Olson improved, but O's drag on

Olson improved, but O's drag on

There are 34 comments on the Baltimore Sun story from Sep 19, 2008, titled Olson improved, but O's drag on. In it, Baltimore Sun reports that:

With the way Garrett Olson's previous start went, anything the rookie left-hander did last night against the Toronto Blue Jays probably could have been characterized as progress.

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12345abc

Chesapeake Beach, MD

#1 Sep 19, 2008
This conventional "wisdom" of managing by pitch count and a bunch of one out specialists in the bullpen is the main reason pitching has gotten so lousy throughout baseball and players have gotten so lazy. If every pitcher goes out on such short leashes, the pressure to perform increases and the performance suffers. The inevitable result is the creation of a mindset where every ache and pain is considered serious and players sit out.

This managing by pitch count is ruining pitchers and creates the necessity of having 13 pitchers on a 25 man roster. Of course, managers like Trembley prefer having few position players so they want have to keep so many people happy with playing time. You could hire a monkey to manage in this era where pitch counts mean all and unfortunately the O's and many other teams have done just that, hired monkeys with calculators.
Bum Bum Bum You are a Bum

Riderwood, MD

#2 Sep 19, 2008
Mora, Millar, Cintron, Baez, Walker, Payton, Ramon. I just can't wait till next year. If the Zero's are serious about putting an interesting team on the field then get rid of these guys NOW!
SevernDave

Fort George G Meade, MD

#3 Sep 19, 2008
Trembley's quick trigger when it comes to pulling the starters out has really gotten ridiculous. There's no way the young boys learn how to bear down and pitch out of trouble when their manager pulls them if they allow a base runner after the 5th inning or, God forbid, start to approach 100 pitches!! Ridiculous!! I like Trembley, but in this part of the game, he needs to wise up.
htrty

Falls Church, VA

#4 Sep 19, 2008
"He had gone as far as he was going to go," Trembley said of his decision to yank Olson. "I felt comfortable bringing in Miller. I was going to do what I thought I could do to help the team win the game."
This is another or many O's losses that Trembley is responsible for; pulling Olson in the 6th (who was pitching terrific) with two outs for another erractic reliever. Why pull a starter that is pitching well, giving you a known, for a pitcher that will give you the unknown (in this case a wild pitch and a 2-run single leading to a loss)? Oh, that's right, Olson had reached the magic and terrible 100 pitch count so had to go.
Trembley is a HORRIBLE manager and knows NOTHING about how to handle a pitching staff. Well, I'm wrong, he knows how handle a pitching staff and make them lose.
What a doofus.
BobbyWoontz

Dover, DE

#5 Sep 19, 2008
I'm starting to believe Trembley doesn't like to use pinch runners. With the O's down by a run in the 9th with one out, where was the pinch runner for Scott at 1st base? Montanez, maybe? Castro? Scott reaches 2nd base, still no pinch runner! Scott reaches 3rd base with one out, still no pinch runner!

That's damn good managing, it's like Trembs knew he didn't need a pinch runner, cause the O's weren't going to score anyway.
Bob S

Augusta, ME

#6 Sep 19, 2008
12345abc wrote:
This conventional "wisdom" of managing by pitch count and a bunch of one out specialists in the bullpen is the main reason pitching has gotten so lousy throughout baseball and players have gotten so lazy. If every pitcher goes out on such short leashes, the pressure to perform increases and the performance suffers. The inevitable result is the creation of a mindset where every ache and pain is considered serious and players sit out.
This managing by pitch count is ruining pitchers and creates the necessity of having 13 pitchers on a 25 man roster. Of course, managers like Trembley prefer having few position players so they want have to keep so many people happy with playing time. You could hire a monkey to manage in this era where pitch counts mean all and unfortunately the O's and many other teams have done just that, hired monkeys with calculators.
I think a pitcher learns the most when the situation is the toughest. Starters especially. When a starter never gets the opportunity to work through a difficult spot in the late innings, they become softer and more content to be a five or six inning player. This mentality, in turn, pressures the bullpen more, leading to overuse and burnout.

I seriously doubt it has ever been proven that limiting a young pitcher (or ANY starter, for that matter) to 100 pitches has damaged their arm or development. Managers, in attempting to save their own jobs, refuse to take any risks whatsoever with their starting pitchers. This has led to soft, ineffective pitching.

What drives me nuts especially is when a starter throws eight effective innings and then gets pulled. Not because they're getting bombed or because they're hurt, or even tired, but because they've reached the dreaded 100-pitch count. And, of course, baseball managing 'wisdom' says to bring in a guy out of the bullpen to get the final three outs. Because he's more capable of getting those three outs? Of course not. Because the in-game situation dictates it? No way. But because the manager's survival manual says to. And, oh my gosh, the starter might hurt his arm in the 9th inning, ending his career!

