Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Full story: Newsday

Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision.

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Since: Dec 09

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#262328
Oct 6, 2012
 
Huskerlicious wrote:
<quoted text>Most women who have an endometrial ablation are past menopause. What i posted came from a health care web site,they would know better than you now wouldn't they.
Really? Post menopause women have more ablations than any other?

Since: Dec 09

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#262329
Oct 6, 2012
 
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
One, prove your first statement. I was not past menopause when mine was done. Two, even your own source didn't say it was used as a treatment after a spontaneous abortion, which IS what a miscarriage is. We were talking about the D&C used after a miscarriage, and YOU tried to say they don't DO a D&C anymore, but an endometrial ablation. You are wrong. Period. You even tried to claim that your doctor said so. You lied. Period. No doctor would ever say something like that.
Maybe she meant peri or pre I don't know lol.

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

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#262330
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Look, everybody... I think we are all playing into the hands of a couple of pinheads (to use their own term) that are only interested in creating drama by starting endless bickerfests over semantics. They argue over one word or one sentence, literally. And then, LLL has the audacity to tell us that we should interpret HER words as she intended for them to mean, when she doesn't give us that benefit, herself. These women are petty, controlling, dishonorable and mean. That is my genuine opinion of their character and I believe I am correct.

I apologize for lowering myself to LLL's level. She is a manipulative bitch, to be sure, but I am responsible for reacting to her nastiness. I am a better person than that and I didn't act it. In the future, I will act in this venue with the proper ethics I live by in the RW.

I still reserve the right to make irreverent jokes, but I will be gentle. It's in my DNA to laugh at myself and to tease others. I will be kind, however :-)

Since: Jun 08

Atrisco Village

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#262331
Oct 6, 2012
 

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P.S. LLL, sorry for calling you a bitch. I think the name is fitting but I could've used a less crude one. I'm sure you will be less than magnanimous in replying to this apology, but I know your nature, by know. It's the best I can do, considering the not-so-nice things you haven post about me. I'll try harder:-)

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

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#262332
Oct 6, 2012
 

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John-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Good afternoon "Seattle," as you can see, I don't get onto these threads too much anymore...
I suppose this is a case of you and I viewing the evidence presented to us and arriving at completely different conclusions.
The interesting thing about you, "Moon," and "Pete," is that the three of you can come off quite strongly in stressing your opinions from time to time...perhaps that's the common thread that compels you to continue conversing with one another.
I don't "know" either "Moon," or "Pete," terribly well so if I'm to assign motives here it's merely speculation...nothing more.
I'd wager that "Pete" uses the "Vlad" avatar much in the same way Lady Gaga used her "Meat-Dress": in an effort to shock not for the "shock-value" but to raise awareness of the viciousness some people have to endure because of their sexual orientation.
The reasons "Moon" targets Christianity as enthusiastically as she does is not merely an attempt to discredit the religion in and of itself, but to call to account those who publicly claim their personal "righteousness" yet thoroughly fail in the proverbial "Litmus Test" when their faith is put into daily practice regarding their dealings with others who may or may not happen to share that faith.
Nice to see you back.

:)

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

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#262333
Oct 6, 2012
 

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elise in burque wrote:
<quoted text>Oops.
Sorry, Sassy. I got you and Knit mixed up.
That's very easy to do since they're both faux-Christian morons.

“Game on !”

Since: Aug 09

nyc

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#262334
Oct 6, 2012
 

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realkatie wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay. We might actually be on the same page now.
Almost. But still not quite there.
Medically speaking, the limit of viability is not static.
Correct. And the fact that it is NOT static directly contradicts your definition of viability. For if the definition of viability was the ability to survive WITHOUT medical assistance as you claim....then advances in medicine would have no impact on the limits of viability.
Roe v Wade used the 24wk mark because it's 50/50.
50/50 what ???
It doesn't necessarily mean that each and every fetus gestated to 24wks is viable, though.
No it doesn't. You are correct. But by your definition...NO fetus gestated to 24 weeks could ever be viable since you maintain it has a 50/50 chance of REACHING viability....which means it has not yet reached viability. And if it has not yet reached VIABILITY....then that means it is NOT yet viable. And if it is not viable it cannot survive no matter what medical treatment is applied(your words). So by your definition NO fetus gestated to 24 weeks could ever be viable since every fetus born at 24 weeks needs some level of medical treatment, even the one that ultimately end up surviving.
Roe v Wade also included WITH medical treatment in its definition of viability,
Yes it did. And as a result it established legal precedent for the definition of viability for the purpose of abortion statutes. So of what relevance would any other definition be as it relates to the issue of abortion ?
but medically speaking, viability means ability to sustain itself independently (meaning without further medical treatment, not never using medical treatment).
No, medically speaking it does not mean that at all. There is no medical definition of viability that defines it exclusively WITHOUT medical treatment.
Are we on the same page still?
Nope. There's still some work to be done.

