Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Full story: Newsday 306,263
Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision. Full Story
Ocean56

AOL

#274551 Jan 5, 2013
Gtown71 wrote:
You make a good argument for why "most " women have abortions, they are selfish, and don't want to share the life, or give up any of "their " life for anyone./
And you're just pissed that you can't force ANY woman to get/stay pregnant, give birth, and be a mother. Too bleeping bad, pal. You don't get to make sexual and reproductive choices for anyone but yourself.

Personally, I believe a lot of girls/women never think for a second about the very real HARDSHIPS of motherhood, and some are actively DIScouraged from doing so. I've actually read lines like "if you think TOO much, you'll never have kids" or words to that effect, from posters on other boards. The appropriate response to such a statement is, "and a person deciding NOT to have kids would be a bad thing...WHY, exactly?"

When a woman has one or more children because she truly loves and wants kids, despite all the hardships and challenges motherhood brings, that's a good reason. When a woman has children because she is PRESSURED into doing so by family members and/or religious community, even if she may have been undecided or unwilling to have them but caved to the pressure, that's NOT a good reason.

Yes, there's a 50% chance she MAY "fall in love with the child" later on, but there's also the 50% chance she may NOT, and the results in the latter case could be tragic. My feeling has always been that if a girl/woman has ANY doubts about motherhood, then DON'T do it. It's too important a decision to "roll the dice" about, and as I said, the choice NOT to be a mother is just as valid and responsible as the choice to be one.
Ocean56

AOL

#274552 Jan 5, 2013
If girls and women think school or work is hard now, they should know that becoming a mother will be ten times harder. Many mothers and grandmothers don’t tell young girls and women in their family exactly how hard motherhood truly is, for reasons known only to them. I strongly disagree with the practice of keeping girls in ignorance of this. I believe they NEED to know what being a mother will require of them, so they can make an INFORMED decision about being a mother, even if it means some girls will decide not to be mothers at any point in their lives. That is just fine if some don't want to be mothers. Not all girls or women are suited to be moms, and choosing NOT to be a mother is just as valid as the choice to be one.

Some of the hardships mothers of all ages will face once a baby arrives include -- but are not limited to -- the following:

1. Loss of freedom
2. Loss of sleep
3. Loss of money
4. Loss of Education and Job/Career Opportunities
5. Loss of Mobility
6. Loss of Private Time
7. Dealing with colic

There is no escaping the fact that becoming a mother makes a girl’s/woman's life much HARDER and she loses most, if not all, of the benefits and comforts she had before she got pregnant. Too many girls/women are PRESSURED into having children by family members and/or religious community, and purposely aren't told just how very hard motherhood is until AFTER they have had a baby. I think it is high time that changed. If some girls/women decide they don't want the hardships of motherhood, that is fine. The choice for a woman to be childfree is just as valid and respectable as the choice to be a mother.
Ocean56

AOL

#274554 Jan 5, 2013
HARDSHIP #1 - LOSS OF FREEDOM - Having a baby really does change everything, including the freedom that girls and women used to have in abundance. Once the baby arrives, that freedom will be gone, for at least the next five or six years and possibly longer. Teen girls and young women who become moms can forget about going out with friends, whether to the movies, to hang out at their favorite restaurant or coffee shop, or anywhere else for that matter. If they do go out, they’ll have to take the baby with them if their parents refuse to babysit. If the baby is sick or very cranky for any number of reasons, girls will end up staying home instead of going out. Girls who are still in middle or high school will find it much harder to do their homework assignments or study for exams when they have to care for a baby as well. It will be a very long time before girls get any of their former freedom back.

HARDSHIP #2: LOSS OF SLEEP - The first thing girls and women have to know about motherhood is that newborn babies do NOT sleep eight hours a night. All mothers, myself included, can honestly say that babies can – and do – wake up during the night as many as two or three times. Each time the baby wakes up, mom has to get up with the baby, feed the baby, change the baby’s diaper (which could be a messy one), and then get the baby back to sleep. When my son was a newborn baby, there were nights where I got NO sleep whatsoever. Luckily for me, I had completed high school and post-high school education long before that, so I didn’t have to get up at 5:00am to go to school after having almost no sleep. Those who are teen moms will not be so lucky.

