Small lineup, Ben Gordon block propel...

Small lineup, Ben Gordon block propel Bulls

There are 33 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Dec 6, 2008, titled Small lineup, Ben Gordon block propel Bulls. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

Consistent production from Bulls big men has been a dominant story line all season, so Ben Gordon decided to take matters in his own hands - or, more accurately, finger.

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Steve

Palatine, IL

#1 Dec 6, 2008
Hey KC why was VDN scolding after the game?
Chris Carr

Chicago, IL

#2 Dec 6, 2008
Really good ball movement throughout most of the game, hopefully this trend continues
Now Wait a Minute

Munster, IN

#3 Dec 6, 2008
Not impressed. played a weaker team and it took them more than a quarter to figure it out.
as usual, when hughes is the recipient of the flow rather trying to make his own shots, he is great.
still, there is something wrong with del negro in letting gordon controll the ball. or is it that his teammates are too plain stupid to understand how to setup with rose trying to organize a play?
Illinifan

Chicago, IL

#4 Dec 6, 2008
Now Wait a Minute wrote:
still, there is something wrong with del negro in letting gordon controll the ball. or is it that his teammates are too plain stupid to understand how to setup with rose trying to organize a play?
Couldn't agree with you more. To quote Stacy King, "Give Derrick Rose the Ball." I'm freakin' sick of watching Gordon loitering with the ball at the top of the key with Rose in the game. Ben needs to know his roll.
dils

Lansing, IL

#5 Dec 7, 2008
Illinifan wrote:
<quoted text>
Couldn't agree with you more. To quote Stacy King, "Give Derrick Rose the Ball." I'm freakin' sick of watching Gordon loitering with the ball at the top of the key with Rose in the game. Ben needs to know his roll.
Man, cut Gordon some slack. What he put up? What 21 pts, 7 asts, 3 reb, a monster momentum changing block on 9 of 15 shooting? What else you want from the guy. That's good production from your 2 guard. I'm getting tired of people in this town slamming Ben because it's the "in" thing to do. Yeah he dribbles too much and turns the ball over but he plays well with Derrick, puts up over 20 a game without shooting a million shots, spread the floor, and contrary to popular belief, hasn't been that bad defensively. By the way, why did Rose's assist total go up since Ben's been a starter in the lineup?
MattM

Trumbull, CT

#6 Dec 7, 2008
The Gordon haters are just plain retreds who know nothing about hoops, and can't handle the fact the Gordon is a very good player.
Pete

United States

#7 Dec 7, 2008
It's not Gordon hating. While he is an excellent scorer, he indeed needs to play within himself. Gordon at the top of the key when Rose is in the game MAKES NO SENSE because Gordon doesn't see the court as well as Rose does, does not handle the ball as well as Rose does, and doesn't look to involve teammates as well as Rose does. The point is that it is more likely there will be a turnover or a player will get the ball in a bad position and/or with little time on the clock and that the Bulls will get nothing from the possession.
BullsFan

Gary, IN

#8 Dec 7, 2008
The Ben Gordon Hate really needs to stop. Yes,Rose's assist total did go up every sense BG entered the staring lineup. heis Defense this season has actually been pretty good to be honest.

It was a great team gameand everybody benifited from it. Deng, Nocioni, Hughes, and even Gooden and Gray play well despite not so great shooting.
Rose and BG in the Backcourt has been very successful.

So lets be happy and Hope that we can get a GOOD bigman in here with these guys soon. Thats our biggest weakness and piece holding us up.
MattM

Trumbull, CT

#9 Dec 7, 2008
Pete wrote:
It's not Gordon hating. While he is an excellent scorer, he indeed needs to play within himself. Gordon at the top of the key when Rose is in the game MAKES NO SENSE because Gordon doesn't see the court as well as Rose does, does not handle the ball as well as Rose does, and doesn't look to involve teammates as well as Rose does. The point is that it is more likely there will be a turnover or a player will get the ball in a bad position and/or with little time on the clock and that the Bulls will get nothing from the possession.
Pete, your points are nothing more than a pre-existing bias against Gordon rather than backed up by the numbers.
First, after last nights game where Gordon had 7 assts, and where his assts are up from a year ago and compare favorably with shooting guards in the NBA, hogging the ball and not seeing the floor are just WRONG points.
As for the turnovers, with about the same minutes, Rose turnovers per game are more than Gordons. Now for all you brain surgeons out there, heres the POINT. For LESS turnovers per Game than Rose, you HEAR, READ, that Gordon is a turnover machine, yet you don't hear ANYTHING about ROSE's turnovers. I am not comparing ROSE to GORDON, I am comaparing the NEGATIVTY to Gordon vs ROSE on the same stat.

