Ford v. Chevy v. Dodge: WHO IS BETTER???

Created by Chevys for me on Jan 27, 2008

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mustang

Ashburn, VA

#3038 Jul 25, 2013
The boss 500 tf funnycar engine is a all ford design. Look it up on realities I've posted many times. The part from the moose hemi won't bolt up to the Ford boss. The ford and force designed heads, are made different than the molars. Plus like I said, the boss 500 is a numbered part in ford catologs. Do you think if there making cash and fame from a mopar design, that mopar would just sit back and watch, and not sue them for fraud? Are ford and force would put that much time and cash into making the same designed engine? Don't listen to these mopar fans tell you lies, the nhra ford boss500 is all ford design.just like a ford motor had hemi style heads on a ford engine 4-5 years before molar ever had a Hein head on a engine. Here's to the all ford designed boss 500
mustang

Ashburn, VA

#3039 Jul 26, 2013
Also, Courtney force ran 322mph in 1000ft track.fastest speed to 1000ft. In a test session. It's on YouTube. With boss 500 engine.faster than the 320mph record, but don't count as record. because it was in test session but on nhra track scoreboard. John force has the e.t and speed record for true 1/4th mile at 4.66st 333.75mph. Which his teammate Robert hight beat with a 4.63e.t @ 334mph in his ford designed boss 500 mustang but didn't have fast enough. Backup run to change record if you watch nhra, you know what I'm talking about.the reason it's 1000ft now is to slow them down
mustang

Ashburn, VA

#3040 Jul 26, 2013
The all ford designed boss 500 has e.t and speed record in true 1/4th mile. And has ran faster speed in 1000ft pass with Courtney forces 322mph pass in test session is faster than mopars Jack beckman 320mph record pass. Plus ford set the fastest street legal record with twin turbo ford by @282 mph in Texas mile run. Plus has world record for a door driven reaches at 5.95e.t@ 260mph 1/4mile. Corey Arran or something. Look it up, I go by facts not forums or hearsay but real sites I can see. Go all ford designed boss 500 fastest engine in car made
Paradigm

Ottawa, Canada

#3041 Jul 26, 2013
There is only "ONE" engine in the NHRA Top Fuel classes, whether it be in a Funny Car or a Dragster.
It is called the NHRA Top Fuel Regulation Engine. This has been and continues to be mandated (read strictly enforced) by the NHRA.

The NHRA Top Fuel Regulation Engine platform (read base architecture) is the exclusive domain of the 1964, 426 Chrysler factory race HEMI®.
All of the engines running nitromethane fuel in the NHRA are closely scrutinized variants of the second generation Chrysler Hemi including John Force's Boss 500.

The Boss 500 conforms to the NHRA Top Fuel Regulation platform or it would not be allowed to compete. Force's engine was introduced during an NHRA engine development moratorium that has not been lifted. Moratorium means exactly that. No engine development.

To call that engine the Ford Boss 500 nitro engine is deliberately misleading. It does not matter how much Ford money has gone into the engine any more than it matters where it is produced.

By way of appearances it is the Boss 500, however it is not a Ford. It is a poorly disguised, cosmetically altered, customized Chrysler style Hemi.

There are no Ford parts or Ford engineering in it. Even the supposedly Ford main bearings available from the Ford racing catalogue aren't Ford. They're MAHLE/Clevite.
The same bearings developed for use in the nitro Hemi.

All of John Force's wins in Top Fuel regardless of the body style on the car were powered by Chrysler type Hemi engines and that continues to this day.

To call the Boss 500 a "Ford" engine is an insult to the Chrysler engineers responsible for an architecture that Ford can only envy.

The most recent publication that addresses this directly is the April 2013 edition of Mopar Action Magazine. The article by Paul Stenquist runs from pages 66 thru 71.

If a Mopar magazine seems too biased for your enlightenment then I recommend that you go to page 62 of the February 2013 Popular Hotrodding Magazine.
Read about the CHRYSLER SECOND-GEN HEMI.

Absolutely nothing in NHRA Top Fuel is Ford "powered" and hasn't been for over four decades. To believe otherwise is just poisonously and infectiously stupid.
To promote otherwise is fraud!
mustang

Wilkesboro, NC

#3042 Jul 30, 2013
Ok, if you think so,lol. Just like you said you where getting mopar dodge to sue ford for false statements and fraud? Lol. It's the same engine, the heads, won't work on the boss engine from the mopar engine. The insides are different, the boss engine has part numbers in ford catalog, yet it's dodges design,lol.Yea, sure ford, dodge would let that happen,lol. You might fool some people, but it don't work with me. You say ford losing,force teams losing,nhra losing, magazines talking about its losing. For what reason would that help them? That's like saying Henry Ford quildcycle was copied by all car makers in usa
mustang

