Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Full story: Newsday 306,359
Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision. Full Story

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#292069 Apr 10, 2013
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>And the original poster linked an article that doesn't use the terms post birth abortion or post birth terminations. The question given to PP was on what should happen to a baby born after a botched abortion.
The OP also said PP "defends the practice of post-birth terminations of babies born due to botched abortions". That is not true.
PP plainly stated "That decision should be between the patient and the health care provider"
PP also said in a written statement that "Medical guidelines and ethics already compel physicians facing life-threatening circumstances to respond, and Planned Parenthood physicians provide high-quality medical care and adhere to the most rigorous professional standards, including providing emergency care," "In the extremely unlikely event that the scenario presented by the panel of legislators should happen, of course Planned Parenthood would provide appropriate care to both the woman and the infant."
The desperation of the fetus worshippers is pathetic.
Katie

Renton, WA

#292071 Apr 10, 2013
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>And the original poster linked an article that doesn't use the terms post birth abortion or post birth terminations. The question given to PP was on what should happen to a baby born after a botched abortion.
The OP also said PP "defends the practice of post-birth terminations of babies born due to botched abortions". That is not true.
PP plainly stated "That decision should be between the patient and the health care provider"
PP also said in a written statement that "Medical guidelines and ethics already compel physicians facing life-threatening circumstances to respond, and Planned Parenthood physicians provide high-quality medical care and adhere to the most rigorous professional standards, including providing emergency care," "In the extremely unlikely event that the scenario presented by the panel of legislators should happen, of course Planned Parenthood would provide appropriate care to both the woman and the infant."
But none of that mesh's with the fundies' desperate claims to the contrary, Ayaka. The "debate" style they use is so dishonest. It's pathetic!

Thanks for providing what was stated.
Katie

Renton, WA

#292072 Apr 10, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Same here, Katie! Despite the anti-choice false claims or implications that all pregnancies are a walk in the park with no health risks or complications during pregnancy or at delivery, many women, myself included, have experienced both.
It's why the ONLY person who makes the decision to continue the pregnancy or not is the WOMAN who is pregnant.
Exactly, Ocean! What do the nosy parkers know about all these strangers' pregnancies anyway? Not a damn thing!! You'd think they want the gov't, the clergy, and other nosy parkers like they are involved in their pregnancies (or their wives', daughters', nieces', etc.).
The Prince

Phillipsburg, NJ

#292073 Apr 10, 2013
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>Typical forum troll behavior @@
Tyocal deflection of guilt from a proabortion pagan.
worships reality

United States

#292075 Apr 10, 2013
Katie wrote:
<quoted text>
Who's hiding?
Not me?
It's also used in the medical sense.
Look it up.(hint: organ donors)
you're funny. do you think the concept or the definition of self defense ( the right to defend one's person or property against a perceived threat ) changes because it may be used in a medical context?

in the case of abortion and the right to terminate a fetus "postviability", that right is, as I said,
Is rooted firmly in the concept of self defense. the previability right to abortion however, is not. and that is what you tried to claim.

read and learn:

http://www.harvardlawreview.org/issues/120/ma...

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#292077 Apr 10, 2013
ANNNDDDDDDDDDD, your definition of self-defense is still irrelevant. Women can use their OWN standards to decide if they wish to take the risks of pregnancy, not yours. In the first trimester, they don't even have to give a reason.
worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
you're funny. do you think the concept or the definition of self defense ( the right to defend one's person or property against a perceived threat ) changes because it may be used in a medical context?
in the case of abortion and the right to terminate a fetus "postviability", that right is, as I said,
Is rooted firmly in the concept of self defense. the previability right to abortion however, is not. and that is what you tried to claim.
read and learn:
http://www.harvardlawreview.org/issues/120/ma...
Katie

Renton, WA

#292079 Apr 10, 2013
worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
you're funny. do you think the concept or the definition of self defense ( the right to defend one's person or property against a perceived threat ) changes because it may be used in a medical context?
in the case of abortion and the right to terminate a fetus "postviability", that right is, as I said,
Is rooted firmly in the concept of self defense. the previability right to abortion however, is not. and that is what you tried to claim.
read and learn:
http://www.harvardlawreview.org/issues/120/ma...
Yes, I've read it. It offers good analogies. You are stating medical self-defense is an either/or concept regarding life of mother (just as the author uses that concept as an analogy). I read the same thing and see it overlapping. Medical self-defense in determining abortion the right choice early on in unwanted/unhealthy pregnancy. In thinking things through making the determination, the woman's thoughts would likely include her health at the end of pregnancy as well throughout, beyond just thinking of delivery and a newborn.