Pete, you would have 1 set, Rose on the top of the Key, you would Rose play 48 minutes per, Of course there are going to be times when Gordon initiates the offense from the top. Something that he is more than capable of.
Now Wait a Minute

Munster, IN

#10 Dec 7, 2008
The Ben Gordon love has got to stop.
If any of you young ones would have watched basketball from the 60's thru the 90's, Gordon would be at best the 7th guy in the game.
Plays defense? Give me a break. The other team salivates drawing him into picks he can't get out of.
You can't be a 42% shooter (at best) and be a scorer. His numbers are misleading because he hogs way too many shots.
If anything, his numbers have gotten better because of Rose as he has been embarassed into trying to pass to others and grab rebounds.
The ultimate me-guy who thinks he is the savior.
Pete

United States

#11 Dec 7, 2008
MattM wrote:
<quoted text>
Pete, your points are nothing more than a pre-existing bias against Gordon rather than backed up by the numbers.
First, after last nights game where Gordon had 7 assts, and where his assts are up from a year ago and compare favorably with shooting guards in the NBA, hogging the ball and not seeing the floor are just WRONG points.
As for the turnovers, with about the same minutes, Rose turnovers per game are more than Gordons. Now for all you brain surgeons out there, heres the POINT. For LESS turnovers per Game than Rose, you HEAR, READ, that Gordon is a turnover machine, yet you don't hear ANYTHING about ROSE's turnovers. I am not comparing ROSE to GORDON, I am comaparing the NEGATIVTY to Gordon vs ROSE on the same stat.
Pete, you would have 1 set, Rose on the top of the Key, you would Rose play 48 minutes per, Of course there are going to be times when Gordon initiates the offense from the top. Something that he is more than capable of.
Matt, the only person here who is biased is you. You have been biased ever since Gordon went to your local university.

What you fail to understand is that Gordon is better BECAUSE of Rose. Whatever the reasons, Gordon CANNOT HANDLE THE BALL. He is AWFUL.

What Gordon is though is a scorer. He is a great scorer. Again, he needs to play within himself. Having 7 assists in a game where even Deng had a handful of assists is NOT evidence that Gordon should handle the ball.
Illinifan

Chicago, IL

#12 Dec 7, 2008
Pete wrote:
<quoted text>

What you fail to understand is that Gordon is better BECAUSE of Rose. Whatever the reasons, Gordon CANNOT HANDLE THE BALL. He is AWFUL.
What Gordon is though is a scorer. He is a great scorer. Again, he needs to play within himself. Having 7 assists in a game where even Deng had a handful of assists is NOT evidence that Gordon should handle the ball.
That was my point. I wasn't hating, just being critical. I hope Ben stays on this team... he's been playing with a lot of heart this year and has been scoring more consistently.

And of course he has a right to create his own plays as often as anyone else, but when he's sitting up top with the ball for 8+ seconds not really doing anything, it gets aggravating. That's all. I'm not sure how often he actually does it, but it seems to happen multiple times a game, and is rarely fruitful.
dils

Lansing, IL

#13 Dec 7, 2008
Now Wait a Minute wrote:
The Ben Gordon love has got to stop.
If any of you young ones would have watched basketball from the 60's thru the 90's, Gordon would be at best the 7th guy in the game.
Plays defense? Give me a break. The other team salivates drawing him into picks he can't get out of.
You can't be a 42% shooter (at best) and be a scorer. His numbers are misleading because he hogs way too many shots.
If anything, his numbers have gotten better because of Rose as he has been embarassed into trying to pass to others and grab rebounds.
The ultimate me-guy who thinks he is the savior.
First of all, I love how people in this town have pigeonedholed a guy before he can show what he is. Who says that he is a 6th or 7th man? I guarantee 2 things: 1. If Ben Gordon was 6'6 no one would have a problem with his game. 2. If Kirk Hinrich had the game Gordon had last night, you'd be begging for his overpaid butt to get a an even newer, bigger contract! No one is arguing that Gordon has his down sides but to talk about him like he's a detriment to team is ridiculous. Let's make a deal, if you can name me a player on this team that's hit more game winning shots than Mr. Gordon, then I'll accept that he sucks. By the way, shooting 43% for his career from the field for a guy who shoots mostly jumpshots isn't that bad considering that Ray Allen is 44% and Kobe is 45%. I'm just saying.
Rod from Tennessee

AOL

#14 Dec 7, 2008
I'll give some credit to Del Negro, as he's picked up pretty quickly that due to the terrible choice of draft picks the last few seasons, he really has no choice if he hopes to win any games than to go with almost a college size lineup.

The Bulls have what probably amounts to 5, maybe 6 NBA quality players on their team, which is what scares me about keeping Paxson around as the GM. It's due to him the Bulls have such a scarcity of NBA talent, and how could anyone be comfortable that he could remedy the situation. And what makes matters worse, Paxson has the team maxed out on the salary cap, and one of their few talented players playing out his contract. So, unless Paxson could move some salary, Gordon will be gone after the season, and what if anything, is Paxson capable of finding with the 6 mil. that his leaving will free up?

