Another Depression?

"Am I nervous?" says the professor of economic history at the Johns Hopkins University .

[Rages]

Sitting here with a substantial portion of my life savings gone, I get zero comfort from Galumbos. Trying to solve the current problems by borrowing money from the future squeezes that future. The money people will have to pay in increased taxes to cover these bailouts is money that will not be spent to boost the economy in the future.

The only way out of this mess is for the US to become the world leader in Green Technology and sell that technology to the rest of the world but the US Sheeple will never realize that.

[NoFreeRides]

If we are lucky, people will realize that the best way to deal with the present and the future is to spend less than you make and save the difference.

In the short run that type of thinking will shrink the economy further, but in the long run it will reduce the sheeples dependence on government and increase their self sufficiency.

Of course that will never happen because we are nown an instant gratification/entitlment society.

[jeffro]

I tought I said depression over a year ago and was laughed off this forum. We will by pass the depression, this is an economic collapse, two different species. I would rather have a depression. They can't stop it now. The Dow will drop another 500-600 today. It will collapse in a few weeks. Tens of millions will become homeless.

[zdef]

looks like Mccain is an anti jew and terrorist sympatizer
see for yourself
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/electio...

[jeffro]

Well, they announced a global rate cut so we will see some rally today, will be short lived, the market will resume it's downward trend in a day or so.. This is their last weapon now, it will have no lasting effect.

[jeffro]

Galumbos must be an idiot. Let me
challenge him.

A. The big banks that are left have derivitives, which are all bad, larger than their balance sheets. They are done.

B. Credit default swaps range in losses 55 TRILLION. write that down.

C. Global derivitives, there is a margin call ( better look through your pile of papers. Number 176 TRILLION. write that down.

D. Federal Deficit 20 Trillion dollar range.Plus 50 trilliom for SS and Medi Care which will not exist in two morw years.

E. Countries production capabilities:
Almost none.

F. Government prints money to provide work, part of what alreday got us here. We go into hyper infaltion , a burger will cost 25.00. Destroying what's left of anyone savings.

G. There is no way out.

[Cliff Brinkman]

U.S. deficit in relation to GNP, 1929: 15 percent

U.S. Deficit in relation to GNP, 2007: 65 percent

U.S. mfg capacity, 1929: very strong

U.S. mfg capacity, 2007: very weak

Financial system leverage, as a percentage of world GNP, 1929:?? 5 to 1 maybe? 10 to 1?

Financial system leverage as a percentage of world GNP, 2008:?? 20 to 1 perhaps?

U.S. trade union movement, 1929: strong

U.S. union movement, 2007 (gone)--"ballast" from mostly-unionized government workers will be significant, but so will class resentment from non-union, non gvt. workers.

Jeffro may be overstating things. But he may be right.

[Cliff Brinkman]

oops-- make that "U.S. debt" above--not deficit

[Scott G]

Rages wrote:

Sitting here with a substantial portion of my life savings gone, I get zero comfort from Galumbos. Trying to solve the current problems by borrowing money from the future squeezes that future. The money people will have to pay in increased taxes to cover these bailouts is money that will not be spent to boost the economy in the future.
The only way out of this mess is for the US to become the world leader in Green Technology and sell that technology to the rest of the world but the US Sheeple will never realize that.

You are the Sheeple. If there was a market out there, then BP Solar would not hav just notified that they are not finishing their $97 million expansion here because they can't compete globaly in Solar power. What does that say?

[Number Six]

Scott G wrote:

<quoted text>
You are the Sheeple. If there was a market out there, then BP Solar would not hav just notified that they are not finishing their $97 million expansion here because they can't compete globaly in Solar power. What does that say?

Using current technology, ROI in solar is in the 25 to 40 year range, depending on who you talk to and where you are located.

Wind is a better solution, but still not nearly as good as nuclear.

[jeffro]

Actually the financial system was leveraged at 30 to 1. Then bet on derivatives. To simplify, you inflated your house value to 1 million and with no regulation and leveraged it and borrowed 30 million. You took the 30 million and placed a bet. The bet lost, your house in now considered worthless and your loan is called. This is what they are now calling deleveraging. This is what the world banks did. That was their unprecedented growth faze. It was built on false premise as stated by George Soros. Like he stated, it's just hard to believe. All the worlds savings and capital has just evaporated.

[Fang Guy]

It's not that complicated. When Democrats are in there, we thrive. When Republicans are in there, we trash.

Yes, there are exceptions, but not many. And that's because Democrats are still the party of the people and not the fat-cat rich, albeit not as much as the good old days before someone decided that we had to handle a demagogue like Palin with kid gloves simply because she is a woman.

