Broken promise from O's starters

One after another, like line drives up the middle, reminders keep coming of what the Orioles' starting rotation could have been and what it has turned out to be.

[john]

Pitching Prospects are like instant lottery scratch off tickets a few winners and lots and lots of losers

[Mark H]

The fact is that Loewen has never been a pitcher. Aside from Wieters, Markakis and possibly Roberts, the prospects over the past 15 years
have been a joke.

[Bob]

David we don't have broken promises from our pitching staff what we have is a clear case of over rating our talent. Our front office and scouts have been blowing smoke up the fans a--s for way to long. We have drafted pitchers number 1 many times and they haven't produced one bit , some because of injuries and some because of lack of talent. Hayden penn is the prime example, he was suppose to be the next jim palmer.He won't ever produce in the major leagues and will just be another example of What you call Broken Promises. We have a slew of guys in single and double a that they are doing the same thing with. Andy said it perfect yesterday when he said that you have to get as many pitchers as you can and hope to get 2 or 3 to produce.Low pinella said it perfectly yesterday when he was quoted as saying sometimes you just have to make a decsion on something and be done with it. That certainly should pertain to Daniel C because after 4 years and 3 pitching coaches he is actually reverting back to the way he pitched in his first year. This team can make all the trades they want, pick up all the free agents that they want but until they get 4 new starters on this pitching staff and pitch to a era under 5 they will be looking up from the bottom for a very long time.

[Qstorm376]

All we ever heard every spring was how the O's were drafting pitchers."You can never have enough pitching"!

Now you can see how bad the management was if this is the outcome!

[Ghost Oriole]

Good thing that the O's took Billy Rowell #9 instead of Tim Lincecum #10 in 2006 (or Max Scherzer #11). One guy is in Single A and the other guy is in the running for the NL Cy Young.

Wow. Talk about missing by a mile! Another terrible draft pick.

The O's desperately need #1 and #2 SP's, and the current front office doesn't believe in signing top pitching FA's.

If they plan to promote a #1 SP from within, we're still many, many years away from seeing that guy.

Competitive in 2010 with no starting pitching? Yeah, right. Dream on.

[Bob]

Ghost Oriole wrote:

Good thing that the O's took Billy Rowell #9 instead of Tim Lincecum #10 in 2006 (or Max Scherzer #11). One guy is in Single A and the other guy is in the running for the NL Cy Young.
Wow. Talk about missing by a mile! Another terrible draft pick.
The O's desperately need #1 and #2 SP's, and the current front office doesn't believe in signing top pitching FA's.
If they plan to promote a #1 SP from within, we're still many, many years away from seeing that guy.
Competitive in 2010 with no starting pitching? Yeah, right. Dream on.

You know you are right on again, how come all the rest of thses fans can't tell the difference between speaking the truth about something and being negative. I know it's a very fine line between the two but when you keep giving them sound facts to back up what you are saying then that leads me to believe that they are just in a serious case of denial.

[Mitch]

Time to get Jim Johnson into a starter's role in place of Olson or Liz. But they won't do it, of course. It would make too much sense.

[Orioles Fan From New York]

I saw Billy Rowell play three weeks ago in a game against Winston-Salem. He had an excellent game. even though there was a fan that was busting his chops the entire game (Billy Rowell stalker?). Actually, he is at Advanced A Frederick, not single A, which is Delmarva.

That being said, pitching is 70 percent of the game. All teams need pitching, even the best teams. I hope that Rowell is at AAA Norfolk soon, and then up here with the Orioles.

[Bob]

Orioles Fan From New York wrote:

I saw Billy Rowell play three weeks ago in a game against Winston-Salem. He had an excellent game. even though there was a fan that was busting his chops the entire game (Billy Rowell stalker?). Actually, he is at Advanced A Frederick, not single A, which is Delmarva.
That being said, pitching is 70 percent of the game. All teams need pitching, even the best teams. I hope that Rowell is at AAA Norfolk soon, and then up here with the Orioles.

I admire your rooting interest in the orioles very much and like you said before we always don't see eye and eye on all things , but billy rowell will prove out to be another bust out first round pick. You can tell me all you want about him being only 19 years old,but the really goods one show ability regardless of what age they are. Ghost oriole was correct with the fron office again missing the boat with by passing those 2 other pitchers.

