#835739 Jan 9, 2013
Second, Obama and Holder probably would not have believed that increased violence in Mexico could lead to tougher regulation of guns in the U.S. Americans simply don’t care enough about Mexico to alter domestic policy based on what occurs there, especially when it comes to an issue as passionately and endlessly argued as gun control. Americans view violence in Mexico the way they viewed violence in Colombia – unfortunate, typical, and not our problem at any fundamental level.
It was always possible that a few Americans, especially some involved in law enforcement, would be killed with guns that were part of Fast and Furious. But in this event, the probable consequence is what we have witnessed – major embarrassment for the administration, not an effective vehicle for advocating more gun control. On balance, it seems unlikely that the administration would come up with a program this risky in the pie-in-the-sky hope of incresing gun control.
Why, then, was the program implemented? As noted, considerable frustration existed over attempts to deal with gun running through interdiction at the point of sale because this form of enforcement resulted in the apprehension of only the small fry. Those who came up with Fast and Furious probably hoped that if guns followed their natural course into Mexico, they would lead to much more important players. Wire taps and other surveillance of Mexican cartel bosses would assist in nailing these players, or so the thinking went.
It was a very bad idea, poorly executed. But, as conservatives should understand better than most, the government frequently implements very bad ideas and does so incompetently. In any case, trying to apprehend cartel bosses through Fast and Furious strikes me as less foolish than intentionally increasing shootings in Mexico to enhance the cause of gun control in the U.S.
This strikes me as largely correct. If this was a conspiracy theory, it was an incredibly poorly designed one from Day One and it depended on Americans giving much of a crap about Mexicans killing Mexicans, which honestly doesn’t seem to be very likely. More importantly, though, and as I argued myself last week, it is far more plausible to believe that what happened in Fast & Furious operation was the result of a group of people with a bad idea who put together a bad plan that was badly executed. You don’t need to look very far to find examples of other badly executed government operations than that it was part of some nefarious political conspiracy. Indeed, the extent to which this seems to occur on a regular basis, and to which the details of said operations inevitably leak out at some point, makes it hard to believe that a true nefarious conspiracy could ever really be executed by American political officials. Watergate was arguably such a conspiracy, but it was so incompetently handled that its main even was referred to, quite correctly, as a “third-rate burglary.” The remarkable thing about conspiracy theorists, most of whom tend to be very anti-government, is that they seem to ascribe far more competence and ability to keep a secret to government officials than available evidence would suggested is warranted
#835740 Jan 9, 2013
There’s another reason that the conspiracy theory story falls apart, and it’s an issue for which the advocates of the theory don’t seem to be able to provide an answer. From the time he was a candidate all the way through the first three years of his Presidency, there’s not been any evidence that the Obama Administration placed any real priority on trying to strengthen gun control laws. If Fast & Furious really was part of a conspiracy to tighten those laws, then where was the legislation that would have been waiting to be pushed once the “evidence” started coming out? Even during the two years when Democrats controlled both Houses of Congress and the White House, there was no serious effort to push any such legislation. Mostly, this is because there just isn’t a political constituency for gun control like there was during the first two years of the Clinton Administration when things like the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban were passed. Indeed, many Democrats lost their jobs in 1994 because of their votes on those bills, and the GOP took over Congress, so it strikes me as unlikely that Democrats would want to kick that hornet’s nest again any time soon.
As I’ve said several times when I’ve written about this story, there are legitimate questions about Fast & Furious that deserve an answer. It’s the proper role of Congress to ask those questions and the Administration’s reticence to cooperate fully in that investigation dis-serves the public and only serves to reinforce the notion of some that they have something to hide. At the same time, though, Issa does the investigation no favors by pandering to the conspiracy theorists. As Joe Friday used to say, Congressman, just the facts, that’s all you need to be looking for. The rest is a waste of time.
#835741 Jan 9, 2013
Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.
PICTURES: ATF "Gunwalking" scandal timeline
In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.
ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.
On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:
"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."
More Fast and Furious coverage:
Memos contradict Holder on Fast and Furious
Agent: I was ordered to let guns "walk" into Mexico
Gunwalking scandal uncovered at ATF
On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday...(I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."
This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."
The Gun Dealers' Quandary
Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.
Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.
Read the email
In April, 2010 a licensed gun dealer cooperating with ATF was increasingly concerned about selling so many guns. "We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys," writes the gun dealer to ATF Phoenix officials, "(W)e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items."
Read the email
ATF's group supervisor on Fast and Furious David Voth assures the gun dealer there's nothing to worry about. "We (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into detail."
Two months later, the same gun dealer grew more agitated.
"I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys.
#835742 Jan 9, 2013
What are you a "professor" of anyway? Mendacity, prevarication and obfuscation?
We're not talking about Afghanistan so let's put that aside and address Iraq which was the subject of the post. Congress authorized the use of military force only as a last resort if all other diplomatic measures failed. George W didn't let these other measures run their course forcing UN inspectors to abandon their searches in anticipation of the invasion.
Our actions in Libya were part of a larger NATO operation and was mainly supportive and no American forces were on the ground.
There was never any stand down order given when our ambassador and his staff were being attacked liar. Everything that could be done was done.
Contrary to your inane assertion, national security was not eased up during the Clinton administration but under Bush who downgraded the position of National Coordinator for Counterterrorism Richard Clarke so that his memos had to filter through the White House deputies instead of going directly to the President. The Bush administration did nothing about Al Qaeda until after 9/11 and Republicans ridiculed Clinton for bombing their training sites and accused him of "wagging the dog". But again it's not Afghanistan at issue here.
