Another Pinto collapse leads to Marli...

Another Pinto collapse leads to Marlins' loss

There are 111 comments on the South Florida Sun-Sentinel story from Aug 17, 2008, titled Another Pinto collapse leads to Marlins' loss. In it, South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports that:

Miami Gardens - After Fredi Gonzalez took the ball from Renyel Pinto in the midst of a disastrous seventh inning Sunday, he made sure the roughed-up reliever waited so he could walk from the mound to the dugout ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

Lou Vales

United States

#42 Aug 18, 2008
I'm only 60 so I can wait for Stanton and Dominguez in late 2010 or beginning of 2011 both of whom are going to be really good to mesh with Sanchez or Morrison at 1b, Coughlin at 2B, Hanley at 3B--YES, Hanley at 3B, an outfield of Stanton, Maybin and Raynor. Catcher to be acquired for a young pitcher, and the need for a SS. But we still have the Supplemental #1's moving up and we have some smoke throwers at lower classifications. Watch a guy named, Battisto, I've seen him 3 times and electric is electric at any level. Hopegfully still room for guys who KNOW HOW to play the game like Cantu and Ross.

Admit it, won't you be glad not to have to watch Josh trying to remove that imaginary speck of dirt from his eye every other pitch, watching Hermida spray balls foul off to the left, seeing Jake use that gel with far more concentration than at bats--It really will be quite pleasant.

Notice, I don't mention Uggla because I'm unaware of what level of Sports Psychiatry the Marlins have available.
Lou Vales

United States

#43 Aug 18, 2008
Bullshark, I'm not going easy on him!! Trust Me!!! I just realize the score should have been 4 or 5-0 going to the 7th. Volstad would have pitched more relaxed and probably only given up a run, could have had Rhodes available for the 8th and with a 4 or 5 out save available for Nelson.

The Blown save was Pinto's fault BUT you should NEVER put someone of his pedigee in that position if HUMANELY possible and it certainly was.

How about all of us sending off an e-mail to those two clowns tomorrow requesting that they answer some REAL questions. i'm sending one that will barely be FCC permissable.
Suffering Miami Fan

Melbourne, FL

#44 Aug 18, 2008
Lou, regarding Tommy Hutton: The guy works for the Marlins, not for FSN, even though on paper it says FSN on his paychecks. Similar to Steve Stone getting the ax on the Cubs WGN games, and Peter Tom Willis getting the ax on the FSU radio games. There is a reason that Tommy holds his tongue to the point that Rich Waltz even comments on him leaving the room. I WISH there was a radio or TV broadcaster that would rip these players when they screw up, but 790 is sycophantic, 560 is ignoring them, 640 is barely heard in Kendall, and the only guy that will be honest about them is the guy doing sports on 850 in Jeff De Forrest.

Don't blame Tommy for keeping his job, blame Loria and Fredi for making him bit his tounge so much that they need stitces!
Suffering Miami Fan

Melbourne, FL

#45 Aug 18, 2008
Lou Vales wrote:
Has everybody thought just how different this team will look next year--And it really won't be as a result of cheapness.
Sorry Lou, it will be because of cheapness.

Pudge and Manny could have been here if not for cheapness, Cabrera and Willis could have been here if not for cheapness, Beckett and Lowell could have been here if not for cheapness, and the guys we choose not to bring into arbitration will be gone not because of talent, but because of CHEAPNESS.

“Wasilla Moose Chick for Sale”

Since: Aug 07

Definitely Not Wasilla

#46 Aug 18, 2008
You are pathetic wrote:
<quoted text>
Are his press agent? The footnotes are a nice touch, too LOL. Jeez, get a life, you cut and paste artist.
A GUY THAT TALKS LIKE THAT IS DEFINITELY HIS PRESS AGENT!

Hey President Bush is a President and Uggla is an all star, YEAH, FOR SURE, right. Oh PAGING DR. FREUD AGAIN...

