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“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#268770 Dec 6, 2012
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text> Reading comprehension has nothing to do with the fact that you have referred to me as a bonehead in previous posts related to the same subject.
<quoted text>Your argument back then was:#221297
lil Lily wrote:
How about the fact that a D&C for a miscarriage is NOT "an abortion" like pro-choicers claimed it was, and that too was refuted by pro-lifers with facts, and all pro-choicers did in the face of facts was impotently try to deny the facts. lol
For which Foo replied:
"Nobody claimed it was Lynne. The FACT is a D&C FOR an abortion is the EXACT SAME PROCEDURE as a D&C for ANY other purpose".
If no one said it was an abortion what exactly is there to refute?
<quoted text>
You said nothing about charting, coding or or anything of that nature until Elise brought it up:
elise in burque wrote:#221323
<quoted text>Medically, they are often referred to as abortions because the procedure and purpose is the same, medically. Whatever you have read online doesn't address what individual physicians write in their notes. It's all the same thing whether you like it or not. You are anti-choice, therefore you don't accept that. Sorry.
You replied:
Prove D&C's used after miscarriages "Medically, they are often referred to as abortions", Elise. See, now that's a claim, not a question. Prove your claim.
Now you're saying you knew it all along but you continued to argue with me about the same thing back in October.
<quoted text>Yes it is because you cannot express yourself intelligently nor can you remember what you argue about.
"Reading comprehension has nothing to do with the fact that you have referred to me as a bonehead in previous posts related to the same subject."

Yet, when you mentioned me calling you "bonehead", it was in reply to a post in which I called you "Clueless".

You quote my post and Foo's reply to it,
~lil Lily wrote:
How about the fact that a D&C for a miscarriage is NOT "an abortion" like pro-choicers claimed it was, and that too was refuted by pro-lifers with facts, and all pro-choicers did in the face of facts was impotently try to deny the facts. lol
For which Foo replied:
"Nobody claimed it was Lynne. The FACT is a D&C FOR an abortion is the EXACT SAME PROCEDURE as a D&C for ANY other purpose".~

You then ask, "If no one said it was an abortion what exactly is there to refute?"

I've already proven with the posts, post numbers and links to the posts of the pro-choicers who did in fact call a D&C after a miscarriage "an abortion". You're a reall fool to go only by what a proven pathological liar like Foo posts, which is what you did and I already proved she lied in saying that. You don't pay attention to anyone but pro-choicers, and you won't have a factual or intelligent basis for argument by doing that.

You keep trying to piece together the discussions that took place, and you're doing a very crappy job at it.

You have no clue what you're talking about, what's been said when, why or in what context, and what you bring up to try to prove you do, only proves you don't.

Foo makes a claim she can't prove, and you believe it ansd try to use it, while we pro-lifers prove it's a lie.

Elise makes claims she doesn't prove, and we prove her claims are bullshit too. You use their unsubstantiated claims to try to make and prove a point.

You're so inept at this it's ridiculous.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#268771 Dec 6, 2012
lil Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
"Listen, Boenehead, you couldn't be less effective in prving me wrong if you tried."

I didn't have to. Both the medical definition of abortion, and your own source did it for me.

"When a fetus dies, the pregnancy is OVER."

Not according to the medical sources.

"What's left to happen is for the contents of the uterus to come out, whether naturally, or with help by having a D&C procedure done to remove whatever still remains in the uterus."

Either way, the woman is still pregnant, and if the spontaneous abortion is not complete (that's what missed miscarriage MEANS), then the pregnancy must be ended by an abortion.

"That procedure is NOT called an "abortion"."

If it's used to removed the fetus, yes it is.

"The pregnancy will not continue to develop, no matter whether the fetus comes out or not. It will not so it's done."

Regardless. Both the medical definition of abortion, and your own source concurs; the woman is still pregnant, even if the fetus has died.

"Abortion may be either spontaneous (occurring from natural causes) or induced (artificially or therapeutically)."
We already know a fetus that dies in utero results in a spontaneous "abortion".
An "induced abortion" isn't what's done when a fetus died in utero. Or will your next argument be that it is?"

