Right Electric Range For A Plug-In Hy...

Right Electric Range For A Plug-In Hybrid: Is Lower Better?

There are 40 comments on the GreenCarReports story from Jan 25, 2013, titled Right Electric Range For A Plug-In Hybrid: Is Lower Better?. In it, GreenCarReports reports that:

John is Senior Editor for High Gear Media. In addition to news coverage and new car reviews, John creates and oversees all editorial for High Gear's... More But if you want to drive most of your miles on electricity, and still have the security of a combustion engine as a backup for long-distance travel, the answer may vary.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at GreenCarReports.

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Solarman

Indio, CA

#1 Jan 26, 2013
The industry is now talking, or spinning MPGe. Miles per gallon equivalent. Physics is still physics. You will have forces required to move a specific mass against forces that impede movement. The daily drive of the individual will determine how much battery will be needed to get to a particular destination. When the industry starts using MPGe to promote their product, they will inevitably fail when the consumer realizes their particular daily drive doesn't give them the range they thought they would see. If your daily drive is a jaunt on a freeway for say 25 miles one way, will require more KWh than 25 miles on surface streets under 50MPH. What is needed is around 75KWh of battery storage for all around all electric mileage and performance. Now, the problem becomes as to HOW you charge a 75KWh battery pack for use overnight?
No2oil

Beaverton, OR

#2 Feb 8, 2013
There is one manufacturer today who has got it right when comes to electric and electric drive assist vehicles today, GM. The Chevy Volt and it's luxury cousin, Cadillac's ELR electric drivetrain offer the perfect balance between technology limits and cost performance. As plug-in electric drive vehicles with an on- board range-extending gas powered generators these vehicles are highly range competitive with conventional powered competitors and limited range EVs. Further, the average American daily commute is under the 40 miles and within the all electric battery range of the Volt/ELR.

Many Volt owners have reported never needing to visit a gas-station to re-fuel with daily charging, and those owners with longer daily drives are reporting gas-assisted mileage averaging 35-50 mpg, and a combined battery + range extending gas assist mileage exceeding 150 mpg.
iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#3 Feb 23, 2013
Any owner of any electric car knows the true formula for figuring out your equivalent mpg.

1. Find out what your average cost per kilowatt hour is. by simply dividing the cost of electricity by the number of kilowatt hours used. Example. 700 kwh's @$80 = 11.4 cents per kwh.$80 / 700 = 11.4.

2. In the case of the Chevy Volt, it takes 13 kwh's to charge the car from a full discharge. Multiply your cost per kwh by 13 and you have exactly what it will cost to fully charge the Volt. GM uses the national average for a kwh (12.5 cents) to advertise charging costs. Using that, it would cost the average electricity customer $1.63 to charge a Volt.

3. Average range for a Volt is 40 miles. I get 36 in cold weather and 47 in warm weather. Divide $1.63 by 40 and you get the average cost per mile, nationwide. 4 cents per mile.

4. Divide 4 cents into the current cost of a gallon of gas and you get your equivalent mpg. 100 mpg at $4 per gallon. 4 cents per mile divided into $4 per gallon.

Simple.

My charging costs equate to 2.7 cents per mile. Current cost for a gallon of gas in CA is at $4.30. That means my equivalent mpg at current gas rates is 159 mpg. My charging costs will let me drive 159 miles for the current cost of a gallon of gas.

Simple.

I suppose that is why Volt owners are the happiest car owners on the planet .... two years in a row.

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iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#4 Feb 25, 2013
What's the matter Des Plaines. Don't want to comment? You think I don't know that you are "judging"? You didn't know those facts about charging costs either, did you? You see ... you have more information on an electric car for when you buy your Tesla S.

If your parents start charging you rent, it will take you quite a while.