Paxson has turned out to be a very poor choice as GM. I, like many others thought he might be ok with the job when he was hired, but it's not worked out at all. I can only hope that before this team decinegrates into a complete Clipper type franchise, Reinsdorf will make a move on this guy and get him out of here. Sometimes you just have to admit you've made a mistake and try and rectify it.
MattM

Trumbull, CT

#15 Dec 7, 2008
Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
Matt, the only person here who is biased is you. You have been biased ever since Gordon went to your local university.
What you fail to understand is that Gordon is better BECAUSE of Rose. Whatever the reasons, Gordon CANNOT HANDLE THE BALL. He is AWFUL.
What Gordon is though is a scorer. He is a great scorer. Again, he needs to play within himself. Having 7 assists in a game where even Deng had a handful of assists is NOT evidence that Gordon should handle the ball.
Can not handle the Ball is not based on FACTS...he can dribble drive past most , if not all the people defending him.( 2.32 Turnovers per game)
Gordon's numbers are over 5 years, and have been consisent for his career, long before Rose.
When Gordon leaves the Bulls this summer, we will see how Rose does without Gordon next fall.
terry t

Lahaina, HI

#16 Dec 7, 2008
well, there is bias against gordon. gordon represents less playing time for 'fan favorite' hinrich. the better gordon plays, the less you will see hinrich. hinrich himself knows that. thus, the disfunction of his and gordons' relationship. hinrich has spent 5 years attempting to keep gordon from exploding offensively and it has worked. but, as fate would have it, the good guys win in the end. hinrich has to watch from the sidelines while his 5 year block of work crumbles. these so called bulls fans, and i'm using the phrase 'bulls fans' loosely, don't care about winning or loosing. they just want to see hinrich out there. with hinrich out there, we will never get over the hump. he's a below average player at best. he will not be able to run with d rose. his supporters will overlook this and somehow blame gordon. they won't be satisfied until gordon is run out of town because they believe hinrinch will win the job by default. please stop bashing gordon for the afore mentioned reasons!
Nate

Stevensville, MI

#17 Dec 7, 2008
Matt....do you even watch Bulls games? Yes, Ben is the Bulls leading scorer and that's scarry. The problem is you don't know if he is going to have a good shooting night or bad. He can't finish at the rim like Rose. As a Bulls fan I've watch him to many times at the end of game drive and can't get up his shot.

And just because you can dribble past someone does not mean you can handle the ball. Do you remember the Detroit series? All they did was trap him. He couldn't handle it and could see the court to pass.

Oh yeah, Hughes hit a came winning shot so that makes it one more than Gordon.

Gordon had a good game last night but look who we were playing. Let see him have consistent good night against quality teams. So far he hasn't done it.
Nate

Stevensville, MI

#18 Dec 7, 2008
terry, living in CA i'm not sure how you know what "Bulls Fans" are saying. Fans here in Chicago are just as down on Kirk as Gordon. Especially last year after he signed is contract and went down hill. Hinrich is referred now as Kaptain Klank due to his shot leaving him after he signed his contract and is being included in trade scenarios just as much as Gordon.

Look at the Bucks game. Skiles wasn't concerned that Ben went on a scoring streak because he know Ben would blow it like all the times he has done when Skiles coached the Bulls.

Stick to hoops in CA and don't pretend you know what true "Bulls Fans" are saying.
terry t

Lahaina, HI

#19 Dec 7, 2008
nate, check the stats. gordon has his best shooting %'s against the best teams. it seems that guys like yourself just don't like gordons confidence and swagger. you have to have these things in order to be successful. you can't walk around holding your head down. scorers score. thats what they do. they are not perfect. you have to have a blend of talents in basketball. more good plays, less bad plays as a team. not individually. you also have to have a guy that is not afraid to take shots in crunch time. unless you are jordan, you can't expect a guy to make every play. that goes for the entire team. winning overrule everything. you do whatever it takes to win who cares about stats anyway. if you win, stats don't mean anything.
terry t

Lahaina, HI

#20 Dec 7, 2008
mr. nate, sir. i was born and raised in chicago. i'm more chicagoan than anyone. yes i live out here now and i'm looking forward to the day when i'm home for good. now that being said, i listened to games on the radio with jim durham annoucing them back in the 70's. i'm a van lier, sloan, chet walker, butterbean love, gilmore, theus, quinten daily, on and on, type of guy. i know more about bulls basketball than you can imagine. i'm a die-hard bulls guy. i've seen it all. dick motta, clifford ray, rick barry killing us when we should have won a championship. ed badger, 24-4 to end a season with wilbur holland and bobby wilkerson. don't tell me that were you live at the present has anything to do with your knowledge. where were you when gilmore and theus prowled the old stadium? huh, where were most of you guys pre jordan? you guys didn't exist. i read the sun-times and trib every day. i know what goes on there. you guys have been bashing gordon from day one. captain kirk,(seriously!) has been living on easy street until d rose. obviously hinrichs' days are numbered. obviously there was friction between gordon and hinrich. both guys know that they are not point guards, and eventually they would be fighting for a spot. the time has come. time to choose. fan favorite or 20 point per game. you make the call.

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