SECOND BASE is a position that for those of us who have played it (I know I am just a girl) requires big ones and requires leadership and toughness and a adaptability and going with the pitch and moving runners and doing whatever it takes to make the win happen. Second basemen of legend have been team captains many times and because it is a position that requires big onions and if you don't have them then ........PAGING DR. FREUD, TO COME AND SEE DAMAGED MENTAL second baseman that has been smelling like dead fish and like a RULE WHATEVER DRAFT that we got for a couple of nickels.

Yes second base requires lots of leadership and in present day baseball there are some that fit that mold and to go in reciting how Mr. Uggla made the all star and then he died requires psychoanalysis. Don't embarrass MR. UGGLA by comparing him to real second basemen like
Ian Kinsler, Tex
Chase Utley, Phi
Dustin Pedroia, Bos
Brian Roberts, Bal
Brandon Phillips, Cin
Ryan Theriot, ChC
Mark DeRosa, ChC
Placido Polanco, Det
Alexei Ramirez, CWS
Orlando Hudson, Ari
Howie Kendrick, LAA
Jeff Kent, LAD

Then if you want to go to the past we can think of second basemen leaders who captained or deserved to be captainns like Joe Morgan, Bobby Richardson, Davey Johnson, Rod Carew, Jackie Robinson, Ryne Sandberg, Nellie Fox, Rogers Hornsby, etc.

THOSE ARE REAL SECOND BASEMEN and to go on trumpeting about Mr. Uggla being an all star, it requires to page Dr. Sigmund Freud for an emergency service call because Mr. Uggla is what he is and shows that he is Dave Kingman in a Marlin uniform.

Even if you take a guy like Luis Castillo and Greg Counsell who did whatever it took to get it done, you have more merit. But Uggla is a lumberjack with a piece of wood and he plays like it. He is like a Hulk Hogan with a bat except that he just plays one way, that is, if the bat hits the ball then it is a golf shot but when that does not go well he is a mentally disturbed baseball player who is being showcased to be sold in the Loria firesale of every year. Commodities and his might be a rotten commodity.

Imagine a 2nd baseman that can not eve drop a drag or sacrifice bunt when he can not buy a hit. If I was going like he has been going I would be learning how to drag bunt.. oh but I forgot, he can not run that well either.

Hey look Craig Biggio was a second baseman at one time and he did whatever it took and that is an all star for you. That is my idea of a second baseman who should go to an all star game. Roberto Alomar was an all star. And Alfonso Soriano was Uggla like in his defense and he made errors and mental lapses and he bounced around and was not qualified to play second base. Of course, you can never compare the 2 bats, Soriano vs Uggla. But leave it to Uggla's press agent in this forum, oh, yeah, he'll have an statistic that says that on games that started when the moon was full and when the pitcher scratched his crotch twice, Uggla outhit Soriano by 5 points if the temperature was above 85 degrees at game time.

PLEASE ..... DR. FREUD COME QUICK!
Allan B

AOL

#47 Aug 18, 2008
Lou Vales wrote:
Bullshark, I'm not going easy on him!! Trust Me!!! I just realize the score should have been 4 or 5-0 going to the 7th. Volstad would have pitched more relaxed and probably only given up a run, could have had Rhodes available for the 8th and with a 4 or 5 out save available for Nelson.
The Blown save was Pinto's fault BUT you should NEVER put someone of his pedigee in that position if HUMANELY possible and it certainly was.
How about all of us sending off an e-mail to those two clowns tomorrow requesting that they answer some REAL questions. i'm sending one that will barely be FCC permissable.
Lou, how about the ballboy, Organ player, and grounds crew? I havent heard you bash them yet.
Allan B