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The Profiler

United States

#5 Feb 26, 2013
I've been reading through these forums and my conclusion is, "iluvmyVolt" is either a paid shill for the Chevy Volt or just a dunce who is trying to rationalize his decision to buy an overpriced gimmick, a green status symbol that is anything but green. He bends, twists, and throws around the BS, but if you read his posts his numbers don't jive!
iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#6 Feb 27, 2013
The Profiler wrote:
I've been reading through these forums and my conclusion is, "iluvmyVolt" is either a paid shill for the Chevy Volt or just a dunce who is trying to rationalize his decision to buy an overpriced gimmick, a green status symbol that is anything but green. He bends, twists, and throws around the BS, but if you read his posts his numbers don't jive!
16 months of ownership. 6 gallons of gas purchased.$270 in charging costs. All of us Volt owners feel the same way about our cars.

You're just pissed because you opened your mouth before you checked out these cars and now your pride won't let you check it out. You would rather spend $75 on gas, twice a week than admit you're wrong.

Too bad.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/cars/T009-C0...

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iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#7 Feb 27, 2013
And by the way, Kiplinger is one of the most trusted financial companies in the world. They are renowned for their honesty and knowledge.

The Volt recoups it's cost in 5 to 6 years without the credit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiplinger

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iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#8 Feb 27, 2013
The Profiler wrote:
I've been reading through these forums and my conclusion is, "iluvmyVolt" is either a paid shill for the Chevy Volt or just a dunce who is trying to rationalize his decision to buy an overpriced gimmick, a green status symbol that is anything but green. He bends, twists, and throws around the BS, but if you read his posts his numbers don't jive!
And please, answer this with some of my numbers that just don't add up. I will respond with links and or video proof. Just like I have for the other haters here.

It really isn't much fun anymore. Last year this time, there were about 25 - 30 haters I had fun with. Now there are only 3 of you.

I like you though.

Awaiting your proof of my numbers no jiving. Good luck.

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The Profiler

Florham Park, NJ

#9 Feb 28, 2013
iluvmyVolt wrote:
<quoted text>
And please, answer this with some of my numbers that just don't add up. I will respond with links and or video proof. Just like I have for the other haters here.
It really isn't much fun anymore. Last year this time, there were about 25 - 30 haters I had fun with. Now there are only 3 of you.
I like you though.
Awaiting your proof of my numbers no jiving. Good luck.
The big lie #1 11.4 cents per KW, what about the cost of a charging station? Even at 11.4 cents per KW a convention gasoline power car getting 40 MPG, and costing half the price of the Volt is a much better deal. Keep the BS flowing.
iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#10 Feb 28, 2013
The Profiler wrote:
<quoted text>
The big lie #1 11.4 cents per KW, what about the cost of a charging station? Even at 11.4 cents per KW a convention gasoline power car getting 40 MPG, and costing half the price of the Volt is a much better deal. Keep the BS flowing.
My flowing bs, part 1

Santa Clara, CA residential rates: The highest is 10.5 cents per kwh. That is after 300 kwh's. I very rarely get into the 9 cent per kwh bracket, but I am going to be generous to you and say that my charging costs average 9.5 cents per kwh. My average electric bill is $60.$40 in summer, 80 in winter. That includes my Volt being charged. So my Volt not only saves me about $100 per month on gas ... it pays for my electric bill .... as it is plugged in!!! What a wonder!!!

Here are the rates ...(note, I am supplying links ... not spew)

https://siliconvalleypower.com/Modules/ShowDo...

What charging station? The Volt comes equiped with a charger.

40 mpg is a gas hog. Even if I only ran gas only, I would get 43 mpg. Mpgomatic reviewed the Volt and got 43 mpg gas and 40 electric.

Go to 1:11 for proof.



mpgomatic has been comparing cars for years before the Volt was produced. They may even have your car there.

Very few cars get 40 mpg. Even the Prius has trouble making that, and they are gas hogs compared to the Volt. I get 125 mpg + in the city .... easily.

I love it when someone says their car gets 40 mpg on the freeway but I see them buzz by at 80 mph. Yeah, right.