Wilkesboro, NC

#3043 Jul 30, 2013
Envy,lol. Funny you know ford engine had first Hemi style head on car,5 years before molar ever had Hein heads on there car engines. So who copied who, talking about fraud. Henry Ford had first gasolined car style in USA, called quildcycle 1896, so every car company to make one , copied Ford's design= fact. So really mopar copycated Henry Ford car design. He made first gas powered car in usa, they can only be one first maker of anything. So mopar is the one commiting fraud.by copying car design,and copying a hemi style head off a ford engine. Because ford motor had hemi head before mopar. 427 cammer ford engine had more horsepower than a mopar Hein engine. 657hp from factory
mustang

Wilkesboro, NC

#3044 Jul 30, 2013
Like I said. Ford, force made new engine, with new insides,New heads and is all ford designed engine. Think what you want, but the fact is, boss 500 is all ford designed, and has run faster speed in 1/4 mile,and 1000ft.than a molar hemi. Mopar only dreams of running faster. All ford powered boss500 ford engine, eating mopars
Paradigm

Ottawa, Canada

#3045 Jul 30, 2013
ALL OF THE BOSS 500 SPECIFIC DATA IN THIS POST ORIGINATES FROM JOHN MEDLEN.

The set of parameters in which the BOSS 500 is based is to follow the pattern of the generation 2 Chrysler HEMI® as mandated by the NHRA.

So what makes it a Chrysler pattern?

Sanctioned by Chrysler, former Chrysler engineer Bob Tarozzi amended the Chrysler factory engineer’s 1964, 426 race HEMI® blueprint to allow for the properties of aluminum. Engine builder Keith Black worked from that blueprint to produce the Chrysler top fuel race HEMI®. Black’s motor wore a MOPAR® part number. The NHRA adopted that engine as their top fuel regulation platform. All engines conforming to that platform are Chrysler variants. This becomes easy to understand when you know that “pattern” is a synonym for “design”.

How is the BOSS 500 a Chrysler HEMI® design?

The Chrysler HEMI® variant TFX and the BOSS 500 share the same bore spacing, cylinder bank offset/vee inclination, camshaft centerline, block deck height, main bearing and camshaft bore diameters, lifter bore spacing, head stud positioning; the exact same pattern of 4 main cap bolts (2 vertical, 2 horizontal), with studs of the same material and dimension, thread pattern and depth of engagement.

The cylinder bore diameter is the same between the BOSS 500 and the Chrysler HEMI® at 4.1875”(4.19). The BOSS has the same diameter dry cylinder liners as the HEMI®, same depth, retained by a flange at the top, the same Hussy Copper head gaskets, the same 13 head studs, 5 taller toward the inside, the other 8 on the outside in the same pattern.
The camshaft and crankshaft will interchange. The TFX HEMI® variant ran a 3” main bearing for years before it was used also in the BOSS 500.

According to Dean Antonelli of John Force Racing the 3” bearing is the Clevite Nitro V series bearing developed for the top fuel HEMI®. The crankshaft is from Sonny Bryant and Winberg and the cam is from Competition Cams (9310 billet).
The intake valve is 35 degrees from vertical, exhaust valve 21 degrees, with a 56 degree included angle. Bore spacing on the BOSS 500 and the Chrysler HEMI® is 4.80”.

The NHRA imposed a moratorium on engine development on November 11, 2003. Engine development moratorium means exactly that, no engine development. Four years into that moratorium which still stands, the BOSS 500 first ran in Las Vegas on October 18, 2007.
Paradigm

Ottawa, Canada

#3046 Jul 30, 2013
In 2006, Computer Assisted Design (CAD) specialist James Gregg “drew” the BOSS 500 based on the parameters of the NHRA regulation engine.

In other words he “drew” an existing architecture so that it could be studied for alterations.
To suggest that this was a “clean sheet approach” does not make it a clean sheet design. That drawing was “functionally-based” on the existing and proven design of the Chrysler HEMI®.

Working to make changes within the confines of an existing architecture is nothing more than customizing, and identifying the finished product defaults to the base (read parent) architecture.

The BOSS 500 is a Chrysler HEMI® variant. It is not a clean sheet engine, never was.

The TFX top fuel engine was approved by the NHRA to run a 3” main bearing. Other than that concession it is still a Chrysler HEMI® variant. After having run that bearing for a few years in the TFX, JFR decided that since the 385 series Ford 429/460 use a 3” main bearing they could give the engine some other identity by way of a Ford part number for the bearing, never mind that the bearing is produced by Clevite and was developed for the top fuel HEMI®.

As the architecture signifies the designation of the bearings, then the 3” Clevites that JFR use in the BOSS 500 are actually Chrysler bearings as they reside in a Chrysler style architecture.