“Game on !”

Since: Aug 09

nyc

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#262335
Oct 6, 2012
 

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elise in burque wrote:
<quoted text>If you work a day shift on a busy floor you won't be sitting much. However, depending only how well your circulatory problem is managed, you should probably try to get onto a mother/baby unit, because you will be active but not usually very hectic. Those patients are usually healthy. You will have to be an RN to work in most hospitals. Yeah, some nurses get burned out, but most just move to a different speciality, venue, schedule, etc. You have to love this job:-)
Really ? You sound like you speak from a wealth of experience. How long is it that you've been a nurse.....20,30 years ???

“Game on !”

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#262336
Oct 6, 2012
 

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sassylicious wrote:
<quoted text> Elise is making herself look really stupid if she thinks people buy her "i am a RN "story.
A 55 yr old woman...going to school for nursing...yet is on here round the clock .....AND hasnt worked in years? How does she survive with no income?
By her own admision she hasn't yet worked one day as a nurse.

“Game on !”

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#262337
Oct 6, 2012
 

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_Bad Axe wrote:
<quoted text>Roe v Wade used the 24 week mark because it was the earliest, as of the time of the decision, known point that a fetus could be viable, albeit with artifical means. Roe v Wade wanted to err on the side of caution when it came to protecting the State's interest in protecting a "viable' fetus. All the arguments from the PC side about the definition of "viable" not including "albeit by artifical aide" is irrelevant in abortion law, since Roe v Wade set the legal precedence for the definition of viability. I dont get why you all even waste your time with your "medically speaking" arguments since it has no standing or legal precedence in abortion law over Roe v Wade's definition. Personally, I think if there is any question of whether the fetus is viable or not than it's a whole different consideration than just the woman's right to medical privacy, obviously Roe v Wade agrees, as I think most PC people do.
Exactly. I asked katie the same question. Even if there was a medical definition of viability that defined it exclusively WITHOUT medical assistance ( there isn't ), of what relevance would it have to abortion or abortion statutes ?

Did ya see where Vaddy the coward had the little atrophied nads to call someone else stupid for saying a fetus could be viable at 24 weeks ? He then went on to condescendingly correct that same poster by saying that at 24 weeks the fetus was not viable...but rather had a 50/50 chance of REACHING VIABILITY.

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#262338
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Doc Degall wrote:
<quoted text>
By her own admision she hasn't yet worked one day as a nurse.
You don't actually need to work as a nurse to call yourself a nurse. You need to pass the exam and get your degree first.

“Game on !”

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#262339
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Sister Kathryn Lust wrote:
<quoted text>What if it doesn't have a heart beat?
<quoted text> But if it has no brain, and no heartbeat, and you killed it, do you still get smacked by Mel?
Look, hon, we all know a human is a human - but we American humans also sanction death on a case by case basis through our judicial and legal systems. Just because they're 'cuter' than the average home invader, doesn't mean they're any less dangerous. The US has the second-highest maternal death rate in the industrialized world. Most murdered pregnant women here are killed by their significant other. Pregnancy, gestation, and delivery are WAY more dangerous than legal elective abortion. Women have the same rights to risk assessment and self defense as men, even (and perhaps especially) when we are pregnant.
<quoted text>It's human. It's just not a person yet. There's a vast difference, in a free society, between a group of undifferentiated cells, and a person. There just is.
<quoted text>We do it with other mammals every day. Think veal. Think drowned puppies and kittens. Think mink.

Here's a question for you: What makes homo sapiens sapiens so frigging special that we have to pretend through legislation to 'guarantee' its chance at life?
There is already legislation that demonstrates that we as a society consider homo sapiens to be "friggin special".
Do we have laws whereby we can be convicted of murdering anything but a homo sapien ?

As for the guarantee of a "chance at life"....there is no such "chance" involved at all. That life already exists. That is a matter of scientific FACT. What we have done as a society is arbitrarily declare that LIFE unworthy of any protection simply due to the venue in which it exists and its stage of development.

“Game on !”

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#262340
Oct 6, 2012
 

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AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>Does a man own his penis because it's his penis regardless of where it is? Yes. Really bad analogy Sassy.
Maybe it wasn't the best of analogies. Why not ask Bitter if she's in a jewelry store and attempts to steal a diamond ring by ingesting it, does she own it because it is inside of her ???

“Game on !”

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#262341
Oct 6, 2012
 

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AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>You don't actually need to work as a nurse to call yourself a nurse.
What does this even mean ? So anyone who has never worked one second as a nurse can still call themselves a nurse ?

You need to pass the exam and get your degree first.
To what.....work as a nurse ? Or call yourself a nurse ? Or both ?