The math:

The battery for the Volt is a 16 kw battery. It is buffered so that only 10.3 kwh's can be used. Now, I would use that number because that would be to my benefit. But I am not used to spewing or lying. The fact is, it takes 13 kwh's to charge the Volt from a full discharge.

Go to the headline "Drivetrain" for proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

I average 40 miles (again generous because I average 42 in spring and fall and 46 in summer. I have a Video on YouTube that shows a 50 mile range should you want to see it. Just holla and I'll send you the link)

Current gasoline price in CA is $4.25 per gallon (again, being generous to you)

13 kwhs to charge X 9.5 cents per kwh =$1.235 per charge.
$1.235 / 42 miles per charge =$0.029 per mile.
$4.25 (cost of 1 gal. of gas)/$0.029 (cost per mile to charge)= 146 miles I can drive for the cost of 1 gallon of gas.
146 mpg.

All of that with numbers that are not really true. I actually get better mpg because the numbers I used were being generous to you.

Once again. The very well respected Kiplinger Group crunched the numbers and said that the Volt will recoup it's extra cost in 5 to 6 years compared to a like optioned car. That is without the credit. Add the credit, and it takes 4 to 5 years. They take into account all factors including depreciation, which is not much.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/cars/T009-C0...

Who is Kiplinger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiplinger

Kiplinger has been comparing operating costs of cars for many years before the Volt was produced.

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iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#11 Feb 28, 2013
The Profiler wrote:
<quoted text>
The big lie #1 11.4 cents per KW, what about the cost of a charging station? Even at 11.4 cents per KW a convention gasoline power car getting 40 MPG, and costing half the price of the Volt is a much better deal. Keep the BS flowing.
Part 2:

National Automobile Dealers Association says the Volt retains almost all it's value after 1 year

http://www.plugincars.com/nada-says-nissan-le...

Here's more bs for you concerning operating costs. My brakes will last about 150,000 because the brake pads are not used to stop the Volt down to 3 mph. That is when the pads take over. That is what regenerative braking is. Just in case you didn't know. After 16 months of ownership, I barely have any brake dust on my rims.

Go to the headline "Sounds Fancy, But It Mostly Isn't" for an explanation of how the Volt is stopped. This is from Car & Driver.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2011-chev...

The oil in the generator doesn't have to be changed until 40% oil life left. I have driven 10,000 and my oil life is 95% I will change it at 2 years though. Compare that to every 4,000 miles for an ICE car.

No transmission to service. About 10 moving parts in the planetary gear.

About 5 moving parts in the electric motor. Compare that to the thousands of moving parts in an ICE. Electric motors are much cheaper to work on and to replace.

The batteries are doing so well that in CA and NY, they have actually extended the warranty on them to 150,000 / 10 years. My battery is actually giving me 2 more miles range 16 months after I purchased the car. That is called conditioning. If a Volt owner reads their manual and follows the hints on charging and driving, the battery life is extended for more than the 250,000 that they are expected to be fully operational. Even at 250,000, they will have 70% battery life.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/15/gm-and-abb...

My return for the first 12 months was $8,500.
$7,500 for the credit.
$1,000 for savings on gas ($1,275 in gas minus $260 chargins costs)

Here is a little video I made for you.

Notice that my range for gas is 77 miles. I keep it at around 80 miles (1.8 gals.) to keep the weight down so my electric mpg is better. My dealership filled my gas tank for free once when I went to a Volt owners workshop there. Argh!!!! Who needs free gas?

Enjoy the video.



I know you don't want to do the math, so I did it for you. I get 360 mpg if you don't include charging costs. With charging costs, that comes down to about 125 mpg for the life time of my car. Crappy, huh?

I also know that you don't like truth. You probably won't visit any of the links. I just put them here to show you that I don't spew, unlike 3 fellas on this thread.

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iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#12 Feb 28, 2013
The Profiler wrote:
<quoted text>
The big lie #1 11.4 cents per KW, what about the cost of a charging station? Even at 11.4 cents per KW a convention gasoline power car getting 40 MPG, and costing half the price of the Volt is a much better deal. Keep the BS flowing.
Woops ... put part 2 first ...

