Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Full story: Newsday

Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision.

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Obskeptic

Birmingham, MI

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#283655
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure you realize that everything on here is a 2 ways street. Foo admitted to being a drug addict in her past and she takes plenty of insults for that bit of personal information. Ocean has been honest about her feelings on motherhood and the PL get on her like a pack of hyenas on an antelope. CD discussed his divorce and has been getting trashed by some PLers on here ever since. And look what happens to Cpeter for being open about his sexuality.
And any PCer on here who has admitted to having an abortion gets bashed repeatedly by self-righteous PLers.
Sounds like one hell of a double-standard to me.
Its a tough crowd on both sides. Some folks play pretty rough for sure. I get mocked for my faith, and I poke back. I can tell you though that I pray for those who have been alone to face that decision, that choice, and felt that killing their child was the only choice. Its a decision you cant change your mind about once its done, and if it gets in your head in a bad way, can take a long time to put away somewhere in your mind so you can deal with it. You never really move on from that even if you tell yourself you have. To go on and have kids and to experience how beautiful and special they are can add to the pain in your soul.

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

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#283656
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Obskeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
Its a tough crowd on both sides. Some folks play pretty rough for sure. I get mocked for my faith, and I poke back. I can tell you though that I pray for those who have been alone to face that decision, that choice, and felt that killing their child was the only choice. Its a decision you cant change your mind about once its done, and if it gets in your head in a bad way, can take a long time to put away somewhere in your mind so you can deal with it. You never really move on from that even if you tell yourself you have. To go on and have kids and to experience how beautiful and special they are can add to the pain in your soul.
I think we all have decisions in our past that are difficult to get over. We try to rewrite our history with "what if" and "if only" thoughts. If you believe in God, and if you believe God creates, then you might think the z/e/f is not really gone forever and that God would find a more suitable situation and the person the z/e/f was meant to be gets another chance.
Katie

Seattle, WA

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#283658
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Obskeptic wrote:
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No, of course I don't want you to cringe and back away from the debate. I want you to defend your position with the passion that you demonstrate, even if i disagree with it. The unfortunate reality of this computer interaction is that it coarsens the debate in way that is very unproductive. The anonymity allows for some to be extra mean, and extra rude. Trust me, defending a conservative opinion opens you up to some of the forums most arrogant,vicious, and I must add, ignorant and juvenile. It's more fun then watching TV for me, and I am not afraid to offer up my opinion. Like on abortion Katie. I think its killing a baby. My wife and I have two children. The first, my daughter, was not planned, we were not married. Its 26 years later and I have a beautiful daughter that loves us, and thats how it worked out for me. No regrets.
Great. But your experience is not every woman's experience. Are you wanting to be every woman? There are some here who base their arguments on their myopic little world as if nothing ever happened to anyone that didn't happen to them first. Are you that way, too?

I have daughters. And granddaughters.
Katie

Seattle, WA

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#283659
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Obskeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
Its a tough crowd on both sides. Some folks play pretty rough for sure. I get mocked for my faith, and I poke back. I can tell you though that I pray for those who have been alone to face that decision, that choice, and felt that killing their child was the only choice. Its a decision you cant change your mind about once its done, and if it gets in your head in a bad way, can take a long time to put away somewhere in your mind so you can deal with it. You never really move on from that even if you tell yourself you have. To go on and have kids and to experience how beautiful and special they are can add to the pain in your soul.
Have you had an abortion? Do you really know what it's like? What pregnancy is like? What a high-risk pregnancy is like? A miscarriage? I mean a man can empathize to a point. But only to a point. Even the old Bill Cosby claim of pulling your lower lip over your head doesn't *really* explain it.
Katie

Seattle, WA

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#283660
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think we all have decisions in our past that are difficult to get over. We try to rewrite our history with "what if" and "if only" thoughts. If you believe in God, and if you believe God creates, then you might think the z/e/f is not really gone forever and that God would find a more suitable situation and the person the z/e/f was meant to be gets another chance.
That's a nice a sentiment, LNM.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

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#283661
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Obskeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
No, of course I don't want you to cringe and back away from the debate. I want you to defend your position with the passion that you demonstrate, even if i disagree with it. The unfortunate reality of this computer interaction is that it coarsens the debate in way that is very unproductive. The anonymity allows for some to be extra mean, and extra rude. Trust me, defending a conservative opinion opens you up to some of the forums most arrogant,vicious, and I must add, ignorant and juvenile. It's more fun then watching TV for me, and I am not afraid to offer up my opinion. Like on abortion Katie. I think its killing a baby. My wife and I have two children. The first, my daughter, was not planned, we were not married. Its 26 years later and I have a beautiful daughter that loves us, and thats how it worked out for me. No regrets.
I have a son that I have never regretted having. He is my pride and joy. I had an abortion that I never regretted having, also. It's not a source of pride, of course, but it isn't one of shame, either. We women do what is the right thing for each of us.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

