For Orioles, a season of mixed signals

For Orioles, a season of mixed signals

There are 122 comments on the Baltimore Sun story from Sep 29, 2008, titled For Orioles, a season of mixed signals. In it, Baltimore Sun reports that:

Though it went unsaid by the Orioles' front office, this season was never about wins and losses, or where the team finished in the American League East standings.

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jimmy swift

United States

#1 Sep 29, 2008
.''If we can get two starting pitchers, I think we can be really good." George Sherrill . I thing George is almost right on . They need to add 3 starting Major League Pitchers to go with Guthery and they could be in the hunt .I don't see it happening .
jimmy swift

United States

#2 Sep 29, 2008
I forgot to say Quality (15 plus wins) Major League Pitchers who will command big dollars .
Joe

Waldorf, MD

#3 Sep 29, 2008
I think that first sentence should be required reading of all the domesday posters. "This season was never about wins and losses, or where the team finished." I have been telling the numbnuts who post on here all along that our expectations were extremely low and the losses should be viewed in that light. However day after day, the same suspects would be here taking the teams temperature, and trashing them and decrying the manager. This finish however, was our destiny, there were too many deficiencies for it too have ended any other way.

That we have a new plan and a new renowed GM I feel calls for a little deference from the fans. The problem is most want this fixed overnight. Happily the GM is not into "timeframes" as he explained yesterday during the game. Meaning that repairing the farm system and infrastucture first will allow great results to then follow the the big league level, as what happened in Tampa.
Joe

Waldorf, MD

#4 Sep 29, 2008
I am happy on the one hand that Peter G. Angelos is encouraging MacPhail to spend, but I am of the mind that it is still too early for this measure. I think Andy MacPhail understands this as well.

Most any free agent will cost us a draft pick and that flys against what we are trying to do with the farm system. Aside from that I have had my fill of them, give me a young bad team over this older overpaid group that crawled to the wire. The time will come for free agents, it is not now however.
Surf52

Baltimore, MD

#5 Sep 29, 2008
What was the final tally, 63 and 96? What kind of a mixed signal was that?
FansAgainstDrunk Posters

Clarksville, MD

#6 Sep 29, 2008
Joe wrote:
I am happy on the one hand that Peter G. Angelos is encouraging MacPhail to spend, but I am of the mind that it is still too early for this measure. I think Andy MacPhail understands this as well.
Most any free agent will cost us a draft pick and that flys against what we are trying to do with the farm system. Aside from that I have had my fill of them, give me a young bad team over this older overpaid group that crawled to the wire. The time will come for free agents, it is not now however.
Cost us a draft pick? This isn't football, it's baseball. There is no salary cap and draft picks USUALLY don't pan out at the same success rate as in the NFL. If you want to put more butts in the seats, then spend, spend, spend, while you continue to build the minor league system. Why does it have to be one or the other? Good teams do both and the Orioles have done neither. This organization has been in disarray for so long that except for the few die hard, hype believing fans that go to games, it will take a drastic change in the lineup to right the ship and attract a solid fan base.

Angelos has a lot to fix before this team isn't anything but a cellar dweller and most clear thinking people don't believe he is capable of changing his stripes. But hang in there Joe, and keep supporting this God awful franchise, and keep financing this perennial loser because the little man isn't going to get any of my hard earned money. I and many others just can't bring ourselves to support bad baseball.
Joe

Waldorf, MD

#7 Sep 29, 2008
FansAgainstDrunkPosters wrote:
<quoted text>Cost us a draft pick? This isn't football, it's baseball. There is no salary cap and draft picks USUALLY don't pan out at the same success rate as in the NFL. If you want to put more butts in the seats, then spend, spend, spend, while you continue to build the minor league system. Why does it have to be one or the other? Good teams do both and the Orioles have done neither. This organization has been in disarray for so long that except for the few die hard, hype believing fans that go to games, it will take a drastic change in the lineup to right the ship and attract a solid fan base.
Angelos has a lot to fix before this team isn't anything but a cellar dweller and most clear thinking people don't believe he is capable of changing his stripes. But hang in there Joe, and keep supporting this God awful franchise, and keep financing this perennial loser because the little man isn't going to get any of my hard earned money. I and many others just can't bring ourselves to support bad baseball.
I am not of the opinion that a couple of middling free agents will change our fortunes very much. The marquee free agent is not something we are likely to land anyway and consider this, even the very best payer in the world Albert Pujols is only worth 9 wins during the course of a season. If we had Tex all this year instead of Millar? He would have brought us a grand total of 4 more wins based on the stats, and cost us 15 million more dollars, see my point? We have too many needs and draft picks are less reliable but they are better used with a 'machine gun effect' and taking away 1-3 of the top 100 amateur players will hamper your chances of producing young talent. The hardcore fans understand the score and fans like you will be back once we have the team fixed properly, so its all good.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#8 Sep 29, 2008
What Joe is saying, is that he'd rather watch a bunch of inexperienced players and washouts. Because losing is guaranteed with those guys, and some good players might get in the way of last place, his goal.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#9 Sep 29, 2008
Domesday?