Part 1,

Santa Clara, CA residential rates: The highest is 10.5 cents per kwh. That is after 300 kwh's. I very rarely get into the 9 cent per kwh bracket, but I am going to be generous to you and say that my charging costs average 9.5 cents per kwh. My average electric bill is $60.$40 in summer, 80 in winter. That includes my Volt being charged. So my Volt not only saves me about $100 per month on gas ... it pays for my electric bill .... as it is plugged in!!! What a wonder!!!

Here are the rates ...(note, I am supplying links ... not spew)

https://siliconvalleypower.com/Modules/ShowDo...

What charging station? The Volt comes equiped with a charger.

40 mpg is a gas hog. Even if I only ran gas only, I would get 43 mpg. Mpgomatic reviewed the Volt and got 43 mpg gas and 40 electric.

Go to 1:11 for proof.



mpgomatic has been comparing cars for years before the Volt was produced. They may even have your car there.

Very few cars get 40 mpg. Even the Prius has trouble making that, and they are gas hogs compared to the Volt. I get 125 mpg + in the city .... easily.

I love it when someone says their car gets 40 mpg on the freeway but I see them buzz by at 80 mph. Yeah, right.

The math:

The battery for the Volt is a 16 kw battery. It is buffered so that only 10.3 kwh's can be used. Now, I would use that number because that would be to my benefit. But I am not used to spewing or lying. The fact is, it takes 13 kwh's to charge the Volt from a full discharge.

Go to the headline "Drivetrain" for proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

I average 40 miles (again generous because I average 42 in spring and fall and 46 in summer. I have a Video on YouTube that shows a 50 mile range should you want to see it. Just holla and I'll send you the link)

Current gasoline price in CA is $4.25 per gallon (again, being generous to you)

13 kwhs to charge X 9.5 cents per kwh =$1.235 per charge.
$1.235 / 42 miles per charge =$0.029 per mile.
$4.25 (cost of 1 gal. of gas)/$0.029 (cost per mile to charge)= 146 miles I can drive for the cost of 1 gallon of gas.
146 mpg.

All of that with numbers that are not really true. I actually get better mpg because the numbers I used were being generous to you.

Once again. The very well respected Kiplinger Group crunched the numbers and said that the Volt will recoup it's extra cost in 5 to 6 years compared to a like optioned car. That is without the credit. Add the credit, and it takes 4 to 5 years. They take into account all factors including depreciation, which is not much.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/cars/T009-C0...

Who is Kiplinger?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiplinger

Kiplinger has been comparing operating costs of cars for many years before the Volt was produced.

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iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#13 Feb 28, 2013
Sheeeesh ....

Part 2,

Anyway ... enjoy the video.

National Automobile Dealers Association says the Volt retains almost all it's value after 1 year

http://www.plugincars.com/nada-says-nissan-le...

Here's more bs for you concerning operating costs. My brakes will last about 150,000 because the brake pads are not used to stop the Volt down to 3 mph. That is when the pads take over. That is what regenerative braking is. Just in case you didn't know. After 16 months of ownership, I barely have any brake dust on my rims.

Go to the headline "Sounds Fancy, But It Mostly Isn't" for an explanation of how the Volt is stopped. This is from Car & Driver.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2011-chev...

The oil in the generator doesn't have to be changed until 40% oil life left. I have driven 10,000 and my oil life is 95% I will change it at 2 years though. Compare that to every 4,000 miles for an ICE car.

No transmission to service. About 10 moving parts in the planetary gear.

About 5 moving parts in the electric motor. Compare that to the thousands of moving parts in an ICE. Electric motors are much cheaper to work on and to replace.

The batteries are doing so well that in CA and NY, they have actually extended the warranty on them to 150,000 / 10 years. My battery is actually giving me 2 more miles range 16 months after I purchased the car. That is called conditioning. If a Volt owner reads their manual and follows the hints on charging and driving, the battery life is extended for more than the 250,000 that they are expected to be fully operational. Even at 250,000, they will have 70% battery life.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/15/gm-and-abb...