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#283662
Feb 12, 2013
 
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
Getting ready to resign.
Clever, but snide. Funny!
feces for jesus

Bellmore, NY

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#283663
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Gtown71 wrote:
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They can read mine, so they can read yours. Lol
I believe it does matter what you think of aborting a viable fetus.
I'm not out to take away anyones rights, but I don't believe aborting an otherwise healthy baby,just becouse, is not right and shouldn't be a right.
Scott Peterson thought he has a right, to live a selfish life,AFTER his wife was with child.
He must live with his choice, as do we all.
As far as his kid was concerned, I see no difference in what he did, and what a doctor does to an otherwise healthy unborn baby.
You don't or can't grasp that 1 in 4-5 pregnancies does not result in a live birth. I guess your God gets a free pass from you wacko, judgemental fundies when he decides to snuff a potential life out.
Guppy

Rotonda West, FL

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#283664
Feb 12, 2013
 
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
Getting ready to resign.
Oh?

I'll miss him.
Katie

Seattle, WA

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#283666
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Forum wrote:
<quoted text>
Aren't doctors and nurses just a joke. I am sure my grandmother
had her twelve babies at home without a doctor cutting her
or putting chemicals in her. These men just enjoy hurting women.
No one knows how they hurt our babies. God knows.
The irony in your post obviously escapes you because you do not know the history of abortion in America. Obviously.

Did you know it was physicians who wanted abortion criminalized in the 1800s, out of the hands of midwives and others knowledgeable with female issues?

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

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#283668
Feb 12, 2013
 
Oooohh...Snap!
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
Getting ready to resign.
Anonymous

United States

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#283669
Feb 12, 2013
 

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feces for jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't or can't grasp that 1 in 4-5 pregnancies does not result in a live birth. I guess your God gets a free pass from you wacko, judgemental fundies when he decides to snuff a potential life out.
No we cuss at Him to, since we know every child that dies before birth is His doings.
I'm sorry my questions like "do you consider aborting a viable fetus as murder? "Bother you.

Between all the pro choicers and God, we good upright sinless folks don't have much of a chance.:)
Anonymous

United States

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#283670
Feb 12, 2013
 

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feces for jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't or can't grasp that 1 in 4-5 pregnancies does not result in a live birth. I guess your God gets a free pass from you wacko, judgemental fundies when he decides to snuff a potential life out.
I have one even better, since 100% of people die, why not just appoint a gov branch, that sweeps through the US, weeding out all who don't live up to a certain standard? We could eliminate all handicap people, old people, plus people who are not built the way the group so chooses? Plus they should let me head the whole thing up being blameless. The good news is, the older and more out of shape I get "if possible ",the higher the age, and lower the standard I would use. Think of all the pretty people in the world, and not having to deal with poor folks. Heaven on earth, don't you think feces? Of course your name would need to change, it just wouldn't fit in our new world order. ;)
STO

Vallejo, CA

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#283671
Feb 12, 2013
 

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lil Lily wrote:
Katie: "To read Doc's posts (i won't even bother with yours), one would think a physician would determine fetus may have 50% chance or better at exchanging gases on its own, birth it prior to its due date, put it on ALS, and there will always be a happy ending. What Doc doesn't or won't take into consideration is that if the newborn doesn't survive, even will all it seemed to have going for it, then it wasn't viable."
You only see it that way because you haven't the foggiest idea what viability of a fetus is about, or what a viable FETUS is.
It's about the POTENTIAL a fetus has to survive outside of the womb, not about definite survival. It's about the chances a fetus has to survive outside of the womb, even with ALS. With regard to the abortion issue, viability is determined BEFORE birth. A fetus is considered viable or not BEFORE birth.
Your viewpoint and arguments are about once born. Epic fail.
Your ability to understand what a viable FETUS is, as well as understanding this is all in reference to the abortion issue, so viability of a fetus isn't something that needs to be "reached" AFTER being born, is also an epic fail. Sense would tell you that once born, it's not a fetus, it's a newborn infant. The abortion issue isn't about newborn infants. Sense fails you every time, because you don't have any.
" A fetus is considered viable or not BEFORE birth."

"viability of a fetus isn't something that needs to be "reached" AFTER being born"

Doc and I discussed this a while back. I offered a hypothetical "artificial womb", as a future medical technology.

Given the hypothetical...

My understanding is that every fetus would be considered "viable", as soon as it developed from embryo to fetus, rendering no need to make that determination before birth.

