Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

There are 310175 comments on the Newsday story from Jan 22, 2008, titled Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision. In it, Newsday reports that:

Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

No Relativism

Huntington, IN

#268675 Dec 6, 2012
Lisa McClendon wrote:
Must we try to control EVERYTHING!!!! Sheesh let people decide for themselves what to do with their bodies. It is their body. No one owns it. Smh. www.homebusinessjoys.com
Lisa, I'm sorry you didn't get the memo that DNA analsysis results are conclusive: The preborn baby is NOT part of mom's body.

Please do pay attention.

TIA.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#268676 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
ICD-9-CM Diagnosis Code 779.6
Termination of pregnancy (fetus)
Deliberate termination of pregnancy, generally through the use of surgical procedures or drugs.
Short description: Termination of pregnancy.
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/760-779/...
----In 2013 becomes------
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z33.2
Encounter for elective termination of pregnancy
Excludes:
•early fetal death with retention of dead fetus (O02.1)
•late fetal death (O36.4)
•spontaneous abortion (O03)
http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/Z00-Z9...
Ayakaneo tried to prove awhile back that the coding proves a D&C for miscarriage is the same as a D&C for induced abortion.

The FACT that the REASONS for said procedure (D&C) are harted, coded and billed differently is proof that the procedure isn't considered "abortion" when used after miscarriage. It's not because pro-lifers just don't want it to be. It's that IT IS A DIFFERENT REASON for the procedure. Just as a D&C to remove fibroids would be DIFFERENT than a D&C to induce abortion. The procedure is the same, it's the PURPOSE FOR the procedure that's different.

None of us has said a D&C isn't a D&C each and every time, no matter the purpose for the D&C. That's what these mental cases seem to think we've said.

What we've said is, a D&C after miscarriage IS NOT and ABORTION. Not in charting, coding, billing, medically, legally or logically. It is a DIFFERENT PURPOSE the D&C is done for, than when it's done to induce abortion. It's not an "abortion procedure", when a pregnancy already spontaneously aborted. Doctors don't abort a pregnancy that already aborted. A dead fetus in utero aborts the pregnancy, no matter how long that fetus remains in utero. Hormones may indicate a woman is still pregnant, but the LACK OF GROWTH in the fetus says otherwise.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#268677 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Target archery uses a quiver, arrows, bow, and target.
One archer shoots at a target. Another archer shoots at a target that has a sleeping baby placed just in front of it.
In your mind, AyakaNeo, both archers are using same equipment, and using same technique. You ignore the fact that the second archer kills a little human in pursuit of the target.
They're so mind boggling stupid, they can't understand the basic difference or the relevance of it. Same equipment, DIFFERENT INTENT or purpose. It's what makes the difference regarding death medically and legally, regardless of the death. Dead may be dead, but CAUSE of death is the most important factor both medically and legally in any case of death.

They want to ignore the purpose, and act like the purpose is irrelevant, because it's [purpose/intent] that proves difference between natural death and killing and also proves what a bunch of numbskulls they are.
No Relativism

Huntington, IN

#268678 Dec 6, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, it's not the death of the embryo or fetus, but the expulsion that is an abortion, induced or spontaneous. Even for a spontaneous abortion, if the embryo/fetus remains in the uterus, the woman is still pregnant, it's an incomplete (abeit spontaneous) abortion, and any medical procedure used to expel the uterine contents constitutes an abortion procedure.
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z33.2
Encounter for elective termination of pregnancy

EXCLUDES:
•early fetal death with retention of dead fetus (O02.1)
•late fetal death (O36.4)
•SPONTANEOUS ABORTION (O03)

http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/Z00-Z9 ...

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#268679 Dec 6, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, it's not the death of the embryo or fetus, but the expulsion that is an abortion, induced or spontaneous. Even for a spontaneous abortion, if the embryo/fetus remains in the uterus, the woman is still pregnant, it's an incomplete (abeit spontaneous) abortion, and any medical procedure used to expel the uterine contents constitutes an abortion procedure.
"Once again, it's not the death of the embryo or fetus, but the expulsion that is an abortion, induced or spontaneous."

Pregnancy ends upon death of fetus. Fetus doesn't develop pregnancy ended whether fetus came out of not. That is what a spontaneous abortion is.

It may be missed or incomplete spontaneous abortion, but pregnancy aborted the moment that fetus died a natural death in utero.

I've made that claim several times since you people started posting your stupoidity back in Jan. and I found proof of my claims. Where's the proof of yours?

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-symptoms...

"A missed miscarriage occurs when a fetus has died in the womb or in utero."

