O's plan may need tweak

He could have done without the injury that turned Adam Loewen from one of the club's most promising starting pitchers into a long-shot Rick Ankiel wannabe.

[abc123]

You've got to be kidding. Signing more veterans is the last thing this sinking ship needs. And now it's come to mediocre oldsters like Melvin Mora and Kevin Millar opining on the need for veterans. And AM seems to be going along. Good grief.

[Big Al]

Burnett sounds like a good option. I'd stay clear of Sabathia though. The Brewers have nothing to lose with him the last few months so they seem to be overworking him. I'd be surprised if he comes close to pitching as well next year. Burnett would cost less too. Now if we could just talk Toronto into dealing Halladay for suspects, I mean prospects.

[Ghost Results]

Why do so many fans WANT TO LOSE?

Seriously.

The team desperately needs talent, and it doesn't exist in the minors.

Signing GOOD free agents and/or making trades for real talent are the only options, unless you want to stay buried in last place for years.

Good article, Peter.

abc123---- as a "fan" of the Orioles, you seem to be more interested in making giant profits for Angelos while the team loses.

Why is it OK for every team in baseball to sign FA's, but it's not good for the Orioles?

I agree with you that the team doesn't need BAD veterans.

[Ghost Results]

The reason Burnett is under consideration is that he has made it known he would like to play near his home, which happens to be here in the Baltimore area. He'll still want to get paid, but if he's motivated to pitch here, the Orioles would be foolish not to consider him
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Why are people from Maryland so enamored of anyone who grew up or expresses appreciation for the state?

I swear, the state has a major inferiority complex, and I don't know why.

Does it really make sense to factor in a player's birth state when building a professional team? I mean, we know that Asian players are not welcome, but why should Maryland players be given uber status when it doesn't matter at all on the field?

I suppose it's the Cal Ripken legacy. Ripken never talked about winning games; he only cared that he played.

[abc123]

Ghost Results wrote:

Why do so many fans WANT TO LOSE?
Seriously.
The team desperately needs talent, and it doesn't exist in the minors.
Signing GOOD free agents and/or making trades for real talent are the only options, unless you want to stay buried in last place for years.
Good article, Peter.
abc123---- as a "fan" of the Orioles, you seem to be more interested in making giant profits for Angelos while the team loses.
Why is it OK for every team in baseball to sign FA's, but it's not good for the Orioles?
I agree with you that the team doesn't need BAD veterans.

The Orioles have been signing free agents for the past 15 years and the pitiful results are plain to see. The fact is the O's are buried in the same division with New York and Boston and Baltimore will never be the place for top of the line free agents. Not all teams sign free agents. Look at the success the Twins have with their approach and the A's have had similar success in the past 15 years.

[Ghost Results]

The Orioles have been signing free agents for the past 15 years and the pitiful results are plain to see. The fact is the O's are buried in the same division with New York and Boston and Baltimore will never be the place for top of the line free agents. Not all teams sign free agents. Look at the success the Twins have with their approach and the A's have had similar success in the past 15 years.
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Wrong.

The only reason the '96 and '97 teams went to the playoffs was free agents.

If you truly want to try and build a championship team only from the minor league system, the Baltimore Orioles will be buried in last place forever.

The Rays have a Japanese player at 2B, a FA at 1B, and three SP's from other teams.

The Yankees have a #1 Chinese SP, a Japanese LF and FA's throughout the lineup.

The Red Sox have a #1 Japanese SP, a Japanese reliever, and a bunch of FA's throughout the lineup.

The Jays are the closest thing to a home-grown team, and they haven't seen the playoffs for the last 15 years (and they have Halladay).

So when you call for building from within, I have to say that I prefer a CHANCE at winning someday.

You're rooting for losing.

[Chuck from PA]

I agree. The O's have some pretty good pitchers coming up through the farm, but they will not be ready for another year or two, so they should go out and get one or two starters this winter.

[ken]

how can it be possible that our pitchers can't piych closer to the plate,what do they practise

[Ken]

I swear I've been hearing about these great arms in the minors for almost a decade now. Yet all I see are guys who can't throw strikes or get through 4 innings without giving up 5 runs. It's great to be stockpiling young arms as they supposedly have been doing for the past 5 years, but it doesn't mean squat if they can't get anybody out.