AOL

#48 Aug 18, 2008
Fair Hooker wrote:
<quoted text>
A GUY THAT TALKS LIKE THAT IS DEFINITELY HIS PRESS AGENT!
Hey President Bush is a President and Uggla is an all star, YEAH, FOR SURE, right. Oh PAGING DR. FREUD AGAIN...
SECOND BASE is a position that for those of us who have played it (I know I am just a girl) requires big ones and requires leadership and toughness and a adaptability and going with the pitch and moving runners and doing whatever it takes to make the win happen. Second basemen of legend have been team captains many times and because it is a position that requires big onions and if you don't have them then ........PAGING DR. FREUD, TO COME AND SEE DAMAGED MENTAL second baseman that has been smelling like dead fish and like a RULE WHATEVER DRAFT that we got for a couple of nickels.
Yes second base requires lots of leadership and in present day baseball there are some that fit that mold and to go in reciting how Mr. Uggla made the all star and then he died requires psychoanalysis. Don't embarrass MR. UGGLA by comparing him to real second basemen like
Ian Kinsler, Tex
Chase Utley, Phi
Dustin Pedroia, Bos
Brian Roberts, Bal
Brandon Phillips, Cin
Ryan Theriot, ChC
Mark DeRosa, ChC
Placido Polanco, Det
Alexei Ramirez, CWS
Orlando Hudson, Ari
Howie Kendrick, LAA
Jeff Kent, LAD
Then if you want to go to the past we can think of second basemen leaders who captained or deserved to be captainns like Joe Morgan, Bobby Richardson, Davey Johnson, Rod Carew, Jackie Robinson, Ryne Sandberg, Nellie Fox, Rogers Hornsby, etc.
THOSE ARE REAL SECOND BASEMEN and to go on trumpeting about Mr. Uggla being an all star, it requires to page Dr. Sigmund Freud for an emergency service call because Mr. Uggla is what he is and shows that he is Dave Kingman in a Marlin uniform.
Even if you take a guy like Luis Castillo and Greg Counsell who did whatever it took to get it done, you have more merit. But Uggla is a lumberjack with a piece of wood and he plays like it. He is like a Hulk Hogan with a bat except that he just plays one way, that is, if the bat hits the ball then it is a golf shot but when that does not go well he is a mentally disturbed baseball player who is being showcased to be sold in the Loria firesale of every year. Commodities and his might be a rotten commodity.
Imagine a 2nd baseman that can not eve drop a drag or sacrifice bunt when he can not buy a hit. If I was going like he has been going I would be learning how to drag bunt.. oh but I forgot, he can not run that well either.
Hey look Craig Biggio was a second baseman at one time and he did whatever it took and that is an all star for you. That is my idea of a second baseman who should go to an all star game. Roberto Alomar was an all star. And Alfonso Soriano was Uggla like in his defense and he made errors and mental lapses and he bounced around and was not qualified to play second base. Of course, you can never compare the 2 bats, Soriano vs Uggla. But leave it to Uggla's press agent in this forum, oh, yeah, he'll have an statistic that says that on games that started when the moon was full and when the pitcher scratched his crotch twice, Uggla outhit Soriano by 5 points if the temperature was above 85 degrees at game time.
PLEASE ..... DR. FREUD COME QUICK!
Keep smokin that crack pipe.
Lou Vales

United States

#49 Aug 18, 2008
Dear Suffering, Jeff is at 850?? Could you give me some details??

As far as Tommy, when does integrity enter into it!!! You have watched, arguably, the worst pair of corner outfielders of the last 50 years break in when they should have gone back or broke back when they should have broken in, you have watched a first baseman and second baseman with the range of a washer and dryer, you have watched a Valiant, Gutsy and A Pro's Pro play out of position in CF, you have watched a 70 million dollar SS treat routine chances like Willie Mays running down Vic Wertz's shot, you have seen an MLB team that had the audacity to not employ a Major League catcher for over half a season , you have watched a team that actually handed the ball to the likes of Taylor Tankersley and Logan "What Do You All Think Of My Funky Walk" Kensing, you have watched a team reward CONTINUED bad at bats with no loss in playing time, you have watched Robert andino get rewarded for one of the big hit of the year by being sent to Albuquerque, You have watched Andrew Miller be given about 10 starts too many---At what point does a man say-"You know what, no job is worth this. I'm speaking up".