My return for the first 12 months was $8,500.
$7,500 for the credit.
$1,000 for savings on gas ($1,275 in gas minus $260 chargins costs)

Here is a little video I made for you.

Notice that my range for gas is 77 miles. I keep it at around 80 miles (1.8 gals.) to keep the weight down so my electric mpg is better. My dealership filled my gas tank for free once when I went to a Volt owners workshop there. Argh!!!! Who needs free gas?

Enjoy the video.



I know you don't want to do the math, so I did it for you. I get 360 mpg if you don't include charging costs. With charging costs, that comes down to about 125 mpg for the life time of my car. Crappy, huh?

I also know that you don't like truth. You probably won't visit any of the links. I just put them here to show you that I

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The Profiler

Florham Park, NJ

#14 Feb 28, 2013
iluvmyVolt your nose gets longer with every post. Your delusional obsession with that dopey car is sick; get help!
iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#15 Mar 1, 2013
The Profiler wrote:
iluvmyVolt your nose gets longer with every post. Your delusional obsession with that dopey car is sick; get help!
You don't like links to real facts? You don't like the "BS numbers" (your words) that my Volt's computer screen showed you?

You are the one that said I was throwing bs numbers up. I asked you to give me some numbers you were referring to and I sent you links proving the numbers.

That dopey car is the most awarded car in history. It is the first American car to win the European Car Of The Year Award. The Society Of Automotive Engineers named it Best Engineered Car.

And ...... it has saved Volt owners over 7,500,000 gallons of gas.

http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.ht...

What you people can't stand is that Volt Owners L-O-V-E their car. We may have an obsession, but it's not delusional. I owned 2 beautiful Cadillac Sevilles and I loved those cars. They were my babies. I wouldn't trade both of them for my Volt. Period.

Even the haters have to admit to the truth once in a while. Fox News named the Volt the most important American car built in the last 25 years.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/07/04/pat...

Anxiously awaiting more "bs numbers" that you say I put up.

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Volts for Dolts

Newtown, CT

#16 Mar 1, 2013
iluvmyVolt wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't like links to real facts? You don't like the "BS numbers" (your words) that my Volt's computer screen showed you?
You are the one that said I was throwing bs numbers up. I asked you to give me some numbers you were referring to and I sent you links proving the numbers.
That dopey car is the most awarded car in history. It is the first American car to win the European Car Of The Year Award. The Society Of Automotive Engineers named it Best Engineered Car.
And ...... it has saved Volt owners over 7,500,000 gallons of gas.
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.ht...
What you people can't stand is that Volt Owners L-O-V-E their car. We may have an obsession, but it's not delusional. I owned 2 beautiful Cadillac Sevilles and I loved those cars. They were my babies. I wouldn't trade both of them for my Volt. Period.
Even the haters have to admit to the truth once in a while. Fox News named the Volt the most important American car built in the last 25 years.
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/07/04/pat...
Anxiously awaiting more "bs numbers" that you say I put up.
Just keep repeating the same old BS; nobody take any of the propaganda seriously.
Volts for Dolts

Newtown, CT

#17 Mar 1, 2013
Do the Math

Add it up: The 2013 Chevy Cruze — which is basically a Volt without the electricity — costs $25,140 comparably equipped to our Volt test car. Comparing its 33mpg EPA mileage to 65mpg with the Volt, it's going to take a long time to recover the extra cost of the Volt at current fuel prices of about $3.30/gallon. Gas for the Cruze would cost you around $1,200 per year (driving 12,000 miles), and the gas/electricity equivalent for the Volt would cost about half that, around $609 per year. You'd have to drive the Volt for more than 17 years to make up that $10,380 price difference. You're going to have to be committed to energy independence and the idea of an electric car to make this worth it. But get this: If you only drive short distances using the electric motor like we did, it could take you less than 10 years to save that extra $10K.

