
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm interested to see how you would make those salaries match.
I can dream, can't I?
Adam

Springfield, IL

#66 Nov 24, 2007
Risk Prof wrote:
<quoted text>
...And probably the same thing could be said about Kobe, but how many banners do the Lakers have post-Shaq?
I like Jermaine okay, but this is a better team w/o him. If Tinsley becomes consistent, I might start to tolerate him, but he has to show up every night.
The thing is, you totally jumped off-topic and onto another point completely. The original poster I replied to said nothing about winning championships.. only that Pippen couldn't be a leader on his team without Jordan (which anyone should be able to see is untrue, given the kind of season he had). That Bulls team didn't win a championship without Jordan either, but they weren't a BAD team without him. That's all I was getting at. Just like the Lakers haven't won any banners since Shaq left, but they haven't been a terrible team (not as good as the Jordan'less Bulls, but not terrible).
Joe

Dayton, OH

#67 Nov 24, 2007
Train wrote:
Is it just me or do the Pacers look much better in the games that JO is out compared to when he plays?
Food for thought.
100% correct. He must go. When he plays, they slow down and lose. JO cannot run nor jump. When he is out, they run and win. End of story.
Bokonon

United States

#68 Nov 24, 2007
Pacer Pontiff wrote:
Not sure why everyone is so down on Tinsley. He will be the most improved player in O'Brien's system... so far he's got the 5th most assists in the league, is 7th in league in assists per game and has a better assist to turnover ratio than Jason Kidd and Steve Nash. Normally, I would agree with the Tinsley rants, but he's been a better player all year and I expect it will continue.
Remember, AI's stats were his best ever playing for O'Brien. Trust me, the Pacers will not deal Tinsley.
Yeah, you're right. We should just sit back and enjoy his assist to turnover ratio when he gets his shot wiped 3x in a row during the last 3 minutes.

“Hoosier fan in Tarheel land”

Since: Oct 07

Mount Olive, NC

#69 Nov 24, 2007
pacemaker wrote:
really pippin no good? what about that mvp he got the season jordan retired? or the one game he was away from the nba finals with half a team and no jordan?
nice try.
I apologize for going off topic, but you made it necessary regarding my comparison of JO to Pippen:

First, Pippen did not get the league MVP - he was MVP of the all-star game, a big difference.

Second, after falling short of the finals the year Jordan left, the Pippen led Bulls were 34-31 and no lock to make the playoffs before Jordan returned to save their butts.

Third, here's a classic sample of Pippen's leadership after Jordan left the team:

Perhaps the most infamous episode of Pippen's career came in the post-season of Pippen's first year without Jordan, the 1993-94 playoffs, where the Eastern Conference semifinals pitted the Bulls against their bitter rivals, the New York Knicks. On May 13, 1994, down 2-0 in the series and tied 102-102 in Game Three, Bulls coach Phil Jackson needed a big play from his team to have any hope of advancing to the next round of the playoffs. With 1.8 seconds left and the score tied, Jackson designed the last play for Toni Kuko&#269;, with Pippen relegated to simply inbounding the basketball. Pippen, who had been the Bulls' leader all season long in Jordan's absence, was so angered by Jackson's decision to not let him take the potential game-winner that he refused to leave the bench and re-enter the game when the timeout was over.

Although Kuko&#269; did eventually hit the game-winner, a 23-foot fadeaway jumper, there was little celebrating to be done by the Bulls, as television cameras caught an unsmiling Phil Jackson storming out of the arena. "Scottie asked out of the play," Jackson would tell reporters moments later in the post-game interview room. Those seeking further answers found Pippen in the locker room after the game, looking shell-shocked and disoriented; when asked to confirm Jackson's statement, Pippen could only respond with "Yeah, pretty much ... We exchanged words, and I just took a seat."

Teammate Steve Kerr elaborated when recently asked to recall the event: "I was shocked," he said. "The only way to describe it was total disbelief. Here was a guy who had done so much for our team, who had been our leader all year long. He was, and still is, one of the greatest teammates I've ever had. But on that day, I think all the pressure and frustration of our season caught up with him, and he snapped." Pippen later apologized to his teammates after the incident.

This is classic JO - type behavior. Good stats, great talk, but when the chips are down he cannot be counted on.

Fourth, Pippen failed to provide leadership when paired with two all-time top 50 players in Houston:

"Pippen's trade to Houston received a lot of publicity including his only solo cover of Sports Illustrated.[2] While there he teamed with Hakeem Olajuwon and Charles Barkley to form one of the best front lines in NBA history, but his failure to assume the "franchise" mantle from Olajuwon led to chemistry problems (with Barkley in particular) and eventually his departure."

The point of drawing the comparison between JO and Pippen was that JO, like Pippen, was statistically strong and a great role player - but an utter failure when called upon to carry the mantle of franchise player....

“Hoosier fan in Tarheel land”

Since: Oct 07

Mount Olive, NC

#70 Nov 24, 2007
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair, the Bulls were not a bad team when Jordan left the first time and Pippen took over. As I recall, Pippen became the first player in league history (I think) to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocked shots in a single season.
Agreed - my point was that Pippen was statistically great, but could not lead a team...just like JO.
CWT

AOL

#71 Nov 25, 2007
It seems apparent the Jermaine O'Neal is not cut out for this offence. When he is in the game we lose--when out we win more often. He is a great player, shot blocker but he is half court post up player that changes the offensive set.
LSA

Denver, CO

#72 Nov 25, 2007
In order for the Pacers to move O'Neal they need to play him to show he is healthy enough to play. The catch-22 is when O'Neal plays the Pacers have the best chance at loosing. The more O'Neal sits on the bench the more his value drops. The more he plays.......well we know the result.

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