Years after flying the O's coop, Phil...

Years after flying the O's coop, Phillies GM still delivering

There are 25 comments on the Baltimore Sun story from Oct 31, 2008, titled Years after flying the O's coop, Phillies GM still delivering. In it, Baltimore Sun reports that:

The champagne-spewing, trophy-holding Philadelphia Phillies buzzed all around the septuagenarian, who patiently answered questions from the media and accepted congratulations from everyone else.

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Joe

Washington, DC

#1 Oct 31, 2008
What was the last line of The Natural?: "Some mistakes you never stop paying for." Great novel.

I remember Gillick wanted to tear down the 96' team at the trade deadline. That was the turning point for the franchise. A playoff run may have never occoured at that time but we would have cycled back to respectability much sooner if he was allowed to rebuild the team properly at that point. Instead, the little General overruled Gillick and he of course wanted the next train out of town and it has taken another ten years for Angelos to realize that he's not actually smarter than the baseball experts. I sometimes wish we had never made the playoffs in 96' that may have crystalized sooner for Angelos the need to stay out of the baseball decisions.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#3 Oct 31, 2008
But he exited in 1998 when his contract expired, leaving behind a swollen payroll, an acrimonious relationship with club owner Peter Angelos and a scuffling franchise that has not sniffed .500 since.
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Dan,

Congrats on being a shill for Peter Angelos. You've actually managed to smear the only GM who took the O's to the playoffs as an employee of said Greek.

I guess going to the playoffs two out of three years CAUSED the team to go into decline, according to your logic. Oh, and you blame Pat Gillick for an "acrimonious" relationship with Angelos. Gee, it seems EVERYONE has that relationship with that pint-sized egomaniac.

Gillick builds winners. Period.

Angelos is a loser.

And your line about "leaving behind a bloated payroll" is just a lie. Angelos signed Albert Belle AFTER Gillick left/was tossed out. The team payroll INCREASED in 1999 and 2000, so how exactly did Gillick leave that behind?

The 1998 team went 79-83. That's the BEST record the team has posted since 1997.

Loser O's fans and writers love to take shots at the best people the organization has seen for decades (Mussina comes to mind) while praising selfish players like BJ Surhoff and Melvin Mora.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#4 Oct 31, 2008
And one more thing, Dan.

If you're going to write stories which are nearly cut and pasted from my message board postings, you should either cite your source or show some respect to good ex-O's.

I did the meat of your homework in a posting last week.
Rich

Cedar Rapids, IA

#5 Oct 31, 2008
Joe wrote:
What was the last line of The Natural?: "Some mistakes you never stop paying for." Great novel.
I remember Gillick wanted to tear down the 96' team at the trade deadline. That was the turning point for the franchise. A playoff run may have never occoured at that time but we would have cycled back to respectability much sooner if he was allowed to rebuild the team properly at that point. Instead, the little General overruled Gillick and he of course wanted the next train out of town and it has taken another ten years for Angelos to realize that he's not actually smarter than the baseball experts. I sometimes wish we had never made the playoffs in 96' that may have crystalized sooner for Angelos the need to stay out of the baseball decisions.
How right you are, Joe. Although '96 and'97 were very exciting years for Oriole's fans, Angelos did stop Gillick from building a long term winning franchaise. So here we are today. The Orioles are as weak and as bad as it gets, but Angelos's pockets are fat.
Chuck

Waukee, IA

#6 Oct 31, 2008
Conratulations to Pat Gillick! You have class and you deserve your success. The midget dictator that runs the Orioles will never be a good owner because losers don't succeed and Angelos is the ultimate loser!
Rich

Cedar Rapids, IA

#7 Oct 31, 2008
Ghost Oriole wrote:
But he exited in 1998 when his contract expired, leaving behind a swollen payroll, an acrimonious relationship with club owner Peter Angelos and a scuffling franchise that has not sniffed .500 since.
----------
Dan,
Congrats on being a shill for Peter Angelos. You've actually managed to smear the only GM who took the O's to the playoffs as an employee of said Greek.
I guess going to the playoffs two out of three years CAUSED the team to go into decline, according to your logic. Oh, and you blame Pat Gillick for an "acrimonious" relationship with Angelos. Gee, it seems EVERYONE has that relationship with that pint-sized egomaniac.
Gillick builds winners. Period.
Angelos is a loser.
And your line about "leaving behind a bloated payroll" is just a lie. Angelos signed Albert Belle AFTER Gillick left/was tossed out. The team payroll INCREASED in 1999 and 2000, so how exactly did Gillick leave that behind?
The 1998 team went 79-83. That's the BEST record the team has posted since 1997.
Loser O's fans and writers love to take shots at the best people the organization has seen for decades (Mussina comes to mind) while praising selfish players like BJ Surhoff and Melvin Mora.
"Being a shill for Angelos". I love it, Ghost. Your either a shill for Angelos or your not around the Oriole franchaise very long. As you know we have lost many a good soldier because of that 5' 1" baseball idiot. I am not sure about the 5' 1", could be less. Certainally in baseball brain power it is less.
Jack Meoff

Towson, MD

#8 Oct 31, 2008
The writer (or his editors) omitted mentioning that this article was screened, amended and approved by Peter "What An Appropriate First Name" Angelos.
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#9 Oct 31, 2008
Wow, the Oriole revisionists are reaching back to 1998 to "blame" someone for today's losing.

Amazing, Dan. Amazing.