From your link:
"Part II discusses one context in which medical self-defense has already been recognized: Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey secure not just a previability right to abortion as reproductive choice, but also a separate postviability right to abortion as medical self-defense when pregnancy threatens a womanís life. And it canít be that a woman has a constitutional right to protect her life using medical procedures, but only when those procedures kill a viable fetus; given that Alice has a right to defend herself even when doing so means aborting a viable fetus, Ellen and Olivia should have the same right to defend themselves through other medical procedures. Alice is free to have surgery in which a doctor inserts devices into her body to excise a fetus that, tragically, threatens her life. Ellen should likewise be free to have a procedure in which a doctor inserts chemicals into her body to destroy a tumor that threatens her life. And the government should not place substantial obstacles in the way of Oliviaís having a procedure in which a doctor inserts an organ into her body to replace a failing organ that threatens her life."
<SNIP>
"Finally, the Conclusion argues that a right to medical self-defense is not only logically supportable, but also viable both in political debate and in the judicial process. Both liberal and conservative judges and voters may be open to it, and I hope that the analogies in this Essay can be used to help persuade them."
http://www.harvardlawreview.org/issues/120/ma...
worships reality

United States

#292080 Apr 10, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
Why? Here you are, and you've never had a fu**ing clue in your tawdry little life.
Legally, there is no such thing as deadly force against a fetus, as the fetus is not a legal person. A woman--just like a man--can assess a medical condition and whether they wish to treat it or not based on risk factors; she loses no autonomy just because her uterus works.
<quoted text>
a dog isn't a legal person either but there is such a thing as deadly force against a dog you moronic twit you.
we all know what a woman's legal rights currently are. we didn't need you to tell us.
katie was making an 'abortion as self defense' analogy. it failed.
the right to abortion "post viability" is rooted in the concept of self defense as it is allowed when the pregnancy is a medically established threat to the woman's life. the right to abortion previability, absent any such threat, is not rooted in self defense as katie claimed, but rather in the right to privacy.
remember what I said about only weighing in when you know what you're talking about? use it again here, idiot.
Forum

Hobbs, NM

#292081 Apr 10, 2013
worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
you're funny. do you think the concept or the definition of self defense ( the right to defend one's person or property against a perceived threat ) changes because it may be used in a medical context?
in the case of abortion and the right to terminate a fetus "postviability", that right is, as I said,
Is rooted firmly in the concept of self defense. the previability right to abortion however, is not. and that is what you tried to claim.
read and learn:
http://www.harvardlawreview.org/issues/120/ma...
Isn't it obvious that abortion and surgery is evil
made up by nazi germans. We are all so gullable.
We let doctors hurt us. They are full of it.
Bitbybit

Falls City, NE

#292082 Apr 10, 2013

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#292083 Apr 10, 2013
Nope, fucwit, wrong again. You can be charged with cruelty to animals or destruction of property, not "lethal force."

As for the argument, she's still right. RvW was based on privacy AND the womans medical decision--which is private. Even when abortion was illegal, exceptions were made for self-defense, idiot. RvW just took the decision as to risk-assessment from the doctor and gave it to the woman, in the first trimester. Any decision of the woman to bort is based on protecting her life, be it medicaly, economically, or personal plans. No woman has to give up her life--on any level--just because she gets pregnant.
worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
a dog isn't a legal person either but there is such a thing as deadly force against a dog you moronic twit you.
we all know what a woman's legal rights currently are. we didn't need you to tell us.
katie was making an 'abortion as self defense' analogy. it failed.
the right to abortion "post viability" is rooted in the concept of self defense as it is allowed when the pregnancy is a medically established threat to the woman's life. the right to abortion previability, absent any such threat, is not rooted in self defense as katie claimed, but rather in the right to privacy.
remember what I said about only weighing in when you know what you're talking about? use it again here, idiot.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#292084 Apr 10, 2013
It's voluntary. By all means, don't have any life-saving surgery.