My argument is what it's been this whole time. Your own source, and the medical definition of abortion has proven my argument right.

By the way "Lily" @@, could you explain to all of us what a missed period is? Or a missed appointment? Pretty please?:)
No Relativism

Belleville, IL

#268772 Dec 6, 2012
Katie wrote:
<quoted text>
Yesterday you posted a bunch of links from the same site. A page contained this treasure within post #268493 --
"ICD-10-CM O03.9 is part of Diagnostic Related Group(s)(MS-DRG v28.0):
770 Abortion with d&c, aspiration curettage or hysterotomy
779 Abortion without d&c"
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/T833...
Now, wasn't your original claim that D&Cs are different depending on spontaneous and induced abortions? From what it says above, there is no difference. Just as has been claimed over and over again.
I think you do not understand what you read no matter who writes it.
Katie: "Now, wasn't your original claim that D&Cs are different depending on spontaneous and induced abortions? From what it says above, there is no difference."

A patient placed within a particular Diagnostic Related Group doesn't mean he/she is same as others in that group. The hospital is reimbursed the same for those in that group, even though they may receive different treatments for different reasons.

Submissions for reimbursement to Medicare for an induced abortion would be clear it is for an induced abortion. Doc/code for Rape/incest/life of mother and Proper ICD-9 code.

I shared yesterday that ICD-9 codes are clear that differences exist:

634 Spontaneous abortion (non-elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...

635 Legally induced abortion (elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...

636 Illegally induced abortion (elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#268773 Dec 6, 2012
lil Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the ones lying to yourselves about what we supposedly said. You have constantly been posting to us about things we haven't said, things we haven't posted and it's because you misread everything. Then you accuse us of lying when we've been the ones proving our claims, while you haven't proven us wrong. The only thing you erver prove is that you're brain is lost in space somewhere, because you have no clue what's going on in this forum.
You definitely said PC's said a D&C was an abortion and we did not. Not in February, not in October and not now.

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

Since: Mar 11

Rockin' USA ;)

#268774 Dec 6, 2012
Ya FREAKIN' think AFTER the numbers WHO HAVE posted here...OVER...250,000......THA T this thread WOULD have retired by now...since Romney...DIDN'T win the election..
worships reality

AOL

#268775 Dec 6, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
You'll get to the medical links, I'm sure. The pregnancy ends when the fetus is expelled, one way or the other.
i'm sure too. take your pick, stupid.

http://search.medicinenet.com/search/search_r...

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.c...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/pregna...
worships reality

AOL

#268776 Dec 6, 2012
elise in burque wrote:
<quoted text>You're wrong. Read a textbook.
i did. you're wrong.

stupid too.
worships reality

AOL

#268777 Dec 6, 2012
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry,
apology not accepted.

but legally the only accepted definition of pregnancy is the medical definition
i'll buy that.
and it does not specify that a woman is pregnant only when the fertilized egg is still "developing".
it sure does.