Actually throwing the ball over the plate would help too. Obviously, a concept foreign to the majority of Oriole pitchers. What a sorry state in baseball.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#7 Sep 19, 2008
Trembley had a poor record as a manager in the minor leagues.

For some reason, the front office expects he'll suddenly become a good manager at the major league level.

Winning seasons, total: 7 seasons out of 22.

Nice the see the "rebuilding" includes guys with a history of losing.
12345abc

Chesapeake Beach, MD

#8 Sep 19, 2008
Bob S wrote:
<quoted text>
I think a pitcher learns the most when the situation is the toughest. Starters especially. When a starter never gets the opportunity to work through a difficult spot in the late innings, they become softer and more content to be a five or six inning player. This mentality, in turn, pressures the bullpen more, leading to overuse and burnout.
I seriously doubt it has ever been proven that limiting a young pitcher (or ANY starter, for that matter) to 100 pitches has damaged their arm or development. Managers, in attempting to save their own jobs, refuse to take any risks whatsoever with their starting pitchers. This has led to soft, ineffective pitching.
What drives me nuts especially is when a starter throws eight effective innings and then gets pulled. Not because they're getting bombed or because they're hurt, or even tired, but because they've reached the dreaded 100-pitch count. And, of course, baseball managing 'wisdom' says to bring in a guy out of the bullpen to get the final three outs. Because he's more capable of getting those three outs? Of course not. Because the in-game situation dictates it? No way. But because the manager's survival manual says to. And, oh my gosh, the starter might hurt his arm in the 9th inning, ending his career!
Actually throwing the ball over the plate would help too. Obviously, a concept foreign to the majority of Oriole pitchers. What a sorry state in baseball.
Bob, I of course agree with your brilliant assessment since you agreed with mine. One minor nitpick if I may. The trained monkey approach of management by pitch count has also led to the conventional "wisdom" of the overworked bullpen. How the hell can pitchers who throw 40 innings in a six month season be overworked? It's all part of the con that allows players to sit out with normal aches and pains and God forbid, "tired arms."
Anti Gary

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#9 Sep 19, 2008
As a fan of the Orioles since 1975, I have become terribly upset by what this franchise has become. I'm starting to wonder if the team is worth watching anymore. It's embarrassing to see the team lose year afer year. I have come to this conclusion.
Let Angelos move the team to another city. Since he's not going to sell the franchise to someone who cares about the fans, its time to move on. Go ahead and take the team somewhere else and let us get an expansion team. What else can we do? Losing is contagious. This is really sad. What else can we do? Aren't you guys wore down mentally?

“Ravens/Orioles fan in Jax Fla”

Since: Sep 07

Glen Burnie,Md(Jax Fla now)

#10 Sep 19, 2008
When is this crap going to end,why don't they just forfite the rest of the games and go home,the players don't want to be here,you can see it in the way they are playing and the looks on their faces.
Os fan from New Jersey

Rockaway, NJ

#11 Sep 19, 2008
Anti Gary wrote:
As a fan of the Orioles since 1975, I have become terribly upset by what this franchise has become. I'm starting to wonder if the team is worth watching anymore. It's embarrassing to see the team lose year afer year. I have come to this conclusion.
Let Angelos move the team to another city. Since he's not going to sell the franchise to someone who cares about the fans, its time to move on. Go ahead and take the team somewhere else and let us get an expansion team. What else can we do? Losing is contagious. This is really sad. What else can we do? Aren't you guys wore down mentally?
On the now rare occasion when they play a well-pitched game I watch or listen.(I used to have season tickets for over 15 years until, say, year 5 of the last 'rebuild').

The truth is that this is private business that puts out a very bad product. So I stopped buying years ago. When the business puts out a good product I will buy it. They don't have to win the World Series. But they have to play good baseball. They do not.
Phil

Nampa, ID

#13 Sep 19, 2008
they need to reduce ticket prices b/c b-more has another minor league team. Some nights they are plain old bush league! Fire Trembley, crowe the rest of the coaches. get rid of the old players. Huff can stay if he promises to have a repeat year like this one. Peter and McFail better provide some relief for the long time fans of B-more.
Bob

