Marlins' loss thrills crowd

With the anticipated deluge of Cubs fans, the pre-game joke making the rounds was that the Marlins Get your Marlins Tickets now! ' road trip was starting Friday at Dolphin Stadium , not Tuesday in San ...

[FSU Fan]

what a waste! jake missing the grounder in the 2nd by zambrano...gregg serving meatballs for dinner. so frustrating. these guys seriously need to learn to the basics of baseball. they have gotten by the homer, and now they are DYING by it. without cantu's 1 hit, the game is way over. is gregg the highest paid guy on the team this year? if so, thats crap!! he is crap. predictable pitch selection, and no deception. his "wind up" is a joke. he is what we call a THROWER, not a PITCHER. his slider is crap and fastball is nothing. might as well let lindstrom close or joe nelson. gregg continues to struggle getting the first hitter out...give a dong, fine, but not after walking a guy and having 2 on base!! you made a lot more than 1 mistake tonight gregg, more like 6 or 7. CRAP!!!!

[Fair Hooker]

Mercifully I did not watch the game after the first inning when first base Mike Jacobs did another one of his matador ole fielding attempt as Cubs pitcher Zambrano hit one by him that any infielder who is in a pennant race has to block, knock down, take it in the chest, the pretty face or even in the onions. Jacobs has been hitting better in recent games but in order to justify having a guy like that in the defense he has to get 3 rbi's per game because he is a costly liability. And some of the other boys have also been just taking a leisurely walk in some games. Last night in the last Cardinals game he cost them the winning run early in the game with a bad throw in a pick off.

This team has to score a lot of runs because every night they cost themselves a few with bad defense and mental gaffes.

Let's face it, they are a gassed bunch who have just realized they are in a pennant race and got nervy and uptight. They needed a couple of new players in the team, position players and professional hitters so that they can send to the minors 2 or 3 of the guys they have who clearly do not belong in the midst of a pennant chase.

I think one of the real disappointing things is to see a team that is clearly not as scrappy as some of the others that are up there. If you take the homers out that they were banging a while back, well, this team is not known for much. Take those homers away and this team has a maññññnana feel and attitude which comes from above. I want to see Fredo go after a palyer one day in the middle of the game just to put some fear into their system. Kind of like Billy Martin would do sometimes or like Charlie Manuel went after his Philly hot head pitcher the other night. Like when Uggla jogged to first base on that double that never was and got thrown out at second. Look at those two plays one after the other. The bad throw by Jacobs and the Uggla running gaffe. How many homers you have to hit to win games with many bone head plays like that.

[FSU Fan]

so true. now the homers aren't coming b/c pitchers finally figured out these guys try to pull everything and ground out or pop out. thanks for reminding me of the jabobs throw. i guess you get what you pay for!! we bought a Haier and expected the best! haha

[Fair Hooker]

IF THEY GET BEHIND by 5 GAMES THEY WILL ALL GO INTO HIDING AND WILL NOT BE SEEN AGAIN. We know they make a lot of dumb mental plays and they are not kids anymore, these guys are 28 and 27 and 29. But THEY ARE PLAYING AS IF THEY ARE TERRIFIED.

The other teams have many more ball players with real cojones who seem to fight a bit more and look like they want it, although sometimes the Mets look like a bunh of girls playing softball and if it was not for David Wright they would be in big trouble. WHERE IS THE MARLINS DAVID WRIGHT or CHASE UTLEY. Like why wasn't Hanley Ramirez stealing tonight when he was on base 4 or 5 times. They were running against a real reat thrower in Molina of the Cards and agains this Cubs guy who is not even close to Molina, they do not run.

Of course, I know they got only 4 hits tonight in the Cubs game but they got base on balls and Hanley was on all night.

And our Marlin closer does the best he can but the fact is that he is just a very average closer with a ball he throws down the middle that a quality hitter can definitely hit very easily. He has no put away pitch. On that Ward Homer he throws a low golfing type of straight and low down the middle, the ball that left handers without exception will love to get to golf out.