As long as there is a fertilized egg that has implanted in the uterus she is pregnant and even Lynne will agree to that.
as long as that fertilized egg is growing and developing. if it's dead and no longer capable of developing, she's not pregnant.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#268778 Dec 6, 2012
worships reality wrote:
I'm sorry, but nothing there refutes the medical definition of abortion.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#268779 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
NR: Target archery uses a quiver, arrows, bow, and target.
One archer shoots at a target. Another archer shoots at a target that has a sleeping baby placed just in front of it.
In your mind, AyakaNeo, both archers are using same equipment, and using same technique. You ignore the fact that the second archer kills a little human in pursuit of the target.
Foo: Why is it your kind ALWAYS make up stupid shit like this, then wonder why nobody takes you seriously?
__________
Foo, you are a deathscort.
You are the evil individual who escorts & places sleeping baby in front of target.
Thank you for proving my point again No Relevance.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#268780 Dec 6, 2012
lil Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
"Reading comprehension has nothing to do with the fact that you have referred to me as a bonehead in previous posts related to the same subject."
Yet, when you mentioned me calling you "bonehead", it was in reply to a post in which I called you "Clueless".
It makes no difference which post of yours I replied to. Fact is you have called me bonehead, clueless, toots, etc. throughout this same discussion.
lil Lily wrote:
You quote my post and Foo's reply to it,
~lil Lily wrote:
How about the fact that a D&C for a miscarriage is NOT "an abortion" like pro-choicers claimed it was,and that too was refuted by pro-lifers with facts, and all pro-choicers did in the face of facts was impotently try to deny the facts. lol and that too was refuted by pro-lifers with facts, and all pro-choicers did in the face of facts was impotently try to deny the facts. lol
For which Foo replied:
"Nobody claimed it was Lynne. The FACT is a D&C FOR an abortion is the EXACT SAME PROCEDURE as a D&C for ANY other purpose".~
You then ask, "If no one said it was an abortion what exactly is there to refute?"
I've already proven with the posts, post numbers and links to the posts of the pro-choicers who did in fact call a D&C after a miscarriage "an abortion".
Then why didn't you post them here again? You should still have those post numbers.
lil Lily wrote:
You're a reall fool to go only by what a proven pathological liar like Foo posts, which is what you did and I already proved she lied in saying that.
I didn't just read Foo's post. Elise said it and Katie did too. Are they all pathological liars?
lil Lily wrote:
You don't pay attention to anyone but pro-choicers, and you won't have a factual or intelligent basis for argument by doing that.
Oh please, so I should just listen to you because you have all the facts and never lie right?
lil Lily wrote:
You keep trying to piece together the discussions that took place, and you're doing a very crappy job at it.
There was no piecing together. You out of the blue come out with that post saying a PCer said it, no prochoicer said it in February prior to you saying they did. Prior to February when it was actually discussed what PC'r said the D&C was an abortion. If it wasn't Foo, Elise or Katie then they have their facts straight.
lil Lily wrote:
You have no clue what you're talking about, what's been said when, why or in what context, and what you bring up to try to prove you do, only proves you don't.
Go back and read the post yourself. You brought it up in February and you were told then that a D&C was not an abortion by at least 3 PC posters. I told you it wasn't an abortion so that's 4 PC posters. So ruling out the fact that it wasn't me, Foo, Elise or Katie, who said it? You're so good at remembering what people posted and understand the context of what they posted even when you were not posting at the time, you should have no problem remembering who said it.
lil Lily wrote:
Foo makes a claim she can't prove, and you believe it ansd try to use it, while we pro-lifers prove it's a lie.
Foo this, Foo that, every single day it's Foo Foo Foo.
lil Lily wrote:
Elise makes claims she doesn't prove, and we prove her claims are bullshit too. You use their unsubstantiated claims to try to make and prove a point.
You're so inept at this it's ridiculous.
Which claims Lynne? Don't just say Elise makes claims and provides no proof without providing the proof it's true.*facepalm*

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#268781 Dec 6, 2012
lil Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
Bitner, you failed.
Uh no Lynnikins, YOU failed. Many years ago, and continue to do so on a daily basis here.

If you weren't a complete and utter failure, someone MIGHT take you seriously.

You must LOVE ridicule as well as abuse Lynniekins.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#268782 Dec 6, 2012
That's not what it says at all; it says they should work with teams to improve documentation. It does NOT say they should all learn coding. Coding is a specialty unto itself.
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Foo: How typically dishonest of No Relevance to leave out one of the more important lines in that article:
"The report recommends that nurses specializing in informatics work with interdisciplinary teams to modify clinical documentation and workflow." Not all nurses are involved in billing and coding dear.
Elise: He doesn't know what informatics is. He doesn't know that nursing is a wide open profession and many specialties in nursing do not involve patient care. He is ignorant and needs to shut up.
__________
Foo reinforced my point.
"The report recommends that nurses specializing in informatics work with interdisciplinary teams to modify clinical documentation and workflow."
The report recommends that you familiarize yourself w/ coding to improve your "documentation & workflow." You work on a clinical interdisciplinary team, dear. Your knowledge of coding improves chances for reimbursement.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#268783 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
DNA analysis of a tumor from your body would still show it was part of your body (albeit w/ an aberration).
Prove that please.