[Roy Hobbs]

No Mr. MacPhail it's not about what happened last week. It's about what happened the past 11 years. Lots of promisses like yours but with the same bitter results

[LoneCrow]

Bottom line: We can't afford any pitcher that is good enough to make a significant dent in our W-L numbers. So, O's fans, get used to AA pitching for a while...and get used to the end-of-season nose dives. It doesn't matter to me. I'll still watch a ton of O's game up until the Ravens season starts.

[Hermitaj1]

The O's have been touting the next Jim Palmer to fans since, well...since Jim Palmer retired. But year after year the messiah-pitcher du jour shows up and flames out: Ken Dixon...Eric Bell...John Habyan...Ben McDonald...Bob Milacki...Arthur Rhodes...Rocky Coppinger...Sidney Ponson...Daniel Cabrera.

I can name only three Orioles farm-raised pitchers who've had success since the late 1990s: Mike Mussina, B.J. Ryan. Maybe you count Eric Bedard and John Maine as "successful...jury's out on these guys.

The point is that the Orioles organization has been horrid in developing pitchers forever. MacPhail needs to correct this if his plan is going to work.

[rick]

If Tracksel (sp?) would have given a hundred innings before showing his backside we wouldn't be having this conversation. Yes, we need at least one innings eater.

[Ghost Results]

BJ Ryan came from the Reds' system (barely pitched in the minors for the O's).

Mussina was pre-Angelos.

Basically, the Orioles have not produced 3 good SP's in the last 15 years.

If you really want to search, try and find an Oriole-produced power hitter in the last 25 years.

Good luck.

[Ghost Results]

What is an "innings eater"???

Is that another name for a bad pitcher who stays healthy and guarantees a lot of losses?

Livan Hernandez will be available. He pitches (and loses) a lot of games. Sounds like a good fit.

Why would anyone "need" a pitcher who is all but assured to have a high ERA?

[Roy]

I'm all for developing talent from within, but to pretend that we can do it all without touching the FA market if foolishness.
All the top clubs have at least a few FAs. The O's don't have the cash to compete head to head in a bidding war with the Yankees or the Red Sox, but they surely have enough money to get a decent pitcher or two. We don't need to have 7 or 8 FA stars, but we need a couple and the rotation has got to have at least one or two decent veterans who the young guys can learn from, and who can keep the wheels from coming off every fall.
The funny thing is that the way the season started, the expectation was that our pitching staff would round into shape and next year we'd be shopping for offense. Now it's just the opposite. The O's can score, but they can't pitch. Instead of going after Teixiera, spend a few bucks on some arms. We'll never get Sabbathia, he wouldn't come here unless you held a gun to his head, but Burnnett seems worth trying for.

[riverside]

Good insight Peter. Let AM do his job and rebuild this team. I think he has more experience than the posters on this board. No one expected a turnaround in one season. It will take 3-4 years to build a true contender (and keep one). I think we all can agree that pitching is always "iffy". A star one year does not mean a star the next, with very few exceptions. All teams load up with pitching prospects and they are lucky if one or two become stars, or even major league quality. That said, the O's may have to bring in a veteran. Cabrera and Trachsel were supposed to be those guys. Now AM knows they weren't.

[Hermitaj1]

Ghost Results wrote:

BJ Ryan came from the Reds' system (barely pitched in the minors for the O's).
Mussina was pre-Angelos.
Basically, the Orioles have not produced 3 good SP's in the last 15 years.
If you really want to search, try and find an Oriole-produced power hitter in the last 25 years.
Good luck.

Calvin Pickering, Sam Horn and Jim Traber!!(Sorry...couldn't resist...)

[Jimbo]

An innings eater is a vet that usually gives you 6 innings and an ERA around 4.5-5.00. They're usually back of the rotation guys and aren't expected to give much more than that. Trachsel was supposed to be that guy for us this season, but he completely lost it during the offseason.

I'd like to see Burnett here...if he can stay healthy. Him and another vet would actually make me feel positive about next season's rotation.

And the only AL East team Sabathia would sign with is possibly the Red Sox. He said himself he would block a trade to the Yankees and there was speculation he would do the same to the Red Sox. Some guys just don't want to play for the money grubbing teams. I'm tired of the BNYSPN attitude that no team can sign a decent free agent because New York and Boston get first dibs due to their huge payrolls.

[Ghost Results]

Hermitaj1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Calvin Pickering, Sam Horn and Jim Traber!!(Sorry...couldn't resist...)

Yup, you got it.

That's the quality coming from the O's system. Wieters is going to be good, but no credit is due to the instructors in the minors since he hit from Day One.

Thank goodness the team drafted a bunch of tiny high school kids this year. That'll reverse the trend (not).