[Jeff]

Once again, thank God fans are running the team (or columnists). What promises?? Please tell me where anyone in the Orioles organization or any one of these prospects "promised" they would be the next Jim Palmer. Broken promises?? This is about the Orioles' management and Orioles players trying really hard and simply not being as good at the business of baseball as 25 of the 30 other teams. Luckily, I think that has changed. Whereas up until last year most experts who spend their day following minor leaguers didn't waste their time with the O's, now they are more and more curious each day. They have the best position prospect in the game at one of the most important position on the field, and a few others making forward progress as well. They have at least a dozen pitchers that obviously have a chance to be positive contributors, with some of the AA guys probably coming up in the middle of 2009. Wanna' talk about Hayden Penn?? The last time he was healthy for any extended period of time, 2006, he was dominant over 88 innings in AAA. At age 21. Not bad. He's 23. You don't give up on a guy that young with that potential without giving him a chance to get healthy.

I guess everyone here sells off there stock immediately when it tanks and holds onto it when it goes up... I'm sure you are all millionaires by now.

[Bob]

Jeff wrote:

Once again, thank God fans are running the team (or columnists). What promises?? Please tell me where anyone in the Orioles organization or any one of these prospects "promised" they would be the next Jim Palmer. Broken promises?? This is about the Orioles' management and Orioles players trying really hard and simply not being as good at the business of baseball as 25 of the 30 other teams. Luckily, I think that has changed. Whereas up until last year most experts who spend their day following minor leaguers didn't waste their time with the O's, now they are more and more curious each day. They have the best position prospect in the game at one of the most important position on the field, and a few others making forward progress as well. They have at least a dozen pitchers that obviously have a chance to be positive contributors, with some of the AA guys probably coming up in the middle of 2009. Wanna' talk about Hayden Penn?? The last time he was healthy for any extended period of time, 2006, he was dominant over 88 innings in AAA. At age 21. Not bad. He's 23. You don't give up on a guy that young with that potential without giving him a chance to get healthy.
I guess everyone here sells off there stock immediately when it tanks and holds onto it when it goes up... I'm sure you are all millionaires by now.

hey jeff you must not have read or listened very carefully when management was blowing all that smoke up you know where on Penn. Look get in the real world and stop heaping so much praise on this organization just yet. I give them credit for pulling off those trades in the off season, and for drafting weiters who certainly looks like the real deal, but please don't by any means be fooled in to believing that we have the next roy halliday or oswaldt, or cc sabathia waiting in the wings. We are so far behind other teams in pitching it makes your head spin.

[T-Bone]

Ghost Oriole wrote:

Good thing that the O's took Billy Rowell #9 instead of Tim Lincecum #10 in 2006 (or Max Scherzer #11). One guy is in Single A and the other guy is in the running for the NL Cy Young.
Wow. Talk about missing by a mile! Another terrible draft pick.
The O's desperately need #1 and #2 SP's, and the current front office doesn't believe in signing top pitching FA's.
If they plan to promote a #1 SP from within, we're still many, many years away from seeing that guy.
Competitive in 2010 with no starting pitching? Yeah, right. Dream on.

Very easy to play arm chair quarterback and say who we should have chosen. The Rowell kid was a stud pick and many projected him in the top 5. The draft is a crap shoot and you just hope to get a couple of players out of the million round draft who can make it at the big league level. The O's have done a nice job getting decent players in the minor league system, but they are failing in player development. Winning breeds winning, and our farm teams hover in mediocrity just like the big league club.

[Bob]

T-Bone wrote:

<quoted text>
Very easy to play arm chair quarterback and say who we should have chosen. The Rowell kid was a stud pick and many projected him in the top 5. The draft is a crap shoot and you just hope to get a couple of players out of the million round draft who can make it at the big league level. The O's have done a nice job getting decent players in the minor league system, but they are failing in player development. Winning breeds winning, and our farm teams hover in mediocrity just like the big league club.

I will bet you right now that rowell will never make it up to the big club and be a contributor. It's easy to be a arm chair qb when the results and the mismanagement over the last 10 years speak for itself. wake up people and realize just how many major mistakes this team has made with there number 1 picks. I admit it is a crap shoot but you have to be right sometimes and they haven't been right nearly enough.