Is that a holiday in Tampa?
Joe

Waldorf, MD

#10 Sep 29, 2008
Ghost Oriole wrote:
Domesday?
Is that a holiday in Tampa?
Funny. Admittedly, I am someone who relies too much on spell check.
Mr Baseball

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#11 Sep 29, 2008
Ghost Oriole wrote:
What Joe is saying, is that he'd rather watch a bunch of inexperienced players and washouts. Because losing is guaranteed with those guys, and some good players might get in the way of last place, his goal.
I'm just in awe of how Joe is able to predict with certainty how many wins Albert Pujols would bring us. If it were up to Joe the owners would just play the whole season on PlayStation 3 so he could put all his statistics to use. Lets see that statistics for how many of the O's first round draft picks have panned out in the last 15 years. BTW, Guthrie sure looked 100% yesterday. The team really benefited from him coming back for this meaningless game. Meaningless except for him and his attempt to get to .500. It wouldn't suprise me to hear that he gets his shoulder scoped in the next couple of months. No way should he have been allowed to pitch. It's just a dumb move if your considering the future of the team. Maybe Joe was secretly hoping that he got hurt to eliminate any chance of climbing out of the cellar next year.
Joe

Waldorf, MD

#12 Sep 29, 2008
Mr Baseball wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm just in awe of how Joe is able to predict with certainty how many wins Albert Pujols would bring us. If it were up to Joe the owners would just play the whole season on PlayStation 3 so he could put all his statistics to use. Lets see that statistics for how many of the O's first round draft picks have panned out in the last 15 years. BTW, Guthrie sure looked 100% yesterday. The team really benefited from him coming back for this meaningless game. Meaningless except for him and his attempt to get to .500. It wouldn't suprise me to hear that he gets his shoulder scoped in the next couple of months. No way should he have been allowed to pitch. It's just a dumb move if your considering the future of the team. Maybe Joe was secretly hoping that he got hurt to eliminate any chance of climbing out of the cellar next year.
First off you have been discredited, no knowledgable fan presses a point about National League Umpires 8 years after they have been combined into one group with the American League umpires. Where have you been these last 8 years? Of course you wouldn't then know that every player has a value of exactly how many games he is worth to a team or that many players have negative value.

Guthrie? He was trying to establish leadership on a pitching staff sorely lacking it and set good a good example among his peers, obviously something you know nothing about.

We are not starting this over again today, you are obviously a part-time fan and don't have nearly the knowledge base that I have. So to further try and reason with what amounts to a pupil is a waste of my time.
SevernDave

Fort George G Meade, MD

#13 Sep 29, 2008
The future success of this franchise depends on Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, Jim Johnson, Matt Albers, Matt Wieters, Troy Patton, Nolan Reimold, Jake Arieta, Chris Tillman, Brian Bergeson, Brandon Erbe, Billy Rowell, etc.... It does NOT depend on buying a couple of high (over) priced free agents. MacPhail is doing exactly the right thing so far. Throw out the previous 10 years of ignorance and futility in the front office, this was YEAR ONE of the REAL re-building. Real fans understand this, fringe fans and bandwagon fans don't.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#14 Sep 29, 2008
Joe, for the love of all things holy, can you PLEASE give up the stupid NL-AL umpire rant.