Supply side economics has now been around for a quarter of a century and has yet to work even a little bit, yet Republicans keep pushing it. Go figure.

There is admittedly plenty of blame to go around as to how we got into this mess, but only the Democrats can fix it.

[rick]

For you to have done a story interviewing an economics professor without mentioning either the Federal Reserve Act or the Bretton Woods agreement is almost a waste of space. Paper money has created a house of cards. The government tells us what it is worth and we believe them, until we don't. Buy gold with what you have left before the rest of the world figures out what it is. Paper.

[Number Six]

Fang Guy wrote:

It's not that complicated. When Democrats are in there, we thrive. When Republicans are in there, we trash.
Yes, there are exceptions, but not many. And that's because Democrats are still the party of the people and not the fat-cat rich, albeit not as much as the good old days before someone decided that we had to handle a demagogue like Palin with kid gloves simply because she is a woman.
Supply side economics has now been around for a quarter of a century and has yet to work even a little bit, yet Republicans keep pushing it. Go figure.
There is admittedly plenty of blame to go around as to how we got into this mess, but only the Democrats can fix it.

Yes, I certainly remember the great economic times that was the Carter era.

Trying to simplify this down to one party or the other is not valid, considering the amount of time it takes for these policies to grow, either into a sustainable ecomnomic model or a debacle.

For instance, Bush inherited a surplus, but an economy headed downward after the bursting of the tech bubble. Theere is argument as to whether his tax cuts got us out of the recession sooner or later than without them. The surplus was spent in increasing the size of government and two wars after 9/11.

But blaming the mortgage crisis on him is not fair. This is one thing that he had almost nothing to do with. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley act in 1999 that Obama keeps pointing to sailed through the Senate and House, was voted for by both McCain and Biden, and signed by Clinton.

Neither candidate will put the blame where it belongs, on the borrower who borrowed more than he could afford, on the broker who aided in falsifying loan papers, the banks for not doing due dilligence on each and every loan, the ratings organizations rating the securities far higher than they should have.

Now we're left holding the bag and talking about buying up bad mortgages for people who gambled on the housing market always increasing at an unsustainable rate and lost. You want to renegotiate the terms, sure. But taking the lose on someone who paid too much for somthing is BS. What's next? Do we back people who lose in Vegas? Hey, my car is not worth what I paid for it anymore, can someone rescue me?

[Capitalism]

People shouldn't be surprised by this financial crisis.Every crisis since 1987 and really since the early seventies has only propped it up for a period of time and every crisis is more difficult than the preceding ones.This is how capitalism functions..speculation with more speculation....credit swaps,derivatives,stocks...all instruments of speculation...fictitious capital as Karl Marx called it.Unfortunately for working people the wealthy are doing everything they can to shift the burden of their greed onto the working class.

[Surf52]

zdef wrote:

looks like Mccain is an anti jew and terrorist sympatizer
see for yourself
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/electio...

The village idiots are out early today I see.

[Surf52]

Capitalism wrote:

People shouldn't be surprised by this financial crisis.Every crisis since 1987 and really since the early seventies has only propped it up for a period of time and every crisis is more difficult than the preceding ones.This is how capitalism functions..speculation with more speculation....credit swaps,derivatives,stocks...all instruments of speculation...fictitious capital as Karl Marx called it.Unfortunately for working people the wealthy are doing everything they can to shift the burden of their greed onto the working class.

When you dam up a flood, you only increase the amount of water you are holding back. If you're answer is to continually make the dam higher and stronger, the eventual collapse will be catastropically worse than if you let the flood occur in the first place.

This is what we've done to the financial markets since 1929. Once the collapse occurs, no manner of tinkering by Government will avert the inevitable.

[ann]

Depression? Hell, we passed The Waltons stage a while back and now are heading straight for Little House on the Prairie.

[Surf52]

ann wrote:

Depression? Hell, we passed The Waltons stage a while back and now are heading straight for Little House on the Prairie.

I thought we passed that with the Mormon cult back in the spring.

[Surf52]

Fang Guy wrote:

It's not that complicated. When Democrats are in there, we thrive. When Republicans are in there, we trash.
Yes, there are exceptions, but not many. And that's because Democrats are still the party of the people and not the fat-cat rich, albeit not as much as the good old days before someone decided that we had to handle a demagogue like Palin with kid gloves simply because she is a woman.
Supply side economics has now been around for a quarter of a century and has yet to work even a little bit, yet Republicans keep pushing it. Go figure.
There is admittedly plenty of blame to go around as to how we got into this mess, but only the Democrats can fix it.

That's right the Carter years were an economic cornicopia and there was no Reagan recovery.

Do you sell any of that weed or do you smoke it all by yourself?