SoCal Driver Sues Honda Over Low Hybrid Mileage

“If you bunch short trips into longer trips you'll do better because every time the engine starts and warms up the mpg goes down 50 percent of any posted number.”

A Southern California driver has filed what could be the first class-action lawsuit against a hybrid carmaker over mileage claims. via Cbs5.com

[AVAGOVFFV]

Another dumbass......... We wonder why our insurance premiums are so high, thank you scumbag.

[Angelo]

Sue sue sue... that's all anyone thinks about if something isn't to their liking! To correct your correction, THE EPA PROVIDES THE NUMBERS TO THE AUTO MANUFACTURERS! Both Honda and Toyota actually thought the numbers were a bit high and wanted to lower them on the Civic Hybrid and the Prius, but they couldn't because they are required to put on the sticker what the EPA gives them. Since Toyota couldn't do anything about it, they rolled with the numbers for their biggest ad campaign "Prius, Yes - 60MPG city". There is a large community of hybrid owners who get 5% to 30% OVER the previous EPA ratings. With the new, lower EPA ratings, they are now getting 8% to 40% over!

I've owned a 2007 Civic Hybrid since April 2007. I have 6,500 miles on the car. My last 8 tanks average 51.8 mpg (I exclude the first 3 tanks for learning curves and testing driving styles, but if you want to know, my 11 tank average is 47.1 mpg). I have calculated what I would have spent on fuel with my 2000 Chevy Cavalier and estimated to the end of the year based on 15,000 miles, and I will save over $1,200 a year, not to mention over 350 gallons of fuel! It will take me 2 years to make up the $2,400 premium for the hybrid over the standard civic (less time if gas goes back over $3.00/gal). I plan on having this car for at least 8-10 years so it's money in the bank for me! Don't forget about the reduced maintenance schedule as well, like oil changes every 7,500 to 10,000 miles versus 3,000 to 5,000 miles on other cars (2 oil changes a year vs 4-5!).

Just a note about the new EPA tests/numbers - it's all relative. The higher a vehicle's previous EPA numbers, the higher percentage of a drop it will have with the new, lower EPA numbers. Since the Prius and Civic Hybrids are up at 49-60 mpg with old tests, new tests will drop them 15-20%. Fuel efficient diesels will also see a 10-15% drop as well (the 2006 VW New Beetle Diesel went from 37/44 to 31/40 - average 40 mpg down to 34 mpg). If a vehicle is only 18-23 mpg, they will only see a 3-5% drop say to 15-21 mpg. And another thing... these new numbers don't make the hybrid (or any vehicle) worse because the vechicle hasn't changed, only the tests. Anyone knows that any vehicle driven at 60 mph will get better gas mileage than that same vehicle driven at 80 mph! However everyone feels they have to drive 75-80 mph on the freeway. Check your current vehicle's mpg over the next couple of tanks and see how far below the [previous] EPA numbers for your vehicle you are and I'm sure you will be surprised you're falling way short! Everyone blames the car instead of the driver(first and foremost), as well as terrain, weather, and all the other factors that affect mpg numbers! Hybrids are not miracle cars that will give you phenomenal mileage without the driver learning how to truly drive it (or any other car) efficiently, which also leads to driving safer! Food for thought people... don't bash hybrids if you don't truly know about them! I'm getting 600+ miles a tank on 12 gallons... can you come anywhere close in your Hummer, SUV, or even your compact car?

[wendy davis]

I owned a 2003 civic hybrid. At 16000 the transmission had problems. The car was bucking and frequently not starting. The dealership said it was probably some computer problem and put me off until ofcourse the warranty ran out. I had better mileage on the 96 civic that we previously owned. The dealership behaved very badly,but did recommend we ditch it as soon as possible. What a nightmare we had with that car. Honda denies that the civic hybrids have transmission problems even though owners all over the web are complaining. We took quite a loss for it and got a Toyota. Thank god, Now atleast I know my car is going to start in the morning.

[Fearful Ralph]

Angelo wrote:

Sue sue sue... that's all anyone thinks about if something isn't to their liking! To correct your correction, THE EPA PROVIDES THE NUMBERS TO THE AUTO MANUFACTURERS! Both Honda and Toyota actually thought the numbers were a bit high and wanted to lower them on the Civic Hybrid and the Prius, but they couldn't because they are required to put on the sticker what the EPA gives them. Since Toyota couldn't do anything about it, they rolled with the numbers for their biggest ad campaign "Prius, Yes - 60MPG city". There is a large community of hybrid owners who get 5% to 30% OVER the previous EPA ratings. With the new, lower EPA ratings, they are now getting 8% to 40% over!
I've owned a 2007 Civic Hybrid since April 2007. I have 6,500 miles on the car. My last 8 tanks average 51.8 mpg (I exclude the first 3 tanks for learning curves and testing driving styles, but if you want to know, my 11 tank average is 47.1 mpg). Anyone knows that any vehicle driven at 60 mph will get better gas mileage than that same vehicle driven at 80 mph! However everyone feels they have to drive 75-80 mph on the freeway. Check your current vehicle's mpg over the next couple of tanks and see how far below the [previous] EPA numbers for your vehicle you are and I'm sure you will be surprised you're falling way short! Everyone blames the car instead of the driver(first and foremost), as well as terrain, weather, and all the other factors that affect mpg numbers! Hybrids are not miracle cars that will give you phenomenal mileage without the driver learning how to truly drive it (or any other car) efficiently, which also leads to driving safer! Food for thought people... don't bash hybrids if you don't truly know about them! I'm getting 600+ miles a tank on 12 gallons... can you come anywhere close in your Hummer, SUV, or even your compact car?

I know that one is supposed to get better mileage at 40, at least in American cars, than at 75 but in all my decades of driving I've only had one car that did.
When the 55 mph fiasco was put in I found that my 65 Chrysler 300 convertible went from 13.1 to 13.2 mpg by changing from 75 to 55. Of course it was a convertible and they are notorious gas hogs due to the drag of that canvas top. In comparison my 63 Imperial got over 17 mpg at 75 and 15 in city and it was over a half ton heavier with a 50 cubic inch larger motor but was a hardtop.
My Saab Sonnet got 35.9 on a trip that we drove 1:30 at 95 mph, red line, and then 65 miles on a divided highway with traffic lights (70 mph, stop, then wide open throttle to 70 to keep from being run over) and then another 147 miles on freeway at 75. At 55 that same car registered 28 to 30 mpg. After everybody started going 70+ the mileage climbed back up to 32 to 33 mpg with no tuneup in between.
Even my 8 ton Chevrolet Motorhome got better mileage at 70 to 75 than at 55 to 60. In this case it was due to the transmission constantly dropping down a gear even though there was no perceivable grade. By the way, I get over 600 miles on a tank.
I could almost make a case for my Honda Accord Hybrid getting better mileage as the first trip I took with it I drove slower than usual and got 30.9 mpg but the real reason for the better mileage was I was doing a modified economy run. I say modified because although I drove as if I had a blistered foot and the accelerator was a bed of nails and I kept the green 3 cylinder light on I did not pump the tires up to over 65 psi. Driving this car normally I get about 28 trip and 25 mixed which compares to my 1988 Integra at 34 to 38 trip and 32 mixed.