OK, you were correct about one thing. You hold onto that one thing like a security blanket. I gave up my blanket when I was three. It's time for you to give up yours.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#15 Sep 29, 2008
MacPhail is doing exactly the right thing so far. Throw out the previous 10 years of ignorance and futility in the front office, this was YEAR ONE of the REAL re-building. Real fans understand this, fringe fans and bandwagon fans don't.
----------

I'm sure we'll hear the same mantra from "real fans" after three or four years of last place.

Newsflash: MacPhail is not a good GM. They ran him out of Chicago, and the team started winning titles AFTER he left.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#16 Sep 29, 2008
Angelos must be in heaven.

Real fans are happy with last place.

Real fans want to lose in order to secure draft picks (as though this was the NBA).

Real fans fight with the fans who want to see the team WIN.
Joe

Waldorf, MD

#17 Sep 29, 2008
Ghost Oriole wrote:
Joe, for the love of all things holy, can you PLEASE give up the stupid NL-AL umpire rant.
OK, you were correct about one thing. You hold onto that one thing like a security blanket. I gave up my blanket when I was three. It's time for you to give up yours.
The point is he carries himself like an expert, yet in June during interleague play said that: "the Orioles need to adjust to the National League umpires strike zones", and he did this on more than one occasion. Now when he won't listen and pulls the he is an expert card because he played for 30 years (big deal)and I have to point this out to him, that no he's really not an expert. Sorry for being redundant but he has never really answered for this Sin either and explained this eight year oversight. What has he been watching? And why does he call himself Mr Baseball? I eat sleep and breathe the game and am up on all the trends and I still miss some things, but eight years, my God.
Mr Baseball

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#18 Sep 29, 2008
Joe wrote:
<quoted text>
First off you have been discredited, no knowledgable fan presses a point about National League Umpires 8 years after they have been combined into one group with the American League umpires. Where have you been these last 8 years? Of course you wouldn't then know that every player has a value of exactly how many games he is worth to a team or that many players have negative value.
Guthrie? He was trying to establish leadership on a pitching staff sorely lacking it and set good a good example among his peers, obviously something you know nothing about.
We are not starting this over again today, you are obviously a part-time fan and don't have nearly the knowledge base that I have. So to further try and reason with what amounts to a pupil is a waste of my time.
Yes, Joe, you were correct about one thing. I made a mistake regarding the NL-AL umpire thing, which has nothing to do with knowledge of how the game of baseball is played. I have 30 years of playing the game to teach me that. I also have a life outside of baseball and enjoy other things. I will admit my mistake, however you come on here acting like you are better then anyone else and I won't stand for that. I have proven you wrong on many issues here and you throw up smoke screens or change the subject. The fact that other posters have chimed in validating that should tell you to just shutup and go away. You're not always right and you have a lot to learn about how the game of baseball is played between the lines. Any geek with time on their hands can read Money Ball and Baseball America and memorize stats but it takes playing the game and the knowing the human aspect of the game to truly master it. On that I will always be your teacher and you a failing pupil too arrogant and stubborn to open your mind and learn.
Merv

Alexandria, VA

#19 Sep 29, 2008
Look, if you can sign Mark Teixeira, do it. He's certainly not going to hurt your team's chances to win and is a fine defensive player on top of that. The root of the Orioles problems lie with pitching and more specifically, pitching in the minor league system. We have developed no one outside of Eric Bedard who can get major league hitters out. To say they are fish out of water up here in the major leagues would be the understatement of the century. They have no clue what they're doing, can rarely throw even a fastball for strikes, cannot field their positions, and have horrendous mechanics. Until this problem is resolved, the only alternative is to try and obtain quality, established pitching through trades. If that means getting rid of Brian Roberts, so be it. See ya later, Brian. Who cares? He's a talented lead off hitter who has proven to be irrelevant in changing the pitiful climate of losing on this team. If someone is willing to give us a good pitcher for him, hallelujah! Take it, for God's sake. You'll never build a winning ball club strictly through prospects and minor leaguers. As history as shown, even the Orioles didn't get over the hump until they traded for Frank Robinson.
Joe

Waldorf, MD

#20 Sep 29, 2008
Ghost Oriole wrote:
Angelos must be in heaven.
Real fans are happy with last place.
Real fans want to lose in order to secure draft picks (as though this was the NBA).
Real fans fight with the fans who want to see the team WIN.
I don't like fighting honestly. But he slandered the manager one day and it has been on ever since. I admit I should have let it go in the context of what this is and who he is though. It's over.

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