You can not throw a gopher ball in that situation when you have not enough arm power to throw it past a guy. In fact, let's watch how Gregg does in future games if he has to face a good left handed hitter and he will groove it in there hoping he can get an out. Ward was sent to pinch hit for a home run and Gregg who does what he can (remember that he was setup man to Jorge Julio until Julio showed us that the marlin front office does make big mistakes too).

Ward will hit a low middle to inside pithc for a homer 5 out of 10 times and will struggle with all other pitches or has to become a defensive singles hitter when pitched anything but the giant calabaza ball that he was served. I know that at that time it was not the play to do but if my closer gets hit like that in the 9th and in comes in a power left hander, well, there is nothing wrong with bringing our prized trade deadline acquisition of 38 year old Arthur Rhodes to deal with the powerful lefty. BUT WILL FREDI DO THAT and not go by the book he has to go to, you know the Girardi thinking book that says just go with the closer no matter what even when his 9th inning tonight was like Carnival in Rio for the Billy Goaters from Chicago.

[FSU Fan]

so awesome!! you nailed...laughing over here...mike jacobs loves the low to middle inside pitch so he can pull it. throw him low away and see where he hits it...same with ward. changeups outside, even that more of a slurve slider....no...you are right, he is a converted closer, but yes...bring in arthur rhodes...lets see, piniella 1 fredi the dodobird 0. lefty vs. lefty specialist or righy with average stuff...hmmm...

[Erick]

Amazing how Fredi Gonzalez always gets the blame. Maybe you guys should look at some stats, instead of talking out of your ass.

Gregg has been dominant for about a month now, and he has done well against lefties all year. As a matter of fact, he's been tough to hit, all year. His problem have been the walks, and it was part of the problem that came back tonight.

Left handed hitters have hit .178 off of Gregg this year, with a .567 .OPS.

Fredi made the right move. The players didn't execute.

[Marlinman]

My heart is broken. That's all I can say. I'm very disappointed but I'm mad at Fredi for not going out to the mound and talk to Gregg as he started out shaky and to keep the ball on the corners with the left hander out there but Gregg feels bad about that pitch too. We had a 2 run lead! We had Rhodes for these situations didn't we? He should have been up with a right hander getting ready. Where is the thinking?

[Fair Hooker]

There are one or two Loria-Samson apologists that are trumpeting the idea that Uggla is the leader who has replaced Miguel Cabrera because he is an ALL STAR. All I can say that in a division which is ripe for picking every year, the idea of getting a dozen players they got for Cabrera looks not such a good deal right now and of course, wait until they mature, bla bla bla... how much do we wait when everytime they have a good player he is gone for cash for Samson's bonus. I say if Miguel Cabrera is here and they pick up Pudge who was available, this team would be 2 or 3 games or more games ahead of the Mets/Phils. Or if they pick up a major league hitter, or even play West Helms more who is has proven he is a professional hitter the chances improve.

Miguel Cabrera, the first guy that would have made the Hall of Fame as a Marlin is not going to be replaced so easy by a guys who was in the minor leagues for a lot of years and then all of a sudden he is an all star. Let's study some numbers for those of you who are accountants. You do not need statistics if you know baseball you see it in the games that there are a number of guys that would be sent to the Minors with Melky but here they are hitting in the middle of the batting order.

MIGUEL CABRERA CAREER NUMBERS:
CAREER AVERAGE .310
CAREER ON BASE %.383
CAREER SLUGGING .538
CAREER OPS .922
GAMES played: 838
Career homers: 162
RBI: 614

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Miguel Cabrera Post-All Star Game 2008
Average .....333
On Base %....400
Slugging........647
OPS ..........1.047

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Dan Uggla Post-All Star
Average..........193
On Base %.......280
Sluggin..........361
OPS..........641

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Jeremy Hermida has 33 strike outs in 89 at bats since the All Star game. And has 119 strike outs in 425 at bats for the season or 1 for each 3.57 at bat. For a #2 hitter, he is doing what Uggla did in that slot before Hermida was put in there. Not enough contact. He has regressed enormously.