[Joe]

Ghost Oriole wrote:

Good thing that the O's took Billy Rowell #9 instead of Tim Lincecum #10 in 2006 (or Max Scherzer #11). One guy is in Single A and the other guy is in the running for the NL Cy Young.
Wow. Talk about missing by a mile! Another terrible draft pick.
The O's desperately need #1 and #2 SP's, and the current front office doesn't believe in signing top pitching FA's.
If they plan to promote a #1 SP from within, we're still many, many years away from seeing that guy.
Competitive in 2010 with no starting pitching? Yeah, right. Dream on.

Yes the Orioles blew that pick. To quote Duquette in that recent SI piece on Lincecum: "There was a feeling that Lincecum was short, not a real physical kid and mechanically he was going to break down..."

Yet Loewen, the big kid thay took 4th overall with the silky delivery, absolutely broke down.

They have been snake bit and have made bad picks. The hope is it will improve going forward, some teams wait a hundred years for a title we just have to be patient.

[Orioles Fan From New York]

Bob wrote:

<quoted text>I admire your rooting interest in the orioles very much and like you said before we always don't see eye and eye on all things , but billy rowell will prove out to be another bust out first round pick. You can tell me all you want about him being only 19 years old,but the really goods one show ability regardless of what age they are. Ghost oriole was correct with the fron office again missing the boat with by passing those 2 other pitchers.

Realists and cheerleaders, the O's need them both. ESPECIALLY since Baltimore only has 600,000 people, whereas New York City has 8 Million.

[T-Bone]

Bob wrote:

<quoted text>I will bet you right now that rowell will never make it up to the big club and be a contributor. It's easy to be a arm chair qb when the results and the mismanagement over the last 10 years speak for itself. wake up people and realize just how many major mistakes this team has made with there number 1 picks. I admit it is a crap shoot but you have to be right sometimes and they haven't been right nearly enough.

I never said anything about Rowell making the bigs, I just reiterated what was said prior to him being drafted. I have seen him play several times and have not been impressed one bit. That's why I stressed development! Under the proper tutelage some of our previous picks may have developed further and even possibly helped. Instead, the player has been blamed for failing to live up to their billing. More ofetn than not it's the players fault, but sometimes it's coaching. Look at Kranitz...basically the same staff as last year is doing better under his guidance than under Mazzone. The Orioles of yesteryear taught the same things at each level.

[Bob S]

I can't imagine what Matsui is asking for right now.

[Mark]

T-Bone wrote:

<quoted text>
I never said anything about Rowell making the bigs, I just reiterated what was said prior to him being drafted. I have seen him play several times and have not been impressed one bit. That's why I stressed development! Under the proper tutelage some of our previous picks may have developed further and even possibly helped. Instead, the player has been blamed for failing to live up to their billing. More ofetn than not it's the players fault, but sometimes it's coaching. Look at Kranitz...basically the same staff as last year is doing better under his guidance than under Mazzone. The Orioles of yesteryear taught the same things at each level.

Pitching coaches work almost exclusively with starters.

Go look at the numbers this starting staff has.

It's horrendous.

[Ghost Oriole]

Look at Kranitz...basically the same staff as last year is doing better under his guidance than under Mazzone.
----------

T-Bone,

Ummm...have you watched Oriole pitching this season? The team is 26th in ERA, and the starters are 28th, just barely ahead of Texas.

They're awful, and swoon season is upon us.

And Trembley says they shouldn't promote anyone from AA to help the situation. It could get even worse.

However, it's clear that Baltimore has terrible player development. In the last 15 years, how many All Stars have been developed by the Orioles?

[Ghost Oriole]

The draft is only a crapshoot to teams with poor preparation.

The O's continually take "tools" players or players from high school. Once in a great while, they take a top player from a top college program (Wieters, Mussina, McDonald).

They took "tools" players in the 2nd and 3rd round this year when the team desperately needs talent. Poor planning.

And they haven't signed this year's top pick, so he'll miss a year of training.

Defending the O's drafting skills is beyond comprehension. Baltimore has developed less ML talent than nearly every MLB team in the last ten years. And no, I'm not going to research it.