“Live in purple”

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#262342
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Doc Degall wrote:
<quoted text>
What does this even mean ? So anyone who has never worked one second as a nurse can still call themselves a nurse ?
<quoted text>
To what.....work as a nurse ? Or call yourself a nurse ? Or both ?
Okey dokey "Doc" Debagg.

“...sigh”

Since: Nov 09

Smithtown, NY

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#262343
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Purple Queen wrote:
<quoted text>
Okey dokey "Doc" Debagg.
High Five!

: D

“Rockabye”

Since: May 11

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#262344
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Doc Degall wrote:
<quoted text>
Almost. But still not quite there.
<quoted text>
Correct. And the fact that it is NOT static directly contradicts your definition of viability. For if the definition of viability was the ability to survive WITHOUT medical assistance as you claim....then advances in medicine would have no impact on the limits of viability.
Then the information that fetal viability has been being determined since before there were advanced medical technologies or otherwise more sophisticated than holding a mirror to the nostrils has escaped your thought process. Medically speaking, determining viability is based on factors involving fetus' physiological capabilities independent of the umbilical cord, not dependent upon advanced medical technologies. Because of this, I see no contradiction in my claim.
<quoted text>
50/50 what ???
What? You don't remember?
You discuss it in the paragraph below, so I'll discuss it there, too.
<quoted text>
No it doesn't. You are correct. But by your definition...NO fetus gestated to 24 weeks could ever be viable since you maintain it has a 50/50 chance of REACHING viability....which means it has not yet reached viability. And if it has not yet reached VIABILITY....then that means it is NOT yet viable. And if it is not viable it cannot
survive no matter what medical treatment is applied(your words). So by your definition NO fetus gestated to 24 weeks could ever be viable since every fetus born at 24 weeks needs some level of medical treatment, even the one that ultimately end up surviving.
Well, I'm pretty sure I've typed potential viability instead of reaching viability and that both phrases are interchangeable. You write above as if there were no such thing as potential viability, that a fetus was either viable or nonviable. There is a gray area up to certain gestational age and the 24wk mark falls within it, creating that chance of survival or ability to reach viability at a rate of 50% yes, 50% no. Am pretty sure links were provided in the past discussing this while you were too busy to learn in your attempts to discredit me and the continual claim you've repeated above. More fool you, I guess.

Here's a link discussing viability back in the late '60s and early '70s (pertinent time frame to RvW). Like the legal profession, medical professionals go by rules, regulations, and ethics established hundreds of years ago or more. All while updating and advancing, building upon old knowledge and adding to present day technologies.

https://scholarworks.iupui.edu/bitstream/hand...
<quoted text>
Yes it did. And as a result it established legal precedent for the definition of viability for the purpose of abortion statutes. So of what relevance would any other definition be as it relates to the issue of abortion ?
I do not agree there was a legal precedent set; meaning a legal definition of viability would dictate physicians how to determine viability based on technology. As in forcing physicians to use respirators for preemies each and every time they are born struggling to breathe. There would be instances this would not be appropriate and who better to determine that than a physician? The way you word this, it sounds as if you want the legal system to determine health care rather than the physician and instead of regulating it. This is what I'm speaking to here, every time you've brought this up and feigned misunderstanding.

"H-5.989 Freedom of Communication Between Physicians and Patients
It is the policy of the AMA:"
http://www.ama-assn.org/ad-com/polfind/Hlth-E...
first two pages
<quoted text>
No, medically speaking it does not mean that at all. There is no medical definition of viability that defines it exclusively WITHOUT medical treatment.
See first link.
<quoted text>
Nope. There's still some work to be done.
Good luck!

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#262346
Oct 6, 2012
 

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elise in burque wrote:
<quoted text>I forgot that Lynne is truly crazy. I had no idea she was talking about a discussion we all had in January. My gawd, to me that feels like years ago. Does she have nothing to took about but Topix bullshit? What a freaking freak!
So. Foo, Sassy says that you claimed that a D&C is an abortion, even when there is no product of a pregnancy in the uterus. True?
False. All I've said is what you and dozens of others have said, INCLUDING medical sites. A D&C is a D&C no matter WHAT the purpose its being done for. Nothing more, nothing less.
Huskerlicious

Falls City, NE

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#262347
Oct 6, 2012
 

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LiIrabbitfoofoo wrote:
<quoted text>
False. All I've said is what you and dozens of others have said, INCLUDING medical sites. A D&C is a D&C no matter WHAT the purpose its being done for. Nothing more, nothing less.
And abortion is murdering a living human being no matter WHAT.

“That rug tied the room”

Since: Aug 09

together--did it not...?

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#262348
Oct 6, 2012
 
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice to see you back.
:)
Thank you Milady.

:)

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