Miscarriage is another word for what? Spontaneous abortion. A pregnancy is already aborted once fetus dies, as I've stated repeatedly.

"However a pregnant woman who had fetal death just before 20 weeks without the other signs of miscarriage could be still considered as having a missed miscarriage. "

"The longer the fetus stays in utero, however, the more potential symptoms could occur. For instance, the pregnancy will fail to progress. The belly won’t grow as it would if a developing fetus were present. Most importantly, Doppler exam will show no evidence of fetal heartbeat, and any sonogram/ultrasound would show a fetus that is completely still and has no heartbeat. "

"Good prenatal care is useful in making sure a missed miscarriage is identified. Most often doctors will want to treat this by performing a dilation and curettage (D & C), if miscarriage doesn’t begin in a few days. Presence of the fetus in the body does result in much higher risk for systemic infection, which could be life-threatening. In fact failure to diagnose missed miscarriage, often as a result of no prenatal care, could lead to a situation where the first symptom is blood infection or sepsis. "

It goes on about it.

ALL things we pro-lifers already knew and have posted. It's pro-choicers who want to change the meanings of certain terms.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#268680 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z33.2
Encounter for elective termination of pregnancy
EXCLUDES:
•early fetal death with retention of dead fetus (O02.1)
•late fetal death (O36.4)
•SPONTANEOUS ABORTION (O03)
http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/Z00-Z9 ...
When I say they can't read for comprehension, it isn't said to try to insult. It's said because it's FACT, and one they prove each time they post.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#268681 Dec 6, 2012
Wonder how many PCers will try to dismiss the info I provided in post 268679, claiming it's not a "medical" site. The info is what it is. I challenge them to prove the info wrong.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#268682 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Lisa, I'm sorry you didn't get the memo that DNA analsysis results are conclusive: The preborn baby is NOT part of mom's body.
Please do pay attention.
TIA.
A woman doesn't "own" the body of her fetus either. She's a guardian of it. Or at least that's what they're supposed to be. PCers like to ignore that women are supposed to be guardians of their children. They don't "own" their children whether developing in utero or once born.
PCers like to ignore the differences in the meaning of words, terms, medical procedures etc so that their senselessness might make sense. It never does, but they try.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#268683 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code Z33.2
Encounter for elective termination of pregnancy
EXCLUDES:
•early fetal death with retention of dead fetus (O02.1)
•late fetal death (O36.4)
•SPONTANEOUS ABORTION (O03)
http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/Z00-Z9 ...
I don't know what you think you've proven here, but none of this refutes what I said. The code you posted is for elective termination. Why don't you tell me WHY you think that disproves what I said?

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#268684 Dec 6, 2012
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>Looks like Pro lifers do lie.
You're the ones lying to yourselves about what we supposedly said. You have constantly been posting to us about things we haven't said, things we haven't posted and it's because you misread everything. Then you accuse us of lying when we've been the ones proving our claims, while you haven't proven us wrong. The only thing you erver prove is that you're brain is lost in space somewhere, because you have no clue what's going on in this forum.
pbfa

Mesa, AZ

#268685 Dec 6, 2012
cpeter1313 wrote:
Thanks..she got her wish, to leave the hospital and go home. She didn't suffer. That's what mattered.
<quoted text>
I just saw this, cpeter. I'm sorry, my friend. That changes the world forever.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

#268686 Dec 6, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but all you did was to prove that YOU were wrong when you implied in your post to Elise that a nurse should know the codes, when they aren't used by the nurse.
Someone who was actually in the medical profession would know that. So much for your claim that you were in Med school all those years ago.
He tries any stupid thing to try to make himself feel that he has any power to influence me, in any way. He has a raging case of uterus envy. He is an impotent little man:-(