HARDSHIP #3: LOSS OF MONEY - Whatever money a girl/woman used to spend on herself will have to be spent on the baby, and that cost is far more than most girls could begin to anticipate. These costs include diapers, food, clothing, baby equipment (car seat, crib, stroller, baby carriers, baby and child toys, etc.) and so much more. Anyone who wants to do the math can begin their research by going to their local grocery store and checking out the baby food and diaper sections. Just make sure you have a notebook and calculator, because you will need to multiply those costs for each item several times per week. That’s just for food and diapers, you haven’t even started on the costs for clothing, baby equipment and toys. That will add a staggering amount to your calculations, and the sum will be far higher than you could imagine. If you plan to put the baby in day care for any amount of time during the week, you will have to add up those costs too. Get the picture now? Having a baby costs a HUGE amount of money, which many girls and young women simply do not have, unless they have wealthy parents.
Ocean56

AOL

#274555 Jan 5, 2013
HARDSHIP #4: LOSS OF EDUCATION AND JOB/CAREER OPPORTUNITIES - As hard as it is to acknowledge, a working mother of any age cannot have the same kind of freedom, flexibility or mobility as a woman without children has. If a girl cannot complete high school due to the demands of motherhood, she will not be able to go to college or vocational school, as both typically require a high school diploma first. That automatically limits her ability to find good employment, and she may well have to settle for a minimum wage job, which pays far less than what is needed to raise a child comfortably. Girls and women who complete high school may find that many jobs require a college degree or vocational school certificate, and without those, she may still not be able to get a job that pays a decent salary. A high school diploma alone is no guarantee of good employment, but all girls need one if they hope to advance to higher levels of education that their chosen job or career requires.

HARDSHIP #5: LOSS OF MOBILITY – Those who don’t have children have a rather naďve idea that parents can just as easily take a baby with them whenever they go out. They are half right. Yes, parents can take a baby out with them, but it is far from easy. Even going to the grocery store with a baby can be a huge hassle. First they have to get the baby dressed, which can be difficult when the little one is happy being home and doesn’t want to be dressed to go out. After getting baby dressed, which can take much longer than mom expected, mom then has to put baby into the car seat, get baby out of the car seat when she arrives at the store, then carry baby around until she can find a cart with an infant carrier. Most grocery stores have very few of those, as I personally discovered long ago. Some may not have any. Going to a restaurant with a baby can also be very stressful, especially if baby suddenly begins crying or screaming for unknown reasons. Mothers who walk into restaurants with screaming or crying babies will find themselves the object of hostile stares, which usually last until they finally have to leave.
Ocean56

AOL

#274557 Jan 5, 2013
HARDSHIP #6: LOSS OF PRIVATE TIME – When a baby arrives, a mom will quickly find that she doesn’t have privacy any more. If she used to read books for hours with few or no interruptions, that will no longer be an option for her. If she is a teen mom who needs quiet time to complete her homework assignments or study for important final exams, that won’t be possible either. A baby will demand her attention many times during the day, so she won’t have private time for doing the things she enjoys or needs to complete.

HARDSHIP #7: DEALING WITH COLIC – For girls/women who are unaware, colic is a long period of crying, screaming and shrieking that can last for many hours a day, and even all night. It can begin when the baby is as young as three weeks old, and it can go on until the baby is five months old. My son had colic for almost two months as an infant. For me, it seemed more like two years. During that time, the crying usually began in the early evening and would last until past midnight. I would walk around the small apartment, carrying him in my arms, for hours trying to comfort him, but nothing I did really worked. He wouldn’t eat, and he most certainly didn’t sleep, and I was a wreck as a result. Being deprived of sleep, with a colicky baby on top of that, can really feel like torture for a mom after a while. I was no exception.

IMO girls and women really DO need to think about these and other hardships of motherhood, so they can make an INFORMED decision about it rather than making this choice in ignorance of the facts.
Gtown71

United States

#274560 Jan 5, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Only if she WANTS to to "give up some of herself for her baby." If she doesn't want to stay pregnant, give birth, or be a mother, that's HER choice, not yours to make for her.
Motherhood is OPTIONAL, not required, even if a pregnancy happens, and a woman can REJECT motherhood if she doesn't want the hardships and responsibilities it involves. Contrary to what you and other regressive religionists believe, there's NOTHING wrong with women or men who don't want children. Women who don't like or want children are making the wise and responsible decision not to have them. Women have the same right NOT to have children as they do to be mothers.
Believe it or not, I agree 100% with both your post!