How did JFR "transmogrify" the HEMI®?

They modified the main cap and put metal in the area where it resides. They put metal into the pockets in the block above the pan rail. They moved the intake lifter a full 100 thou because nothing in the rules said they couldn’t. When this put the pushrod right up against its guide through the cylinder head they (John Medlen) explained that this is to prevent deflection of the pushrod, never mind that no such consideration is given to the exhaust side. Holes in the block pan rail were relocated to provide for mounting a Ford oil pan. Apparently this is to promote better sealing, whilst the unmolested HEMI® has no sealing problem in this area. The block is externally ribbed to suggest an all-new-engine never mind that all of the engine internals are dimensionally the same HEMI® pieces and will interchange.

There are a select few external differences to distinguish the BOSS 500 in an attempt to keep it exclusive unto itself, like the rocker covers for example, and the normal cut-out in the flange for the starter has been eliminated for a more symmetrical bolt pattern to attach the block to the clutch bellhousing, but the parent architecture is indelible.
In spite of the pretty blue paint the BOSS 500 is a Mopar® style HEMI® through and through.
Cumminsturbo

Frankfort, KY

#3047 Jul 30, 2013
Dodge hands down they were the first to come out with a fourwheel drive and they last forever me and my buddy tried to blow up an old 225 slant six we did everything short of drain the oil the old power wagons are beasts they will out pull anything just about Chevys 1 tons are pretty damn good trucks to if you have a 292 straight six and a 4 speed bulldog with 1 ton axles it will last forever love the old 292's so Chevy and dodge hands down ford just dosnt have much goin for them
Cumminsturbo

Frankfort, KY

#3048 Jul 30, 2013
Dodge girl wrote:
Helllllooo are you all retarded? You can't just go by "well my car runs fine so clearly ___ is better."
First off, Chevy disqualified themselves the moment they decided to put duramax engines in their trucks. Anyone and everyone who truly knows about trucks know they are gonna be shit outta luck using a silverado for hauling frequently. It's PROVEN to be the weakest engine on the market after the dodge and ford engine.
Now with that said, in early 2000 ford had some major difficulties with their engine because it was not built properly and (being fords fault) they did not fix it, hoping to make money off the faulty engines when the buyers' warranties expired. Now that they went through a major lawsuit they are back on track with one of the strongest hauling machines on the market.
But, who takes the cake? DODGE! With the Cummins engine, being the strongest, fastest engine of all 3 (basically spitting on chevy's duramax) it is the truck to beat. The mileage is also descent, at about 18-20 mpg. The only problem you may find is small transmission issues if you don't take proper care of your baby. Aside from that, it's going to be a buy you won't ever regret.
Take it from me, I haul horses for a living, I see these trucks in action every year. It's not because my dually is great, it just happens to outperform any Chevy. And when you bring it down to the last details, ford is a close second.
I'm a girl and I know more than half the men on here, get with it boys.
I'm not saying your wrong on ford and there engines but cummins isn't the fastest it's a straight six a duramax will have not hp then a cummins almost always but the cummins is gonna have 10 times more low end torque them ford or Chevy and the tranny issues arnt realy takin care of it or not its faulty on dodges part the sensors go out but this is only for the auto trannys if you get a 5 speed or 6 speed your fine
mustang

Ashburn, VA

#3049 Jul 31, 2013
The parts will not innerchange, the heads are designed different to. Plus like I said, a ford engine had Hemi style heads 4-5 before dodge mopar put hemi heads on any of the cars. So mopar copycated a ford design. Boss 500 is all ford design. All the engines are 500 cubic inches plus.mopars and Ford's boss engines. They changed the insides you named, made new designed heads.so what's mopar about it? All the engines have aftermarket upgraded parts, better cranks, thicker stronger blocks. On mopar and ford engines, ford changed parts on inside and made new designed heads, so what's mopar about it? Plus hemi heads where on a ford engine before mopar ever had them. So mopar is really copying a ford engine. Nice try, the all ford designed boss 500 engine
mustang

Ashburn, VA

#3050 Jul 31, 2013
Plus ford 427 cammer engine was faster than a mopar hemi, the underrated mopar hemi made over 500hp.same as a regular 427 sideoiler ford engine and the boss 429 engine.But the 427 ford cammer engines made 657hp from factory was highest hp engine non supercharged or turbocharged from any of big 3. Plus you said it best when you said Keith black changed the block.which added stronger thicker metal, stronger aftermarket crank,bigger higher lift aftermarket cam.punched block to 500 cubic inches, so what's mopar about engine? Ford went in and changed spacers, made new heads which will not bolt to a mopar engine or work on it. So yes it is a all ford designed engine. In fact I read where ford and force wanted to build a whole new block and all,nhra would"nt let them. The engines now are as much ford as they are mopar. Both having thicker punch to 500 inch stronger metal blocks. Ford changed the parts you named and made the new better head, ford design, New and old. So yes the boss 500 is all ford designed engine.
Paradigm

Ottawa, Canada

#3051 Jul 31, 2013
ALL of the BOSS 500 specific data in post 3045 originates IN HARD COPY from JOHN MEDLEN!