Jacobs has struck out 91 times in 358 at bats. Or 1 every 3.93

Uggla has struck out 125 times in 387 at bats.

Miguel Cabrera has struck out 89 times in 458 at bats and has 92 RBIs. Only one Marlin has 70 RBI and that is Uggla who strikes out 1 per every 3.096 at bat. Cabrera strikes 1 per every 5.15 at bat.

I repeat, Miguel Cabrera strikes out this year at 1 for every 5.15 at bat which is much much much better than the other Marlin players mentioned here.

The Marlins have struck out 1050 times while the opponents have struck out only 846. In comparison the Phillies have struck out only 832 at bats and 155 of those have been consumed by one guy, Ryan Howard who has 33 homers. If you took Howard out of the equation then the Phils are a formidable scrappy contact hitting team.

1050 times divided by the 123 games played, the Marlins have averaged approximately 9 strike outs per game which is a big number, particularly when they are no longer hitting the long ball or hitting at all.

Chase Utley has struck out 76 K's and Pat Burrell the slugger has 99 in 119 games that both have played.If you add the fact they have the best pinch hitter in Dobbs who is almost automatic, I just do not see how the Marlins can do it. I say, bring McKeown, Mordecai, Ramon Castro and Steve Bartman back.

[john]

Fair Hooker wrote:

There are one or two Loria-Samson apologists that are trumpeting the idea that Uggla is the leader who has replaced Miguel Cabrera because he is an ALL STAR. All I can say that in a division which is ripe for picking every year, the idea of getting a dozen players they got for Cabrera looks not such a good deal right now and of course, wait until they mature, bla bla bla... how much do we wait when everytime they have a good player he is gone for cash for Samson's bonus. I say if Miguel Cabrera is here and they pick up Pudge who was available, this team would be 2 or 3 games or more games ahead of the Mets/Phils. Or if they pick up a major league hitter, or even play West Helms more who is has proven he is a professional hitter the chances improve.
Miguel Cabrera, the first guy that would have made the Hall of Fame as a Marlin is not going to be replaced so easy by a guys who was in the minor leagues for a lot of years and then all of a sudden he is an all star. Let's study some numbers for those of you who are accountants. You do not need statistics if you know baseball you see it in the games that there are a number of guys that would be sent to the Minors with Melky but here they are hitting in the middle of the batting order.
MIGUEL CABRERA CAREER NUMBERS:
CAREER AVERAGE .310
CAREER ON BASE %.383
CAREER SLUGGING .538
CAREER OPS .922
GAMES played: 838
Career homers: 162
RBI: 614
----------
Miguel Cabrera Post-All Star Game 2008
Average .....333
On Base %....400
Slugging........647
OPS ..........1.047
----------
Dan Uggla Post-All Star
Average..........193
On Base %.......280
Sluggin..........361
OPS..........641
----------
Jeremy Hermida has 33 strike outs in 89 at bats since the All Star game. And has 119 strike outs in 425 at bats for the season or 1 for each 3.57 at bat. For a #2 hitter, he is doing what Uggla did in that slot before Hermida was put in there. Not enough contact. He has regressed enormously.
Jacobs has struck out 91 times in 358 at bats. Or 1 every 3.93
Uggla has struck out 125 times in 387 at bats.
Miguel Cabrera has struck out 89 times in 458 at bats and has 92 RBIs. Only one Marlin has 70 RBI and that is Uggla who strikes out 1 per every 3.096 at bat. Cabrera strikes 1 per every 5.15 at bat.
I repeat, Miguel Cabrera strikes out this year at 1 for every 5.15 at bat which is much much much better than the other Marlin players mentioned here.
The Marlins have struck out 1050 times while the opponents have struck out only 846. In comparison the Phillies have struck out only 832 at bats and 155 of those have been consumed by one guy, Ryan Howard who has 33 homers. If you took Howard out of the equation then the Phils are a formidable scrappy contact hitting team.
1050 times divided by the 123 games played, the Marlins have averaged approximately 9 strike outs per game which is a big number, particularly when they are no longer hitting the long ball or hitting at all.
Chase Utley has struck out 76 K's and Pat Burrell the slugger has 99 in 119 games that both have played.If you add the fact they have the best pinch hitter in Dobbs who is almost automatic, I just do not see how the Marlins can do it. I say, bring McKeown, Mordecai, Ramon Castro and Steve Bartman back.

great post. The schedule should ease up for them in the next week and it will be tough for the mets and phils. Hopefully we can get over this slump and play like we were before the break.