I do think it is better for "women " today then ever.

I do agree, if women don't want, or cannot afford kids they are making a good, and responsible decision.
What most pro life people are so upset with, is the fact that they wish the women would make this desicion, before she gets to be with child, but regaurdless you are still 100% correct, on how we live in a country that allows a woman to choose "whether or not, if she wants to be a mother". I geuss, what I meant to ask, was is it better for the families of america?

A woman is just as important to a marriage, as a man, and when it comes to families, the woman is prob more important, then anyone in the unit.
I geuss I'm trying to point out to you, that if a man is doing his job within the marriage, then the woman "if she is a good wife ",will be overly happy to stay with him, and her kids, if she's not a very good wife or mother, then in this day and age, she may leave them all, and just go do her thing.

When it comes to running a family, the someone must be the "head "-I know it bothers you to hear how God made man, the head of the house.
I pray something like this doesn't keep you away from God.

If the woman has ideas on certain tbings, if they are the best idea, then a smart man will go with that.
Yet, if tbere is no head, it will not live long.
Kinda like a snake.
I can tell you use your voice for women, and I think it is great.
I'm equaly glad to here voice for families.

“Never give up”

Since: Dec 12

North Olmsted, OH

#274562 Jan 5, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
...
IMO girls and women really DO need to think about these and other hardships of motherhood, so they can make an INFORMED decision about it rather than making this choice in ignorance of the facts.
So, you don't want any girl/women to suffer any kind of hardship in life, huh?

Men often tell other men, when life gets tough or when they face some kind of hardship in life, to 'man up'. If he's a real man, he won't run from a challenge and most often he becomes a better man.

I wish all women had this built-in male trait, then they would be willing to face whatever hardships of life throws at them.

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#274563 Jan 5, 2013
Doc Degall wrote:
<quoted text>
Your sarcasm is unwarranted and misplaced. Why would they even care since right now they have the right to kill even without such a threat ?
The guy asked me a hypothetical question. I answered. Butt out.
Oh Doc, don't get your balls in an uproar.

"Butt out"

Homophobe.

;)
Gtown71

United States

#274565 Jan 5, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
And you're just pissed that you can't force ANY woman to get/stay pregnant, give birth, and be a mother. Too bleeping bad, pal. You don't get to make sexual and reproductive choices for anyone but yourself.
Personally, I believe a lot of girls/women never think for a second about the very real HARDSHIPS of motherhood, and some are actively DIScouraged from doing so. I've actually read lines like "if you think TOO much, you'll never have kids" or words to that effect, from posters on other boards. The appropriate response to such a statement is, "and a person deciding NOT to have kids would be a bad thing...WHY, exactly?"
When a woman has one or more children because she truly loves and wants kids, despite all the hardships and challenges motherhood brings, that's a good reason. When a woman has children because she is PRESSURED into doing so by family members and/or religious community, even if she may have been undecided or unwilling to have them but caved to the pressure, that's NOT a good reason.
Yes, there's a 50% chance she MAY "fall in love with the child" later on, but there's also the 50% chance she may NOT, and the results in the latter case could be tragic. My feeling has always been that if a girl/woman has ANY doubts about motherhood, then DON'T do it. It's too important a decision to "roll the dice" about, and as I said, the choice NOT to be a mother is just as valid and responsible as the choice to be one.
Again when I say things like the woman is selfish, I'm talking after sg
She is already with child. I agree gitls @women that are not sure, should be, and I agree, that it is just as responsible for a woman to not to have a child.
The problem is, why are these women not making theses decisions before the become with child?
I know you are going to say tough /suck it up.
This is america 2013
I agree, that women can choose to have her child's heart stopped, and the baby killed.
Now since you are correct, about girls being told that parenting is fun, and easy, should be told the truth.
My wife and I have a 5 year old girl, and I tutned 42 yesterday.
I was exhausted when she was born! Lol
no one told me either.