“Wasilla Moose Chick for Sale”

Since: Aug 07

Definitely Not Wasilla

#50 Aug 18, 2008
Lou Vales wrote:
Dear Fair, Have you ever noticed how they inevitably say "Can't blame the hitting coach for any of this. He is not taking the at bats", BUT then when someone has a good stretch or year it's "So and So should really be credited for the work he put in with Blank"--May I please ask, How can it be both ways??
I'm perfectly ready to NEVER blame a hitting or pitching coach for ANYTHING, BUT then I must ask--What are they being paid to do?/ Does anyone have an answer??
There is a way that this team goes about their hitting and it seems to overcome or overtake everyone. It seems to be an attitude or philosophy as to their approach at home plate and even players who were not that way after being here they all seem to want to get into this pulling the ball, guess hitting at all costs and on all counts whether is zero strikes or 2 strikes and no balls. They are either dumb or the hitting coaches in the Marlin franchise are not stressing the type of things that I thought you need to do and be to stay on top of the MLB pitchers who are watching film and seeing what your weakness is.

Look at a great talent like Hanley who pitchers know is susceptible to the outside corner because he has been pulling and so the mental approach is to wait for the pitch that you can yank over the wall. So Hanley is constantly being tested by those who have enough control and he is pitched on that outside corner and he is not ready for it a lot of the times. I say he does it all on raw talent but there is not really much hitting going on. Of course, when they make a mistake, his hands are quick and he shows he is a MLB hitter.

This is totally opposite of what Charlie Loud used to teach and the approach at the plate of staying loose and taking the ball where is pitched. If the coach does not get to them or is not teaching it right, why can't they not watch film of George Brett, Carew or even Miguel Cabrera?
Out of town fan

Oneonta, NY

#51 Aug 18, 2008
Fredi, This is not minor league Pinto is terrible and should not be babied by you. If you want to baby all the players who screw up time after time, you should manage little league teams. This is not a teaching league, you are suppose to know how to pitch and play after three years in the pros. They all have bad days but not every time they go out there!!!
Lou Vales

United States

#52 Aug 18, 2008
Dear Allan B, How about I bash you?/ You are a sick little sycophant who probably spent his youth seeking out autographs and trying to be a batboy so after games you could sniff the seats where your heroes sat?? You probably would bid at an auction for Scott Pose's opening day jockstrap so you could wrap it around your nose with tape and be in Nirvanh.

See, no need to bash organ players. Come to think of it, if given the chance you would probably play with every Florida Marlins'organ because you are just that kind of guy.

Good Night Allan, so quit sexually harassing the Dave Magadan Bobblehead Doll, and get agood night's sleep.
Allan B

AOL

#53 Aug 18, 2008
Lou Vales wrote:
Dear Allan B, How about I bash you?/.
Lou, I'd feel left out if you didnt bash me. Sourpuss.
Suffering Miami Fan

Melbourne, FL

#54 Aug 18, 2008
Lou Vales wrote:
Dear Suffering, Jeff is at 850?? Could you give me some details??
www.850wftl.com/Jeff-De-Forrest/1268117

He is apparently also the early morning guy on 790, from 5 to 7 am, but I don't wake up until the sun is warm...

Tommy could speak out, it would be a bridge-burning meltdown of epic proportions, but my kids would haveto have their ears covered if he REALLY opened up on how he feels about the way thisownership runs things into the ground...
Allan B

AOL

#55 Aug 18, 2008
Suffering Miami Fan wrote:
<quoted text>
www.850wftl.com/Jeff-De-Forrest/1268117
He is apparently also the early morning guy on 790, from 5 to 7 am, but I don't wake up until the sun is warm...
Tommy could speak out, it would be a bridge-burning meltdown of epic proportions, but my kids would haveto have their ears covered if he REALLY opened up on how he feels about the way thisownership runs things into the ground...
The ownership has produced a competitive team with the lowest revenue in baseball. Has brought a WS win and persevered for a new stadium. And signed Hanley long term. I've never seen any ownership do this good without any fan support.
America