And blaming the guy who delivered the only 2 ALCS visits since 1983 was a nice touch.

It's hard to believe that Gillick thought he knew more about baseball than an asbestos attorney who never attends games. After all, what has Gillick ever done in baseball?

Supporting the O's requires being dishonest.
Treadstone

Middle River, MD

#10 Oct 31, 2008
Peter Angelos + Bob Irsay = different sides of the same coin.
fkterp

Loxahatchee, FL

#11 Oct 31, 2008
i'm sure pat gillick is very happy to out of baltimore. gillick, davey johnson and john miller pushed out of b'more.... nice trifecta angelos.
Vance Lee

Akron, OH

#12 Oct 31, 2008
Whatever happened to Mike Flanagan? You never se quotes from him in the SUN?
Ghost Oriole

Southampton, PA

#13 Oct 31, 2008
Vance Lee wrote:
Whatever happened to Mike Flanagan? You never se quotes from him in the SUN?
He passed out big checks to fans who won contests this year.
Mark

Washington, DC

#14 Oct 31, 2008
Other Posters Miss the Point -

To me, kudos to Pat Gillick for helping to build another winner. He did so in Philadelphia as he did in Toronto, here and in Seattle.

The article is not about Angelos, about his ownership record, or about his cadre of bad decisions, including running Gillick out of town. Its about Gillick, period.

I for one wish we had made the deadline trades in '96. Those post-season appearances seems surreal at the time, done with rent-a-players from other organizations.
Mike B

Waynesboro, PA

#15 Oct 31, 2008
ANother brilliant move by the Greek God Angelos! He would not let Gillick do his job and gillick got the heck out of town and you cannot blame him. Anybody who is anybody with baseball savvy, experience at winning or anything else that resembles a winner was run out of this town by Angelos! If anyone thinks it will get any better with McPhail only time will tell, but it will take Angelos to change and why would anyone think that could happen at this stage of his life unleess he just doesn't care anymore or turns the reigns over to someone else!
waspman

Washington, DC

#16 Oct 31, 2008
Gosh, it seems like so long ago. I remember telling people the veto of those trades regardless of how well-intentioned they were, even regardless if that was the right move singularly was going to be the downfall of the Orioles. People who scoffed at my declaration as the playoffs loomed would later praise me for what I thought was a rather pedestrian insight.

After all, if the veto was wrong, it was damaging as unto itself. If the veto was right, it would be justification for more meddling into baseball matters by a non-baseball person. In short, it was the perfect lose-lose situation.

I also remember telling my wife the Orioles may be a playoff team but they are a flawed team. And now (back then) they are exposed as having a flawed owner. I said we would be smarter now (then) to jump ship on the 81-game plan we had and get on board with Ravens (then-Browns) season tickets as that was going to be the hot ticket.

My wife had no interest in football so we staggered through with our O's plan until 2000 when we had gone from anticipation of our next game to dreading on not letting the tickets go to waste when it was our turn. Eventually, no one sharing our plan wanted to go either.

My wife asked during the Phil's celebration, "Is that the same Pat Gillick?" Nothing more was said as my eyes welled up. Those hundreds of yesterdays stopped seeming like a long time ago.
Jake

Sunderland, MD

#17 Oct 31, 2008
Yet another testimony to Peter Angeloser's unparalleled ability to antagonize and alienate baseball talent. What an amazing record of failure and futility.
Richard H

Owings Mills, MD

#18 Oct 31, 2008
Good for Pat. He can work the magic once he doesn't have an owner that meddles in the decisions.

I believe peter really did help keep the team in baltimore, but the guy is just not a baseball guy. His decision making other than gillick, mcphail has been very suspect probably bordering on poor.
oscanada

Toronto, Canada

#19 Oct 31, 2008
Hey let's give Gillick credit-he's been able to assemble winning teams under a variety of situations. At one time, I was somewhat of a cynic about Gillick because the Jays success was largely due to the great scouting, particularily in the Dominican areas. Since then, he has built winners in 3 cities so pretty hard to dispute his credentials.
I really don't see the point of continually debating the O's direction,etc from 10 years ago. I'm sure most of us were happy to see us reach the post-season in '97 even though it may have weakened us for the future. WIth a few breaks that year maybe we win a World Series.
Anyway,the past is the past, we should all look towards the future and I suppose hope that the current regime knows what it is doing. While generally the best approach seems to be build from within, sometimes other alternatives work. Many current contenders are heavily built on free-agents and/or with veteran-laden teams-Dodgers/Cubs. We obviously don't fit that category and like many, I would prefer seeing a team that contends on an annual basis.
NO9108OSFAN

Melville, NY

#20 Oct 31, 2008
this club has stunk since Gillick left. it rates right up there with all the other great moves this club has made in the last ten years. like letting Mike Mussina and Rafael Palmiero go in there primes. And oh,should I forget letting Davey Johnson go right after he won the manager of the year award in 1997. All moves designed to improve the club. Yes sir, we have really improved these past eleven years. Just check the record. Oriole fans take heart. Someday real qualified people will own this club and run it the way it should be. Then the glory days of the Orioles will return. And we all know it's long overdue.
Frank Kush

AOL

#21 Oct 31, 2008
We may have a good year or two in the future but
We will never, ever return to the "Glory Days". No chance, ever.
4 Hall of Famers plus a cadre of real major leaguers who understood the words team and community. As Obama will forever change our nation and set us on a "world view vision', our precious memories of a bygone era will be our only remnant.

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