Absolutely everything that was done to the BOSS 500 was done under the auspices of John Medlen.

All of John Medlen's oral utterings through interview concerning the BOSS 500 are retrievable in hard copy and I have done exactly that.

Even John Medlen cannot deny or ARGUE any of the content of post 3045 for the simple reason
that John Medlen dictated all of that information himself while it was physically recorded; in other
words, it was all written down.

The Fraud/Farce Boss 500 is a poorly disguised, cosmetically altered, customized Chrysler style HEMI® that has no Ford parts or Ford engineering in it. There is no Ford power in NHRA Top Fuel and there hasn't been for over forty years.
mustang

Ashburn, VA

#3052 Jul 31, 2013
The only fraud is mopar"s copycating ford to begin with with ford engine having hemi heads on a engine 4-5 years before mopar ever had them on there engines. The boss 500 is a ford engine. Parts changed on inside that they added, that were parts numbers in ford catalog that you even posted on. All new ford designed ford hemi heads that won't bolt up, or match up with the mopar engines. The only thing mopar has to do with there engines are the heads. The block, crank,rods, pistons, cams are aftermarket. The blocks are made 500 cubic inches made by machine to start with.Ford went through made new bearings,oiling system, and more and new designed heads. Which won't match up or bolt to a mopar hemi engine. So yes boss500engine is all. Ford designed engine
CycloneSpoiler

Bracebridge, Canada

#3053 Jul 31, 2013
Paradigm. There's no point in knocking yourself out trying to convince mustang of anything. He's made up his mind that he's right and nothing that you ever say will change that.
I'm quite capable of making up my own mind about this and from what you've said in your last few posts I am convinced that John Force's fueler engine is a Chrysler copy.
I have had my own suspicions about this for a while. I will forward what you have written to others whom I know are open to the truth and connected to do something about it. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease"!
Thankyou for a most revealing look at the Boss 500 and more importantly the blatent skullduggery with all concerned. Fraud you say? Yes it is.
mustang

Ashburn, VA

#3054 Jul 31, 2013
Wow, make new screenname and agree with yourself,lol. I pointed out the truth.the guy named Ellis was going to his buddy over a year ago, that worked at Chrysler to sue force and ford. Never heard anything about it again. Can't sue someone for making changes to a engine with ford parts. Funny you yell fraud, when ford engines had hemi combustion chambers in head before mopar did. My last post pretty much explained the whole deal.I proved I'm right, by sites I posted pages ago.you still haven't explain why all the drag racing sites and other sites are lieing as you say? Why they would post lies to hurt them, to help ford out?how does lieing help there cause? When they change parts on inside you can find in ford catalog,make new heads that won't work are even bolt to a mopar hemi engine. How you get its a mopar? That's like a nascar engine, they say pistons, rods, crank, and cams will work in all three blocks now.same as funnycar& top fuel engines. Nothing is mopar on eengines. Keith black machined thicker,stronger 500+ cubic inch blocks.bigger lift aftermarket cams, stronger bigger cranks aftermarket, aftermarket pistons, aftermarket rods. Nothing mopar mopar about it.Ford and team force changed bearings, oiling system,and so on.made brand new designed heads from ford and force blueprints,that I repeat,that won't work,match up, or bolt on mopar dodges funnycar engine. So yes it is a all new ford designed engine
Paradigm

Ottawa, Canada

#3055 Aug 1, 2013
The stupid, mouthy "thing" thinks I drove 430 miles to make a "new screenname" and post to "it".
Oxygen wasting mud-monkey. Imbecile!!
mustang

Wilkesboro, NC

#3056 Aug 1, 2013
Lol , mad bro? Truth hurts huh
ellis

College Station, TX

#3057 Aug 1, 2013
CycloneSpoiler wrote:
Paradigm. There's no point in knocking yourself out trying to convince mustang of anything. He's made up his mind that he's right and nothing that you ever say will change that.
I'm quite capable of making up my own mind about this and from what you've said in your last few posts I am convinced that John Force's fueler engine is a Chrysler copy.
I have had my own suspicions about this for a while. I will forward what you have written to others whom I know are open to the truth and connected to do something about it. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease"!
Thankyou for a most revealing look at the Boss 500 and more importantly the blatent skullduggery with all concerned. Fraud you say? Yes it is.
Check out this that I wrote and posted.
http://www.thehemi.com/forums/viewtopic.php...

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