Sabathia ruins Padres' day

CLEVELAND: It was billed as a showdown between C.C. Sabathia and Greg Maddux, the implication being that the ace of the Indians' staff some day will reach hall-of-fame stature, as Maddux did long ago.

[Winter Haven Maven]

Uh, 5-5 won't win many CYs even with an 0.21 era in most years.

If Shapiro wants to put together a serious offer, he's going to have to count on not renewing Byrd for '09, collecting insurance on Westbrook for at least half the year next year and Hafner a large portion of this year and ridding the payroll of Delucci and possibly Blake next year. That clears about $20 million, leaving the only other relevant details as 1) not going over the 20%-of-payroll-to-any-one-play er golden rule and 2) C.C. not negotiating during the season. In that I doubt he'll be headed to the Big Apple during the break this year, I wouldn't be surprised if his agents get an offer, on the condition that this team continues to win series and stays competitive in the division heading into the break. If he holds to his guns, he'll probably get dealt regardless of the standings. If he takes it, Shapiro's got through the hot stove season to get the rest of the payroll straightened out.

[CO Tribe Fan]

5-5 is not the key number... it's the 2.21 era that says he's back on track. Your team has to score runs for you to get the W's.

The key to signing Sabathia is not the dollars.... it's the years. It has always been the years.... it will always be the years. The problem is that CC (or his agent) is going to want guaranteed 7 - 8 years. Dolan/Shapiro are going to offer 4 - 5.

Why?

Look at the DL? Carmona is on it... Westbrook is on it. That's just on the tribe. Check out how the other LT deals have paid off for the clubs. They don't..... And while CC is young, the LT deals on a pitcher have NEVER been successful for the team.

Dolan can afford to pay CC to play for 5 years... he can't pay CC to sit on the DL for the last 2.... especially when "fans" like OMG haven't opened their wallet to buy tickets or merchandise since 1995.

OMG... your calling Dolan cheap is the ultimate case of the pot calling the kettle black. You want Dolan to spend money, YOU spend some money.

This team was in contention all of last year and the only attendance burst came in the last 2 weeks of the season. This team finished 21st in attendance last year and the "fans" didn't show up to support them last year or this year.

[rufus]

the indians are leading the a/l in runs scored in the month of june. glory be.

[Stop Being Stupid]

OldManGrump wrote:

For all you Indians fans who want to trade CC before the season is done, three whips with a wet haluska noodle. The Tribe needs to sign him to that long term, high dollar contract he deserves.

Then you sign him. He will not get a long-term, big $$ deal YOU think he "deserves." Clubs are very hesitant to sign pitchers to long-term deals because of injuries. Jake Westbrook is a good example.

If you knew anything about sports (besides sounding stupid 24/7), you'd know this.

[Winter Haven Maven]

CO Tribe Fan wrote:

The key to signing Sabathia is not the dollars.... it's the years. It has always been the years.... it will always be the years. The problem is that CC (or his agent) is going to want guaranteed 7 - 8 years. Dolan/Shapiro are going to offer 4 - 5.

This is why, if I'm Dolan, I sit him down, without his agent, and say, "C.C., Bob Feller has been the face of this organization since he was 17 years old (sound familiar?) and has stuck with it through thick and thin. On blind faith, good ownership or bad, he's refused to pull his name off the team that took him in as a raw kid and made him into all he could be. Now C.C., Bob's a short-timer and, regardless of future ownership, you are the only one who is in a position to accept the mantle, indeed the only one that's been in that position in the last 50 years. I'll do the absolute best I can to address a fair and reasonable short-term compensation to you for as long as I'm in control of this team, but I want you to consider the extremely rare position you are in to secure your legacy, beyond your mortal years."

[duke wagner]

i would have rather seen them sign maddux than beat him.

[Ed Haas]

I feel, that with Sabathia being a rather large pitcher, his career, (unless he drastically loses weight) isn't going to be nearly as long as Maddux or other pitchers his age with lower weights. I'd trade him now, get some killer prospects and see where that goes. If the Tribe wants to spend money on someone, get a REAL hitting outfielder or 1st baseman. I love our team, but it seems that it's filled with role players and not legit MLB fielders. Outside of a couple gems in Victor and Sizemore that is. Our pitching throughout the minors is top notch when compared to other clubs, and if there is any team in the league that could absorb a hit in losing Sabathia, it's us. He'll be a closer in 5 years anyways.

[East Side Joe]

Trading CC represents yet another Cleveland surrender the kind of which we have seen since the early 1960s.

How quickly fans forget that Manny and Thome could still be powering this offense. Fans have lowered their expectations to meet that of ownership's unwillingness to spend and keep stars. So we are screaming "trade, trade, trade!" So we can get another round of prospects one of which will surely develop into a star only to be traded away again.

Again we will have a great farm system and no championship.

How happy ownership must be at the choirs of fans calling for a CC trade. Now they can say once more that, "we tried but alas, CC rejected us."