Washington, DC

#14 Sep 19, 2008
Ghost Oriole wrote:
Trembley had a poor record as a manager in the minor leagues.
For some reason, the front office expects he'll suddenly become a good manager at the major league level.
Winning seasons, total: 7 seasons out of 22.
Nice the see the "rebuilding" includes guys with a history of losing.
Well ghost you can't say that this organization isn't a equal opportunity employer. You as pitching deprived as we are that performance by Olson last night probably was enough to get him in the rotation next year. See if Daniel would have given them one of his 6 innings gems that he comes up with every 20 or so games they might have given him that 5 million dollar contract. Burress, Olson, and Daniel don't have the mentality or the talent to be major league pitchers, get rid of all of them.
Hermitaj1

Keymar, MD

#15 Sep 19, 2008
Phil wrote:
they need to reduce ticket prices b/c b-more has another minor league team. Some nights they are plain old bush league! Fire Trembley, crowe the rest of the coaches. get rid of the old players. Huff can stay if he promises to have a repeat year like this one. Peter and McFail better provide some relief for the long time fans of B-more.
They're selling tickets for $1.00 -- one dollar -- at the end of the season, Phil! I think this is last ditch attempt to avoid finishing under the 2 million attendance figure -- the attendance Mendoza line -- for the first time ever at Camden Yards. They've got 7 games to book 146,000 fans (or an average of about 20K per game to avoid a sub 2M fan year.) This, of course, makes no account of the fact that 500,000 of the fans to date were visiting BoSox and Yankees fans.

The fan base -- once over 3 1/2 MILLION has been decimated by this ownership.
tslats

Arlington, VA

#16 Sep 19, 2008
Are the season ticket renewal packages in the mail yet?

I know how many years in a row they've had a losing season but what irks me is the number of years in a row they've totally given up the second half of the year.

It ain't cheap buying those seat packages, my price doesn't go down with your lack of effort there O's.

What a disgrace. I'm keeping it in perspective, this all pales in comparison to things like Galveston and those who are losing their jobs as a result of the latest credit crisis but when viewed through the window of professional sports it's a pretty disgusting sight.

If the players hustled as much as the ushers at Camden, we'd be in great shape.

“Baltimore Fan Forever”

Since: Jun 08

Greensboro, NC

#17 Sep 19, 2008
Ghost Oriole wrote:
Trembley had a poor record as a manager in the minor leagues.
For some reason, the front office expects he'll suddenly become a good manager at the major league level.
Winning seasons, total: 7 seasons out of 22.
Nice the see the "rebuilding" includes guys with a history of losing.
Hey Eeyore!
Baseball America named Trembley as one of the top 5 minor league managers in the past 20 years.

But once again you conveniently left that out of your opining. Once again, concentrate on the negative.
Donald from Hagerstown

Hagerstown, MD

#18 Sep 19, 2008
Garrett Olsen is never going to be a "shut down starter". He doesn't have the talent. And what was this baloney "Jim Miller's first pitch went to the backstop"??????? All this organization has to show for this season is a bunch of ragtag arms whom no other team in the league could possibly want. The absolute inability of this organization to put a winning team on the field year after year is appalling.
Who Cares Anymore

Ponte Vedra Beach, FL

#19 Sep 19, 2008
The nature of sports is that someone has to lose. The O's however lose all the time. They have a poor scouting system, poor player development, and a very poor coaching staff. No good ballplayer wants to play on the O's. This 'rebuilding' garbage is just a total scam to sell tickets to die-hard fans and parents who are looking for something to do with the kids. But it starts with coaching: not running out infield hits, slamming down the bat at a called strike or pop-fly, unawareness running the bases, hit batsmen, wild pitches, countless (OK, they CAN be counted) walks, bad throws to first, and nearly every other imaginable screw-up possible. I'm 58, and Baltimore will not have another championship MLB team in my lifetime. I guess a game is still a good place to go on a date - it's not like you'd care about the game and it shows your date you've got money to burn.
Old Fan

Parkville, MD

#20 Sep 19, 2008
Lose, lose, lose, same B***S*** we have heard for 11 years. Hell with you Orioles your lousy and a disgrace. Do the city of Baltimore a favor and go play somewhere else!
Old Fan

Parkville, MD

#21 Sep 19, 2008
Hermitaj1 wrote:
<quoted text>
They're selling tickets for $1.00 -- one dollar -- at the end of the season, Phil! I think this is last ditch attempt to avoid finishing under the 2 million attendance figure -- the attendance Mendoza line -- for the first time ever at Camden Yards. They've got 7 games to book 146,000 fans (or an average of about 20K per game to avoid a sub 2M fan year.) This, of course, makes no account of the fact that 500,000 of the fans to date were visiting BoSox and Yankees fans.
The fan base -- once over 3 1/2 MILLION has been decimated by this ownership.
$1 is still too much to see this HORRIBLE team play!

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