I think that is ridiculous because essentially the word "viable" becomes meaningless in the scheme of current debate.

Tho, it fits the definition.

The fetus absolutely would not be considered viable without this ALS (artifical womb), and even with this ALS it would not meet what we consider viable, today ( a womb is a womb is a womb).

Does that help?

(I know, I know .. ad homs, right?)

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

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#283672
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Gtown71 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have one even better, since 100% of people die, why not just appoint a gov branch, that sweeps through the US, weeding out all who don't live up to a certain standard? We could eliminate all handicap people, old people, plus people who are not built the way the group so chooses? Plus they should let me head the whole thing up being blameless. The good news is, the older and more out of shape I get "if possible ",the higher the age, and lower the standard I would use. Think of all the pretty people in the world, and not having to deal with poor folks. Heaven on earth, don't you think feces? Of course your name would need to change, it just wouldn't fit in our new world order. ;)
Great science fiction idea but it has nothing to do with abortion and the reasons women choose it.
STO

Vallejo, CA

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#283673
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Obskeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
No, of course I don't want you to cringe and back away from the debate. I want you to defend your position with the passion that you demonstrate, even if i disagree with it. The unfortunate reality of this computer interaction is that it coarsens the debate in way that is very unproductive. The anonymity allows for some to be extra mean, and extra rude. Trust me, defending a conservative opinion opens you up to some of the forums most arrogant,vicious, and I must add, ignorant and juvenile. It's more fun then watching TV for me, and I am not afraid to offer up my opinion. Like on abortion Katie. I think its killing a baby. My wife and I have two children. The first, my daughter, was not planned, we were not married. Its 26 years later and I have a beautiful daughter that loves us, and thats how it worked out for me. No regrets.
Do you believe disposing of a frozen embryo is also "killing a baby"?
feces for jesus

Bellmore, NY

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#283674
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Gtown71 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have one even better, since 100% of people die, why not just appoint a gov branch, that sweeps through the US, weeding out all who don't live up to a certain standard? We could eliminate all handicap people, old people, plus people who are not built the way the group so chooses? Plus they should let me head the whole thing up being blameless. The good news is, the older and more out of shape I get "if possible ",the higher the age, and lower the standard I would use. Think of all the pretty people in the world, and not having to deal with poor folks. Heaven on earth, don't you think feces? Of course your name would need to change, it just wouldn't fit in our new world order. ;)
My name is an excellent song. I'm sure you've heard it.

Continue on with your empty judgements.
STO

Vallejo, CA

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#283675
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Gtown71 wrote:
<quoted text>
No we cuss at Him to, since we know every child that dies before birth is His doings.
I'm sorry my questions like "do you consider aborting a viable fetus as murder? "Bother you.
Between all the pro choicers and God, we good upright sinless folks don't have much of a chance.:)
"No we cuss at Him to, since we know every child that dies before birth is His doings."

His doings? Cuss at Him?
The Prince

Phillipsburg, NJ

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#283676
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh PLEASE. You're just another militant religionist who is mad that you can't FORCE your toxic beliefs on public school students and on the American population in general. Too bad.
If you're so unhappy with the FREEDOM women now have in America, then move to an extremist religious country. You know, like Afghanistan or Iran, a country where women have NO freedom whatsoever. You'd probably fit right in over there.
Please list all the reasons motherhood and pregnancy are bad. I don't think people really understand it like you do.
The Prince

Phillipsburg, NJ

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#283677
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Katie wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember the talk of the 50% gas exchange? That's already a protocol in determining viability. If physicians think the fetus has not reached the 50% mark, it will be determined nonviable.
With that said, you do know scientists are tweaking artificial surfactant, yes? So in that sense, all that you say above *could* open the door for the courts to determine when viability is rather than the physicians. Fifty percent won't matter because they can use this new-fangled ALS and inject artificial surfactant to bring the newborn to viability.
I brought this up to you before, but you and glossed (misunderstood, ignored, poked fun of, or myriad other options) right over it.
Do you see this Doc? Or are you going to start flinging ad homs like monkeys fling sh*t?
This has always been the problem with the probrotion pagan view of abortion. You can't get past viablity. Like the flawed Supreme
Court decision that hinges on "viability", your definition of what is viable, hinges on this "50%" number.

The problmen is, what defines the 50%, how can you be sure you are not killing a viable unobrn child. Could we say that you have no real idea of when viability actually occurs because you have no real clear delfintion of what viabilty means. All of you proabort pagans have different definitions depending on how aggressively proabortion you are.

There is a national law being proposwed that would ban all third trimester abortions unless the mothers life is threatened by the pregnancy. Two doctors would have to agree. Since you put so much stock in "the law". Would you support this law if passed. I am sure that you would.

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