BTW--urgery has been performed for millennia.
Forum wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't it obvious that abortion and surgery is evil
made up by nazi germans. We are all so gullable.
We let doctors hurt us. They are full of it.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#292085 Apr 10, 2013
Are alien fetuses sacred too?
Bitbybit wrote:
Anonymous

Twinsburg, OH

#292087 Apr 10, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
Nope, fucwit, wrong again. You can be charged with cruelty to animals or destruction of property, not "lethal force."
As for the argument, she's still right. RvW was based on privacy AND the womans medical decision--which is private. Even when abortion was illegal, exceptions were made for self-defense, idiot. RvW just took the decision as to risk-assessment from the doctor and gave it to the woman, in the first trimester. Any decision of the woman to bort is based on protecting her life, be it medicaly, economically, or personal plans. No woman has to give up her life--on any level--just because she gets pregnant.
<quoted text>
oh quiet down......
Anonymous

Twinsburg, OH

#292088 Apr 10, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
The desperation of the fetus worshippers is pathetic.
"fetus worshipers?" ???

wait, so if your spouse has a baby, say at 6 months in, you wouldnt be put off by people saying to you "Oh stop with your "fetus worship"!

YOU were a fetus once ass..........whats next, "stop with your baby worship, it's not a person until it has personality & can take care of itself!"

idiot
Anonymous

Twinsburg, OH

#292089 Apr 10, 2013
[QUOTE who="cpeter131
3"]Are alien fetuses sacred too?
<quoted text>[/QUOTE]

simmer, please

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#292090 Apr 10, 2013
SeattleVehix44 wrote:
<quoted text>
"fetus worshipers?" ???
wait, so if your spouse has a baby, say at 6 months in, you wouldnt be put off by people saying to you "Oh stop with your "fetus worship"!
YOU were a fetus once ass..........whats next, "stop with your baby worship, it's not a person until it has personality & can take care of itself!"
idiot
Says the idiot who can't remember that I'm a woman.

My spouse is a man. I hate to tell you this, but men can't have get pregnant. Go back to school, Little Boy.

After birth, it's no longer a fetus, Moron.
Anonymous

Twinsburg, OH

#292091 Apr 10, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Says the idiot who can't remember that I'm a woman.
My spouse is a man. I hate to tell you this, but men can't have get pregnant. Go back to school, Little Boy.
After birth, it's no longer a fetus, Moron.
yes, but "fetus" is just one phase of human life, just as babies are one, children, teens, adult, etc.........these are processes of GROWTH in our lives. That's one reason a fetus is a person

but answer my question. You have kids? Would you not get upset if your man felt up on your belly, as your CHILD was kicking (sorry, your FETUS) & someone said, "Oh Bitner, Mr. Bitner, stop with your "FETUS worship""..........w ould that not upset you?

was your FETUS more than just that??

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#292092 Apr 10, 2013
SeattleVehix44 wrote:
<quoted text>
yes, but "fetus" is just one phase of human life, just as babies are one, children, teens, adult, etc.........these are processes of GROWTH in our lives. That's one reason a fetus is a person
but answer my question. You have kids? Would you not get upset if your man felt up on your belly, as your CHILD was kicking (sorry, your FETUS) & someone said, "Oh Bitner, Mr. Bitner, stop with your "FETUS worship""..........w ould that not upset you?
was your FETUS more than just that??
The example you gave is not what I'm talking about when I say fetus worship, so your "point" is moot.

Yes, I have children. I've told you THAT before, too. You obviously suffer from CRS.

They're all adults now, and unlike you they act like it.

When I was pregnant, I used the proper terms, embryo and fetus, depending on gestational age.
worships reality

AOL

#292093 Apr 10, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
That was not the original question. I already answered the original.
i was referring to my original question, which you never answered.
do you want to take a crack at it ? or are you going to turtle like you always do in the face of a difficult question?

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