Mom doesn't have two beating hearts.
When she's pregnant she does. One is in her chest the other is in her embryo or fetus.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#268784 Dec 6, 2012
Oh, goody! more PLM gobbledygook!

Deathscort? Why can't you zombies make a point without raping the english language?

When you filled out the analogy portion of the SAT, did the monitor slap you?
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
NR: Target archery uses a quiver, arrows, bow, and target.
One archer shoots at a target. Another archer shoots at a target that has a sleeping baby placed just in front of it.
In your mind, AyakaNeo, both archers are using same equipment, and using same technique. You ignore the fact that the second archer kills a little human in pursuit of the target.
Foo: Why is it your kind ALWAYS make up stupid shit like this, then wonder why nobody takes you seriously?
__________
Foo, you are a deathscort.
You are the evil individual who escorts & places sleeping baby in front of target.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#268785 Dec 6, 2012
lil Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm Lily,
Yes Lynne, we know, its your "new" screen name. However its ALSO known that your old SN was Lynne D among others.

Tell us, do you REALLY think you're fooling ANYONE Lynne D?

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#268786 Dec 6, 2012
worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
apology not accepted.
It wasn't an apology, context is everything.
worships reality wrote:
it sure does.
No it doesn't.
worships reality wrote:
as long as that fertilized egg is growing and developing. if it's dead and no longer capable of developing, she's not pregnant.
Then explain why she can't get pregnant with another developing embryo?

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#268787 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
AyakaNeo: "It's the same bow and arrow in any type of abortion, spontaneous or intentional."
As you stand before the two targets, you overlook the sleeping baby in front of one target. The archer not only seeks to hit the target w/ his bow & arrow, he intends to kill the baby in process.
How sweet, a sleeping baby. Your analogy is still stupid.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#268788 Dec 6, 2012
Insurance companies create their own categories of payment, but they do not affect the medical procedures themselves. This discussion had nothing to do with coverage.
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Katie: "Now, wasn't your original claim that D&Cs are different depending on spontaneous and induced abortions? From what it says above, there is no difference."
A patient placed within a particular Diagnostic Related Group doesn't mean he/she is same as others in that group. The hospital is reimbursed the same for those in that group, even though they may receive different treatments for different reasons.
Submissions for reimbursement to Medicare for an induced abortion would be clear it is for an induced abortion. Doc/code for Rape/incest/life of mother and Proper ICD-9 code.
I shared yesterday that ICD-9 codes are clear that differences exist:
634 Spontaneous abortion (non-elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...
635 Legally induced abortion (elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...
636 Illegally induced abortion (elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...
sassyliciouus

Jackson, NJ

#268789 Dec 6, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
"Listen, Boenehead, you couldn't be less effective in prving me wrong if you tried."
I didn't have to. Both the medical definition of abortion, and your own source did it for me.
"When a fetus dies, the pregnancy is OVER."
Not according to the medical sources.
"What's left to happen is for the contents of the uterus to come out, whether naturally, or with help by having a D&C procedure done to remove whatever still remains in the uterus."
Either way, the woman is still pregnant, and if the spontaneous abortion is not complete (that's what missed miscarriage MEANS), then the pregnancy must be ended by an abortion.
"That procedure is NOT called an "abortion"."
If it's used to removed the fetus, yes it is.
"The pregnancy will not continue to develop, no matter whether the fetus comes out or not. It will not so it's done."
Regardless. Both the medical definition of abortion, and your own source concurs; the woman is still pregnant, even if the fetus has died.
"Abortion may be either spontaneous (occurring from natural causes) or induced (artificially or therapeutically)."
We already know a fetus that dies in utero results in a spontaneous "abortion".
An "induced abortion" isn't what's done when a fetus died in utero. Or will your next argument be that it is?"
My argument is what it's been this whole time. Your own source, and the medical definition of abortion has proven my argument right.
By the way "Lily" @@, could you explain to all of us what a missed period is? Or a missed appointment? Pretty please?:)
This is absolutely stupid.

If you miscarried your child would you still answer 'yes " when asked if you were pregnant?

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