Ohio.com - Better relax, Tribe fans, Borowski is your closer

Have the relaxation tape ready. Start practicing yoga. Ponder some deep thoughts by Jack Handey. Full Story
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MikeDelahoz

Fort Myers, FL

#1 Oct 10, 2007
So, let's say its game 7, bottom of the ninth and the tribe has a ONE run lead. Betancourt has just blown the Red Sox batters away in 10 pitches in the 8th. This is the season, and the Tribe's first World Series victory in 59 years is at hand. Do you hand JoBo the ball? I sure wouldn't want to be Eric Wedge!
Gary

Wooster, OH

#2 Oct 10, 2007
The "book" better be re-written if Clevalnd hopes to win the ALSC or World Series. 45 saves means nothing when your ERA is over 5. The closer role is overused. What pitcher given almost 60 chances to hold a 1-3 run lead for one inning couldn't do it? I say if yoru eighth inning pitcher is roling, you don't mess with him until he falters. Then bring Joe in. If he can pitch out of a mess, than he is good.
Toledo Tim

Toledo, OH

#3 Oct 10, 2007
As long as JoBo is pitching in a save situation, he does OK, it's those non-save stiuations that really inflated his ERA. This year is next year
Rob

Loudonville, OH

#4 Oct 10, 2007
Why can't people just deal with the fact that Borowski is a good closer? When you pitch around 60-70 innings, a few bad innings will inflate your ERA.
Take away that Yankees game in April where he gave up 6 ER, his ERA is 4.27, nearly a full run lower.
KEVIN AKRON

Canton, OH

#5 Oct 10, 2007
MikeDelahoz wrote:
So, let's say its game 7, bottom of the ninth and the tribe has a ONE run lead. Betancourt has just blown the Red Sox batters away in 10 pitches in the 8th. This is the season, and the Tribe's first World Series victory in 59 years is at hand. Do you hand JoBo the ball? I sure wouldn't want to be Eric Wedge!
you have to dance with the girl you brought to the dance. wedge knows how joe bro handles pitching as a closer. does he know how bentincourt can handle it? closing takes a special make up that joe bro has.
Bubba

Akron, OH

#6 Oct 10, 2007
Gary wrote:
The "book" better be re-written if Clevalnd hopes to win the ALSC or World Series. 45 saves means nothing when your ERA is over 5. The closer role is overused. What pitcher given almost 60 chances to hold a 1-3 run lead for one inning couldn't do it? I say if yoru eighth inning pitcher is roling, you don't mess with him until he falters. Then bring Joe in. If he can pitch out of a mess, than he is good.
Fausto Carmona is a great pitcher yet he couldn't make it as a closer last year. I'd love to see the Indians have a Goose Gossage-type closer, but they don't. If they don't have Borowski then they don't make the playoffs and we're not even having this discussion.
paul

Conyers, GA

#7 Oct 10, 2007
Eric Wedge believes in his players! It WILL pay off for the Tribe in this series as well. The Tribe IS the best TEAM in baseball this year. we will be rewarded with a World Series trophy this year. Keep the faith!!
bikerman

Pensacola, FL

#8 Oct 10, 2007
Nothing is going to change Wedge's mind, so let's live with it. Thinking back to game 1 and 4, my only thoughts were to score enough runs to make it a non save opportunity. JoBo is not going to get a 1 run save in Boston. Bobby Cox is one of the most patient managers ever and he could not live with Wickman for a full year.
ramon

Albion, PA

#9 Oct 10, 2007
bikerman wrote:
Nothing is going to change Wedge's mind, so let's live with it. Thinking back to game 1 and 4, my only thoughts were to score enough runs to make it a non save opportunity. JoBo is not going to get a 1 run save in Boston. Bobby Cox is one of the most patient managers ever and he could not live with Wickman for a full year.
Bobby Cox also loves JoBo and believes nobody in the game has bigger stones.
Trish

Los Angeles, CA

#10 Oct 10, 2007
As I understand it a closer gets credit for a save if they hold a three run lead. The number of saves seems like a confusing statistic as you get credit for holding a three run lead the same as holding a one run lead==which could be more of a challenge--often one run is scored in the 9th but not as often three. It seems a closer could mount a large number of saves by giving up one or two runs provided they have a two or three run lead. JoBo does give up some runs. Are there stats on how many of these saves have been one, two, three runs and how many runs allowed versus other closers?
KEVIN AKRON

Canton, OH

#11 Oct 10, 2007
Trish wrote:
As I understand it a closer gets credit for a save if they hold a three run lead. The number of saves seems like a confusing statistic as you get credit for holding a three run lead the same as holding a one run lead==which could be more of a challenge--often one run is scored in the 9th but not as often three. It seems a closer could mount a large number of saves by giving up one or two runs provided they have a two or three run lead. JoBo does give up some runs. Are there stats on how many of these saves have been one, two, three runs and how many runs allowed versus other closers?
THE GAME IS DIFFRENT WHEN THERE IS ONLY A ONE RUN LEAD COMPARED TO THREE. THE TEAM WILL PLAY DEFENSE DIFFRENT AND PITCH DIFFRENT WITH 3 RUNS INSTEAD OF ONE. THEY MAY KEEP THE INFIELD BACK AND PLAY NO DOUBLE DEFENSE WITH A ONE RUN LEAD. IF GUYS ARE ON WITH A 3 RUN LEAD THE TEAM WILL CONSEED A RUN FOR AN OUT. IM SURE THEY DO KEEP THOSE STATS BUT THEY WOULD BE HARD TO FIND.
Old Man Grump

Cleveland, OH

#12 Oct 10, 2007
Borowski lead the AL in saves at 45 and blown saves at 8. We are in for a rough ride when he comes into pitch the 9th inning. He finished 3rd in Rolaids Reliever of the Year. Not too bad for what the Indians payed him.