[East Side Joe]

CO Tribe Fan wrote:

5-5 is not the key number... it's the 2.21 era that says he's back on track. Your team has to score runs for you to get the W's.
The key to signing Sabathia is not the dollars.... it's the years. It has always been the years.... it will always be the years. The problem is that CC (or his agent) is going to want guaranteed 7 - 8 years. Dolan/Shapiro are going to offer 4 - 5.
Why?
Look at the DL? Carmona is on it... Westbrook is on it. That's just on the tribe. Check out how the other LT deals have paid off for the clubs. They don't..... And while CC is young, the LT deals on a pitcher have NEVER been successful for the team.
Dolan can afford to pay CC to play for 5 years... he can't pay CC to sit on the DL for the last 2.... especially when "fans" like OMG haven't opened their wallet to buy tickets or merchandise since 1995.
OMG... your calling Dolan cheap is the ultimate case of the pot calling the kettle black. You want Dolan to spend money, YOU spend some money.
This team was in contention all of last year and the only attendance burst came in the last 2 weeks of the season. This team finished 21st in attendance last year and the "fans" didn't show up to support them last year or this year.

The great Indian's teams of the 90s did not win the World Series because they did not have front line starters such as the Braves. The Braves kept that rotation in-place for many years and won,, if not competed in, many WS. You have to have two or three number one starters to win a series. This is the moment a franchise chasing a championship waits for -- the chance to have a premier starting rotation.

Your approach is typical of fans willing to settle for second class status.

[East Side Joe]

Stop Being Stupid wrote:

<quoted text>
Then you sign him. He will not get a long-term, big $$ deal YOU think he "deserves." Clubs are very hesitant to sign pitchers to long-term deals because of injuries. Jake Westbrook is a good example.
If you knew anything about sports (besides sounding stupid 24/7), you'd know this.

Another willing to accept second class Cleveland fan.

[Stop Being Stupid]

East Side Joe wrote:

Another willing to accept second class Cleveland fan.

Excuse you? I am not against signing CC, but this same ol' drivel from OldManMoron that he deserves what he's asking is crap. CC is not deserving of what he wants -- in both years and money. There's a reason why teams -- including the Indians -- are hesitant about signing most pitchers to long-term contracts like CC was wanting.

[Bergermeister]

6-4 in the last 10 games. Signs of life? I guess we will know more after the next series...er, World Series that shoulda been.

[JRid]

East Side Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
The great Indian's teams of the 90s did not win the World Series because they did not have front line starters such as the Braves. The Braves kept that rotation in-place for many years and won,, if not competed in, many WS.

They competed in five World Series (91, 92, 95, 96, 99), but only won one (1995 against the Indians), so "they competed in several World Series and won one."

[Mike V]

CC -- GO TO NEW YORK. LEBRON IS GOING IN 2010.

[EastSideJoe]

JRid wrote:

<quoted text>
They competed in five World Series (91, 92, 95, 96, 99), but only won one (1995 against the Indians), so "they competed in several World Series and won one."

Thanks for the correction. I'll still take the Braves record over the last 20 years over Cleveland's. And the principle remains. You need first class pitching to win it all.

[EastSideJoe]

Stop Being Stupid wrote:

<quoted text>
Excuse you? I am not against signing CC, but this same ol' drivel from OldManMoron that he deserves what he's asking is crap. CC is not deserving of what he wants -- in both years and money. There's a reason why teams -- including the Indians -- are hesitant about signing most pitchers to long-term contracts like CC was wanting.

Everyone understands OMG's frustration. Everyone appreciates the risks associated with signing a pitcher,anyone, to a long term deal. Of course we know the reasons teams don't want to sign players like CC. But you won't win a championship without a couple of CCs. That is his leverage. As for his weight, I don't think it is a liability. Hasn't hirt others. Atleast we know he it's all real. I think of his weight as an analog to an opera singer's. CC isn't a head case with a ego issue either. Anyway, we all know how this is going to end.

[CO Tribe Fan]

East Side Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
Your approach is typical of fans willing to settle for second class status.

Definitely not willing to accept second class status... that's a leap of logic on your part. But I'm not willing to hang Dolan in effigy because he won't sign a pitcher with 5 good years left to an 8 year deal.

[CO Tribe Fan]

OldManGrump wrote:

<quoted text>I do spend money, just not at the Indians games anymore. I will commit when the Dolans commit, and so far they have NOT committed, they just keep being cheap_A$$ed. I did go to a game last week because my friend had an extra ticket.

LOL.... you won't spend a dime of your own money for a team that you are a "fan" of.....

Pot....Kettle....OMG

[alan t]

Winter Haven Maven wrote:

<quoted text>
This is why, if I'm Dolan, I sit him down, without his agent, and say, "C.C., Bob Feller has been the face of this organization since he was 17 years old (sound familiar?) and has stuck with it through thick and thin. On blind faith, good ownership or bad, he's refused to pull his name off the team that took him in as a raw kid and made him into all he could be. Now C.C., Bob's a short-timer and, regardless of future ownership, you are the only one who is in a position to accept the mantle, indeed the only one that's been in that position in the last 50 years. I'll do the absolute best I can to address a fair and reasonable short-term compensation to you for as long as I'm in control of this team, but I want you to consider the extremely rare position you are in to secure your legacy, beyond your mortal years."

What is this, "Field of Dreams?" Much like Joe Jackson, Sabathia is a ghost. He's not an idiot, his agent is not an idiot. If he ever intended to re-up, it would already be done, and there would be nothing to talk about.

His legacy. Please.

[Bergermeister]

alan t wrote:

<quoted text> What is this, "Field of Dreams?" Much like Joe Jackson, Sabathia is a ghost. He's not an idiot, his agent is not an idiot. If he ever intended to re-up, it would already be done, and there would be nothing to talk about.
His legacy. Please.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Baseball has changed dramatically since the glory days of Feller et al. Today it is all about the coin. CC, again unfortunately, has to take the highest bidder and that won't be the Tribe.