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#268687 Dec 6, 2012
lil Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
"Once again, it's not the death of the embryo or fetus, but the expulsion that is an abortion, induced or spontaneous."
Pregnancy ends upon death of fetus. Fetus doesn't develop pregnancy ended whether fetus came out of not. That is what a spontaneous abortion is.
It may be missed or incomplete spontaneous abortion, but pregnancy aborted the moment that fetus died a natural death in utero.
I've made that claim several times since you people started posting your stupoidity back in Jan. and I found proof of my claims. Where's the proof of yours?
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-symptoms...
"A missed miscarriage occurs when a fetus has died in the womb or in utero."
Miscarriage is another word for what? Spontaneous abortion. A pregnancy is already aborted once fetus dies, as I've stated repeatedly.
"However a pregnant woman who had fetal death just before 20 weeks without the other signs of miscarriage could be still considered as having a missed miscarriage. "
"The longer the fetus stays in utero, however, the more potential symptoms could occur. For instance, the pregnancy will fail to progress. The belly won’t grow as it would if a developing fetus were present. Most importantly, Doppler exam will show no evidence of fetal heartbeat, and any sonogram/ultrasound would show a fetus that is completely still and has no heartbeat. "
"Good prenatal care is useful in making sure a missed miscarriage is identified. Most often doctors will want to treat this by performing a dilation and curettage (D & C), if miscarriage doesn’t begin in a few days. Presence of the fetus in the body does result in much higher risk for systemic infection, which could be life-threatening. In fact failure to diagnose missed miscarriage, often as a result of no prenatal care, could lead to a situation where the first symptom is blood infection or sepsis. "
It goes on about it.
ALL things we pro-lifers already knew and have posted. It's pro-choicers who want to change the meanings of certain terms.
I'm sorry, but not only didn't your source prove what you're saying, it actually disproved it. AND, the medical source I gave to No Relevance, as opposed to YOUR source for lay people, ALSO disproved it.

Surely you noticed the word "missed" in there? That means what?....that the miscarriage has NOT taken place just because the fetus had died. Your source ALSO continued on that "the pregnant woman.....", meaning she is STILL pregnant until the MISSED miscarriage is complete, whether that happens naturally or not.

So much for your implication that only anti-choicers can understand what they read, lol.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#268688 Dec 6, 2012
lil Lily wrote:
Wonder how many PCers will try to dismiss the info I provided in post 268679, claiming it's not a "medical" site. The info is what it is. I challenge them to prove the info wrong.
No reason for me to dismiss it as it proves you wrong, lol. I DID point out that it's a site for lay people, though.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

#268689 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Nurses should know the codes. Especially in hospice, home care, inpatient rehabilitation, etc.
Reimbursement much?
_________
"Any charting used by coders for billing will need to include clearer details, meaning nurses must be trained in ICD-10 clinical documentation requirements in order to prevent delays and denials. IF D-10 has a greater level of specificity than ICD-9 for problems, assessments, procedures and treatments. For example, ICD-9 includes nine codes for pressure ulcers, while ICD-10 has over 125."
http://www.beckersasc.com/asc-coding-billing-...
Bullshit. Ask any staff nurse you know if she needs to know coding. Administrators are often nurses, but they rarely work on the floor with patients. I'm a charge nurse, and I am not involved with billing and coding, you silly little man. I am in charge of making sure our patients get the best care. We keep track of supplies used, and staffing on each shift, to ensure best care/best practice. That does effect costs, but we don't worry about codes. You were never in this field. Ever.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

#268690 Dec 6, 2012
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text> I hear ya. Since death is our last chance to tell people what to do lol, I think whatever you want (within the law anyway) should be honored.
I agree.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

#268691 Dec 6, 2012
cpeter1313 wrote:
Thanks..she got her wish, to leave the hospital and go home. She didn't suffer. That's what mattered.
<quoted text>
That's beautiful. I'm glad :-)
Katie

Puyallup, WA

#268692 Dec 6, 2012
Is this being ignored on purpose?
-------

#268665
2 hrs ago

No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
I posted the CDC link to show the ICD's primary intent. Of course, the ICD is used for more than just that (you & Bitner point out billing). I used the ICD to show how you proaborts were wrong. Again. So, yes, the ICD has many uses.

Katie wrote:
<quoted text>
Yesterday you posted a bunch of links from the same site. A page contained this treasure within post #268493 --

"ICD-10-CM O03.9 is part of Diagnostic Related Group(s)(MS-DRG v28.0):
•770 Abortion with d&c, aspiration curettage or hysterotomy
•779 Abortion without d&c"
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/T833 ...

Now, wasn't your original claim that D&Cs are different depending on spontaneous and induced abortions? From what it says above, there is no difference. Just as has been claimed over and over again.

I think you do not understand what you read no matter who writes it.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

#268693 Dec 6, 2012
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Even atheists believe Jesus existed.
Not necessarily. IF he existed (there is no proof of that) he was not the son of some god. Why can't you prove that he was?

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

#268694 Dec 6, 2012
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's face it, you tried to imply something about Elise using the excuse of the codes. You failed. Deal with it.
It's possible that nurses who work independently for certain agencies may be expected to add codes to their documentation. These codes are probably included on their programs or paper charts . It's bullshit and it's not a part of nursing. However, they are always trying to make us do extra work, like any employer does. I don't know any nurse that has to do it, but I wouldn't put it past some institutions. Thank goodness for unions:-)

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