The truth is raising kids are tough, but it has alot of rewards.
Having an abortion, is stopping that process, does free the woman fromany further responsibilities. Here on earth atleast, but they should eaqualy be told the truth, about how some women have had regrets.
So yes -I believe in telling them the truth.
I and many believe the time to choose, whether or not the women want to be a mother stops when she becomes with child.
I realize you disagree with that, but I geuss that's why so many are upset.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#274566 Jan 5, 2013
The difference is that judaism doesn't push its opinions on non-jews. You don't see jewish groups yelling hateful things at women going into clinics, or shooting or bombing medical personnel. They don't demand laws outlawing legal, safe abortion.

Even among its own members, there is no rancor towards women who act on their own conscience.
Tom Tom wrote:
<quoted text>
"even if our religion does not approve of it as a means of casually terminating potential life. Judaism may not endorse elective abortion, per se,..."
Or in honest real words, it soes not promote abortion on demand, which means it limits a womans choice, soemthing you and fofud have been denying for weeks.
The pedals going backwards are going faster and faster.
Either you enodrse a woman's right to her choice when she wants to freely exercise her choice of an abortion for any reason, or you don't. If you do, then don't use the Blessed Faith of Judaism to support your hedonistic proabortion pagan stance.
You and fud got busted.
Ingenita levitas et erudita vanitas

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#274567 Jan 5, 2013
I personally don't give a damn about viability; if it's in the woman's body and she wants it out, it goes. Very few women wait until the third trimester to abort electively--it's far more expensive, and the risks become as high as childbirth.
Tom Tom wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither you or anyone else has been able to defend or definitively expalin "vbiability". For you proabort pagans the isssue was put to bed like a ten dollar whore but not for the rest of we rational folk.
You pagans use it as a crutch but it is a crutch made of pseudo-science.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#274568 Jan 5, 2013
Chuckles, I told you I didn't see your post. What was your question?
Tom Tom wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude what a bout the but plug. You are dragging your feet.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#274569 Jan 5, 2013
Built-in male trait? That explains all those deadbeat dads out there, huh?

Women can decide whether to remain pregnant or not. Facing "hardship" when you don't have any reason to is called masochism.
BraveCon wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you don't want any girl/women to suffer any kind of hardship in life, huh?
Men often tell other men, when life gets tough or when they face some kind of hardship in life, to 'man up'. If he's a real man, he won't run from a challenge and most often he becomes a better man.
I wish all women had this built-in male trait, then they would be willing to face whatever hardships of life throws at them.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#274570 Jan 5, 2013
BraveCon wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you don't want any girl/women to suffer any kind of hardship in life, huh?
Men often tell other men, when life gets tough or when they face some kind of hardship in life, to 'man up'. If he's a real man, he won't run from a challenge and most often he becomes a better man.
I wish all women had this built-in male trait, then they would be willing to face whatever hardships of life throws at them.
What a misogynistic asshat you are, BS.

Women do accept hardships, when the goal is worth it to us. When it's not, what would be the point? And there is not a damned thing wrong with letting young women know what those hardships are, especially with people like you, who want to pretend to them that it's all sweetness and light.

Easy to say "man up" when you have no idea what a woman goes through. And no, not even being there with your wife will tell you that.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#274571 Jan 5, 2013
Tom Tom wrote:
<quoted text>
"even if our religion does not approve of it as a means of casually terminating potential life. Judaism may not endorse elective abortion, per se,..."
Or in honest real words, it soes not promote abortion on demand, which means it limits a womans choice, soemthing you and fofud have been denying for weeks.
The pedals going backwards are going faster and faster.
Judaism does NOT limit women's freedom of choice.

There's no backtracking here. THESE are "real honest words":

Pay attention to the last line of the offical view of the American Jewish Congress.

Judaism affirms that nascent life has great value.
But it is not the only value.
In the face of the kind of desperation that drives women to risk their
lives and mutilate their bodies rather than carry the fetus to term, no one
has the right to say that other conflicting values do not exist.
When faced with such conflicting values, individuals should be able
to turn to their own moral traditions or religious faith for guidance.
Government has no business preempting that very personal process,
leaving women trapped without a choice.
We do not propose that a particular religious view of abortion find
expression in legislation. That would be violating someone else's religious
freedom. And many people's moral choices regarding abortion are deeply
personal, and not determined by any particular religious tradition.
In the face of such great moral and religious diversity, the proper role
of government in a free society is to allow different traditions to advocate
their respective views, and to leave the decision to the woman, answering
to God and to her conscience.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#274572 Jan 5, 2013
Tom Tom wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude what a bout the but plug. You are dragging your feet.
Are you jealous Tommy? If you want one so badly, I'm sure you can find one at your local sex shop. I'm sure you know where they are in your town after all.
Gtown71