The nerve gas attacks on the Kurds happened during the Reagan administration moron, and subsequent to the first Gulf War UN inspectors dismantled and destroyed Hussein's production facilities stockpiles. Iraq was under constant surveillance and any attempt to bury or transfer these weapons would have been detected. With an invasion imminent why would he get rid of the weapons that would have raised the price on the invaders? It's not like he had anything to lose at that point.
You're an idiot!
#835744 Jan 9, 2013
There isn't any discussion of minting an official US coin with Obama's picture on it DB, there are so called commemorative coins being minted by private companies and if Romney was elected there would be one with his face on it.
You're a goddamned liar DB; you always have been and always will be.
#835745 Jan 9, 2013
You live under a rock, so you wouldn't know unless it was on one of your leftwing progoganda channels like MSNBC or your leftwing radio Democrat NAZI propoganda channel. Earth to Libtard!
"UPDATE: Suddenly, Lots Of Influential People Are Talking About The Trillion Dollar Coin Idea To Save The Economy"
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/suddenly-lots-...
You are a liar and an ignorant idiot.
#835746 Jan 9, 2013
PROOF Obama's ReElection = ANTICHRIST_______
#835747 Jan 9, 2013
Adding insult to injury, two of Hannity’s rivals on MSNBC, Ed Schultz and Rachel Maddow, held onto huge chunks of their audiences, while at CNN, far less politically polarizing host Anderson Cooper lost almost none of his viewers postelection.
It got even worse for Hannity in the “money demo” of viewers 25-54, who are prized by advertisers.
With this group, Hannity held onto less than half his preelection audience. O’Reilly, on the other hand, kept almost 70%.
And through the early part of December, Maddow actually beat Hannity in the coveted group — a shocking turn, because until the election, Hannity was unassailable by any of his rivals, at least in terms of ratings.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-m...
BOYCOTT ALL GAY BUSINESS unless they are conservatives!Do not tip Gays unless you know they understand!Do not hire any Gay people unless they are conservatives!This message will work!
i think there's more gay conservatives than there are black ones. might be a more suitable demographic to go after. play to your strength and all that.
#835748 Jan 9, 2013
We should mint 17 of them and eliminate all the debt, do you think China would go for it?
If one is minted it should have Boehners mugshot on it.
#835749 Jan 9, 2013
A pair of polls out this week shows the dire state the Republican Party finds itself in — and a way out of the wilderness, should Republicans choose to take it.
Poll No. 1: Rasmussen Reports found that views of the tea party — the wing of Republicanism that dominates party primaries and therefore the congressional Republican caucuses — at a new low. Only 8 percent of likely voters considered themselves tea-party members, down from 24 percent in 2010. According to Rasmussen (which tends to have a pro-Republican bias), unfavorable views of the movement topped favorable views, 49 percent to 30 percent.
Poll No. 2: Fairleigh Dickinson University found that 73 percent of New Jersey voters approved of the job their Republican governor, Chris Christie, is doing — near his all-time high. Even 62 percent of Democrats approve of Christie, as well as 69 percent of racial minorities and 70 percent of women. The top would-be challenger to Christie in November’s gubernatorial election is trailing him by 33 percentage points.
Christie is killing it. see what happens when people don't watch FOX?!
#835750 Jan 9, 2013
Especially with the possible existance(s) of "black holes"!!!!
"Dimensions are cool".:-)
#835751 Jan 9, 2013
Code named the "bankrupt buck" ?
#835752 Jan 9, 2013
CAIRO, Sept. 27 (UPI)-- Osama bin Laden was blinded in his right eye and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood as a youth, al-Qaida's new leader said in an Internet video.
Ayman as-Zawahiri, the terror group's leader after bin Laden was killed by Navy SEALs in a raid in Pakistan in 2010, confirmed bin Laden was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood as a youth in his native Saudi Arabia. He was expelled for insisting members perform jihad against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s,
United Press International. "Bin Laden was once in Muslim Brotherhood." 9/27/2012. UPI Web. 1/9/2013
#835753 Jan 9, 2013
I-T-E-G-R-I-T-Y and E-T-H-I-C-s, For the People, By the People and Of the People, again!
Christie for POTUS 2016!
Since: May 11
#835754 Jan 9, 2013
Evidently you care because you responded.
Actually intelligent people who understand the danger posed by man made global warming care about everyone's carbon footprint.
Dumbasses like you, likely not.
#835755 Jan 9, 2013
Visual scenerio-heads of state exchanging A propagrandious minted coin.
#835756 Jan 9, 2013
(see what happens when people don't watch FOX?!)
#835757 Jan 9, 2013
Nothing wrong with limiting flurocarbons and emmissions type stuff. What's wrong, is when the grubbermint would rather WASTE massive amounts of tax dollars on pie in the sky schemes, rather than appropriate a helping realm in aiding that which has long been proven to work, become even more improved.
Kind of like trying to invent a heat proof cap for volcanoes, if it can't erupt up, it'll erupt out, or down (like the current economy :-)....) so why waste the time and already denigrated resources in doing so.
#835758 Jan 9, 2013
They make typos?
#835759 Jan 9, 2013
Today's meditational affirmative thought:
Books are good. Books are gooduh because, peoples can ru-ead them in peace and quiet, and in privacy!)- with no yellow bellied, gutter-snipe, ignorant type, archaic, crook and hooked, stinky brown noses stuck up their butt-uhs!
Meditational thought of the day lol.
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