[Scott the Pool Cleaner]

This downhill spiral has to end. This team has to break out with 10+ hits and 8 runs tonight and tomorrow or the fat lady begins warming up.

[Scott the Pool Cleaner]

Great posts, Hooker.

[MR Met]

Where would the cheapskate Marlins be if they got Manny Ramirez? oh well. you get what you pay for....floundering fish!

[Instagator]

Go Cubs Go.....finally a win in South Florida

[Joe]

When is Freddi gonna realize this team does not have a closer. Freddi should have this staff close by committe much like th middle relief guys. If it was the 6th,7th,or 8th inning we would have seen Pinto come in to face Darryl Ward. I don't care about Greg's stats as of late. The closer stat is very misleading. Also, how many times in the last couple of games have we left guys at 3B with less than 2 outs? We have been terrible in this department as of late. One last thing, Hermieda comes to the plate in the 3rd after watching Zambrano walk the 1st two batters. What does he do? He goes after the FIRST pitch with a lame bunt attempt and pops it up to the catcher. This is a typical High Scool mistake. This mistake was overlooked because Cantu got Hermieda and Freddi of the hook with his 3 run HR. I know I said one last thing but here's another last thing... We didn't score a run since the 3rd inning last night. Good teams add on to their lead. There's about 49? games left. Let's hope they can turn it around.

[GBTB1430]

Give Gregg a break. Blown saves happen. But, nice bunt Hermida. Cantu saved your cookies. Do you remember the last quality at bat you had? And Fredi still bats him 2nd. No clue Fredi. LoDuca will help, but why didn't you get rid of Pinto. Great management from top to bottom.

[Question]

Hate me for saying this, but you are witnessing the team make its slide out of the race. Tampa Bay loses Crawford and Longoria and continues to find ways to win. We just find ways to lose. It's a telling sign.

[Eddie]

Hermidia hit 340 the 2nd half of last year when the Marlins were out of contention. I'm sure Hermidia will hit well this year when the Marlins are 8 games out of 1st place. He can't bunt,he is in the top ten in the league in strikeouts . WHAT KIND OF NONSENSE IS HERMIDIA IN THE 2 HOLE AND WATCH RAMIREZ SCORE MANY RUNS IF YOU PUT LODUCA BATTING 2ND. FREDI PUT HERMIDIA IN THE 7TH SPOT OR SEND HIM DOWN.

[Eddie]

There are so many mistakes which Jacobs makes that do not show up in the box score. There is a tremendous 3rd baseman in AAA IN McPherson. To help salvage the season the Marlins should trade Jacobs put CANTU AT 1ST MCPHERSON AT 3RD. Cantu is a fabulous 1st baseman. In the late innings bring in Helms TO PLAY 3RD.

[ANS]

Give me a break, Gregg has NOT been dominant for a month. There's drama every time he pitches. Even if he gets a save, he's putting people on base and working from behind to get his ass out of trouble. A dominant closer ends the game fast and shortens the next one by forcing the opposition to shoot their bullets in the seventh and eighth because they know they don't have a chance in the ninth. Dominant, my ass!

Erick wrote:

Amazing how Fredi Gonzalez always gets the blame. Maybe you guys should look at some stats, instead of talking out of your ****.
Gregg has been dominant for about a month now, and he has done well against lefties all year. As a matter of fact, he's been tough to hit, all year. His problem have been the walks, and it was part of the problem that came back tonight.
Left handed hitters have hit .178 off of Gregg this year, with a .567 .OPS.
Fredi made the right move. The players didn't execute.

[Craps]

The Marlins are starting to smell like bad fish.