United States

#274573 Jan 5, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
HARDSHIP #6: LOSS OF PRIVATE TIME – When a baby arrives, a mom will quickly find that she doesn’t have privacy any more. If she used to read books for hours with few or no interruptions, that will no longer be an option for her. If she is a teen mom who needs quiet time to complete her homework assignments or study for important final exams, that won’t be possible either. A baby will demand her attention many times during the day, so she won’t have private time for doing the things she enjoys or needs to complete.
HARDSHIP #7: DEALING WITH COLIC – For girls/women who are unaware, colic is a long period of crying, screaming and shrieking that can last for many hours a day, and even all night. It can begin when the baby is as young as three weeks old, and it can go on until the baby is five months old. My son had colic for almost two months as an infant. For me, it seemed more like two years. During that time, the crying usually began in the early evening and would last until past midnight. I would walk around the small apartment, carrying him in my arms, for hours trying to comfort him, but nothing I did really worked. He wouldn’t eat, and he most certainly didn’t sleep, and I was a wreck as a result. Being deprived of sleep, with a colicky baby on top of that, can really feel like torture for a mom after a while. I was no exception.
IMO girls and women really DO need to think about these and other hardships of motherhood, so they can make an INFORMED decision about it rather than making this choice in ignorance of the facts.
Yes they have to give up alot, and need to think about "or be informed "BEFORE they get pregnant.
What do these women do later in life, when the coffee house, and movies are not so appealing?
you must give to up, to truly give anything.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#274574 Jan 5, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
The difference is that judaism doesn't push its opinions on non-jews. You don't see jewish groups yelling hateful things at women going into clinics, or shooting or bombing medical personnel. They don't demand laws outlawing legal, safe abortion.
Even among its own members, there is no rancor towards women who act on their own conscience.
<quoted text>
Exactly. You wont see many, if ANY, Jews ever protesting at women's health clinics, and you will NEVER see them harrassing women as so many fundi's do.

The Jewish faith isn't concerned with sticking its nose in other faith's affairs, nor in legislating religious views.

You will NEVER see condemnation by a Jewish person toward ANYONE of ANY faith, including their own, if someone DOES make the choice to abort. It simply doesnt work that way.

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#274575 Jan 5, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
What a misogynistic asshat you are, BS.
Women do accept hardships, when the goal is worth it to us. When it's not, what would be the point? And there is not a damned thing wrong with letting young women know what those hardships are, especially with people like you, who want to pretend to them that it's all sweetness and light.
Easy to say "man up" when you have no idea what a woman goes through. And no, not even being there with your wife will tell you that.
What he wrote was foolish. Women have endured hardships, many of them imposed by oppressive men, for centuries. Women have been the ones who have endured pregnancy and labor since the beginning of humanity. When men lay bleeding and dying on battlefields from wars of their own making who rose to the hardship of caring for them? Women, of course.

"Brave" forgets that before women were made the domestics of the 50s they were in the factories working the men's jobs during the war. Before that they worked their farm fields alongside the men when it was necessary to their lively-hood.

All through history women have steped up to do whatever it takes when they're needed.

Women now voluntarily go to war and fight for the freedom for ALL our citizens, but apparently we are not supposed to enjoy that freedom ourselves.

What else do dinosaurs like "Brave" want from us? To wash their shorts and cook their grub and bear their children and primp their egos and then go scrub their toilets, and then spread for them on demand??

They want a mommy and a maid and a wh@re all rolled into one package known as the wife of the 50s era.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#274576 Jan 5, 2013
LiIrabbitfoofoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. You wont see many, if ANY, Jews ever protesting at women's health clinics, and you will NEVER see them harrassing women as so many fundi's do.
The Jewish faith isn't concerned with sticking its nose in other faith's affairs, nor in legislating religious views.
You will NEVER see condemnation by a Jewish person toward ANYONE of ANY faith, including their own, if someone DOES make the choice to abort. It simply doesnt work that way.
And that is something they simply are incapable of understanding.

Personally, I think it stems from an inferiority complex that requires everyone in agreement in order to validate their own beliefs.

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