United States

#56 Aug 18, 2008
Pinto should be assigned to the "Baseball Painting League". Just that guy's name being annouced as the relief pitcher has scared me to death since May. I liked Tommy Hutton finally getting pissed off on TV about how these guys approach hitting fundamentals. I hope he brings it out more and hope the Marlins don't fire him for his opinions.
Lou Vales

United States

#57 Aug 18, 2008
I will no longer call you "Dear" as my true feelings for you have surfaced.
As far as your long standing love affair with Marlins ownership--For the very large part I agree. VERY MUCH AGREE!!! People don't turn out, why should we spend money, BUT LORIA also likes notoriety and in this case --as it is now coming out--he could have had Manny for a Jockstrap--Well, actually Hermida, but Jeremy is the equivalent of a jockstrap and Ryan Tucker, BUT the youthful chasing jeweler decided to get greedy and wanted more money than just Manny's salary.

Greed KILLS--Ask S.Florida homeowners--it also results in having a piece of crap like Jeremy Hermida in your line-up during a pennant race.

BAD MOVE,MR LORIA--You could have had possibly the franchise's 3rd!!!! World Series and now NOTHING!!
Lou Vales

United States

#58 Aug 18, 2008
ACTUALLY, Jeremy Hermida is not equal to a jockstrap. He is the worst right fielder in baseball--name one worse!!---he is incapable of pulling the ball with authority, is a horrific baserunner, makes bad decisioons and for all I know is guilty of All Star Flatulence!! Jeremy Hermida is pitiful.

See you at Turner Field next week. Anybody want to give odds on me being bounced. He wil probably have his entire family waiting for me, but they know he stinks as well.
Allan B

AOL

#59 Aug 18, 2008
Lou Vales wrote:
I will no longer call you "Dear" as my true feelings for you have surfaced.
As far as your long standing love affair with Marlins ownership--For the very large part I agree. VERY MUCH AGREE!!! People don't turn out, why should we spend money, BUT LORIA also likes notoriety and in this case --as it is now coming out--he could have had Manny for a Jockstrap--Well, actually Hermida, but Jeremy is the equivalent of a jockstrap and Ryan Tucker, BUT the youthful chasing jeweler decided to get greedy and wanted more money than just Manny's salary.
Greed KILLS--Ask S.Florida homeowners--it also results in having a piece of crap like Jeremy Hermida in your line-up during a pennant race.
BAD MOVE,MR LORIA--You could have had possibly the franchise's 3rd!!!! World Series and now NOTHING!!
And I agree on Hermida, who doesnt do anything right. But even Manny Ramirez wouldnt help when you're losing 8-2.
Lou Vales

United States

#60 Aug 18, 2008
With Manny you would have been leading 4-0 going to the 7th, with Manny you don't lose by those crazy scores to the Cards, you don't get shut out 3-0 by Perez, you don't lose to the Rockies 3-2 and on and on and on.

Loria could have rubbed it in the faces of Steinbrenner, and about 5 other Mega -market owners, BUT he went and got CHEAP on us when it was perfectly fine to be frugal and conservative.

Conservative, Frugal, cost Conscious=Good!!!

Cheap=Early Bird At Toojay's(BAD!!!!)
Allan B

AOL

#61 Aug 18, 2008
Lou Vales wrote:
With Manny you would have been leading 4-0 going to the 7th, with Manny you don't lose by those crazy scores to the Cards, you don't get shut out 3-0 by Perez, you don't lose to the Rockies 3-2 and on and on and on.
Loria could have rubbed it in the faces of Steinbrenner, and about 5 other Mega -market owners, BUT he went and got CHEAP on us when it was perfectly fine to be frugal and conservative.
Conservative, Frugal, cost Conscious=Good!!!
Cheap=Early Bird At Toojay's(BAD!!!!)
Sorry Lou. Nobody thats cheap goes out and buys a baseball team. The low revenue translates to low payroll.

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