Hold on to your lucky charms when he comes into pitch.

GO TRIBE !!!
whynot

Fort Richardson, AK

#13 Oct 10, 2007
Glad to see someone point out that JoBo leads with number of saves AND with the number of blown saves. Further diminishing the importance of his number of saves, IMO, is that he had more save opportunities here than most other clubs.

Sorry I don't belong to the JoBo fan club, but I sense he's more lucky than effective. Heck, trade him in the off season for another good bat, then promote Betancourt. There's good pitching on hand waiting to be used.
Tom

AOL

#14 Oct 10, 2007
This is the same stick-to-your-guns thinking that led Mike Hargrove to blow the 1997 World Series. Mark Jackson had just blown away the Marlins in the eighth and he brings in Jose Mesa to start the ninth as he had done all season. Bad move. Marlins rally. Cleveland cries again. I say, if the guy who finished the eighth (Betancourt)did it with ease and good stuff, let him start the ninth. If he gets an out, give him another batter, etc. This way, you actually have two chances to finish the job. If he puts a guy on in any manner, then go to Borowski. Heck, Borowski usually puts at least one or two guys on himself, so he seems more comfortable pitching with men on base anyway. But these managers are so stuck in their ways, they are not progressive thinkers or they would be professors or engineers.
google

New Albany, OH

#15 Oct 10, 2007
Toledo Tim wrote:
As long as JoBo is pitching in a save situation, he does OK, it's those non-save stiuations that really inflated his ERA. This year is next year
WHAT? A perfect example was the last game. A three-run lead, he promptly allows a run. The save statistic is one of the ultimate baseball jokes, you can be three runs ahead and still get credit for a save. The save stat is ridiculous, and Borowski is ridiculous. He is a relatively poor closer that just happens to reap the benefits of very stupid statistics.
Korova

Youngstown, OH

#16 Oct 10, 2007
True... Jobo is scary. However, he is the only pitcher in that bullpen I am comfortable with in the ninth. Let's face it, it takes guts to close games. Look at what happened to Carmona last year. Anyone remember 2004 when relatively effective relief pitchers (David Riske, Betancourt, and Jose Jimenez) were rendered helpless when asked to close games. Blown saves happen, but it is unwise to throw in inexperienced closers during the playoffs. Jobo is the guy for the job.
Winter Haven Maven

Davenport, FL

#17 Oct 10, 2007
JoBo may lead the league in blown saves, but Wedge is by no means going with his heart when he sends him out for the 9th. The Two Raffies have combined to blow 4 saves out of 8 opportunities when JoBo wasn't available this season, sub 2.00 ERAs notwithstanding. The percentages say (and I'm assuming we can all do the math in our HEADS, not by HEART) it has to be Borowski.

Also, let's say the Betancourt-mowed-them-down-in- the-8th scenario happens in game 6 (on Saturday) and he blows the save, necessitating ga me 7 on Sunday. Physically or mentally, he won't be available for a tight situation in the 6th, 7th or 8th, where he has been nearly infallible all year.
Toledo Tim

Toledo, OH

#18 Oct 10, 2007
google wrote:
<quoted text> WHAT? A perfect example was the last game. A three-run lead, he promptly allows a run. The save statistic is one of the ultimate baseball jokes, you can be three runs ahead and still get credit for a save. The save stat is ridiculous, and Borowski is ridiculous. He is a relatively poor closer that just happens to reap the benefits of very stupid statistics.
On Indians.com , they have stats. In 14 non-save appearances, covering 13 total innings, he allowed 14 earned runs. Remove those and his ERA is just under 4.00. So he allows a run every so often, most of the time it does not change the outcome of the game (like the last game)
google

New Albany, OH

#19 Oct 10, 2007
Toledo Tim wrote:
<quoted text>
On Indians.com , they have stats. In 14 non-save appearances, covering 13 total innings, he allowed 14 earned runs. Remove those and his ERA is just under 4.00. So he allows a run every so often, most of the time it does not change the outcome of the game (like the last game)
And how many guys did he allow in that were already on base? He's the closest thing to Mitch Williams the Indians have. The save stat is retarded. The ERA stat is retarded. The hold stat is retarded. In fact, most baseball stats are a combination of meaningless and retarded.
a fn k

Big Sky, MT

#20 Oct 10, 2007
borowski, wickman, what's the difference.
if it's game 7, ninth inning i'll take my chances with jobo. he might not win the game but he is no jackass like jose mesa.

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