So the bottom line is the Volt is a $40,000 local errand runner. The truth is you can't run the Volt hard for long distances.
Volts for Dolts

Newtown, CT

#18 Mar 1, 2013
iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#19 Mar 3, 2013
Volts for Dolts wrote:
Do the Math
Add it up: The 2013 Chevy Cruze — which is basically a Volt without the electricity — costs $25,140 comparably equipped to our Volt test car. short distances using the electric motor like we did, it could take you less than 10 years to save that extra $10K.
So the bottom line is the Volt is a $40,000 local errand runner. The truth is you can't run the Volt hard for long distances.
I don't need to do the math. Although I did and I am going to save $13,500 in 5 years.

The world renowned and respected group, Kiplinger, has been crunching numbers for operrerating costs for cars for years. Long before these cars came out. They state that the Volt will recoup it's extra cost in 5 to 6 years against the Cruze in 5 years. Without the credit. Add the credit and you recoup within 4 to 5 years.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/cars/T009-C0...

My cost is under $29,800 at this time. That includes all gas and charging costs. Using your numbers, a Cruze would be at $26,000 already for a year and a half. That leaves 3 1/2 years for me to make up $3,800.

However, your numbers are flawed. The EPA's numbers are low ball for all electrics because they use dyno's to test cars. Regenerative actions can not occur on a dyno. As stated before, all Volt owners are getting about 43 mpg in gas mode and averate 40 miles per charge in electric.

Mpgomatic drove the Volt for 600 miles and achieved the above numbers. They have been testing cars for years. Long before the Volt came along. They have no agenda.

This is their link. Go to :58 to see the comparison between the EPA numbers and the numbers they observed.

http://www.youtube.com/results...

Most Volt owners drive mainly electric. Although you think we are fools, we are not. We are pretty savvy people, who, in spite of what you think, crunch the numbers first. Savvy people who drive long distances every day don't buy the Volt. It is not for everybody.

But for you to sit there and say that it isn't for me is foolish. I have bought 6 gallons of gas in 16 months. I pay 2.7 cents per mile for charging costs.

Now, go back to your calculator and punch in the numbers from mpgomatic and my numbers and you will see that you are way off.

And by the way,$3.30 per gallon is dream land in CA where most of the Volts are sold. Once again, you use numbers that don't jive with the real world. The cost of gas alone brings your estimate down by about 40%.

You need to stop trusting the haters sites. Some day you will find yourself painted into a corner when gas goes over $5 a gallon because you will have to come down to earth and consider one of these cars. I know you won't consider a Volt because your hate overcomes your logic. But, by then, the 100 mpg Via Motors full sized pick up truck will come down in price and that would be an option. Of course, it is strictly Volt technology.

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iluvmyVolt

Santa Clara, CA

#20 Mar 3, 2013
Volts for Dolts wrote:
Do the Math
Add it up: The 2013 Chevy Cruze — which is basically a Volt without the electricity — costs $25,140 comparably equipped to our Volt test car. Comparing its 33mpg EPA mileage to 65mpg with the Volt, it's going to take a long time to recover the extra cost of the Volt at current fuel prices of about $3.30/gallon. Gas for the Cruze would cost you around $1,200 per year (driving 12,000 miles), and the gas/electricity equivalent for the Volt would cost about half that, around $609 per year. You'd have to drive the Volt for more than 17 years to make up that $10,380 price difference. You're going to have to be committed to energy independence and the idea of an electric car to make this worth it. But get this: If you only drive short distances using the electric motor like we did, it could take you less than 10 years to save that extra $10K.
So the bottom line is the Volt is a $40,000 local errand runner. The truth is you can't run the Volt hard for long distances.
Another thing that is wrong with you math:

I bought my 2012 Volt for $31,800. Not $36,000. So ....

You added $4,200 too much to the Volt's price

2013's are even cheaper because California now has thrown in it's incentive.

Also, the top of the line cruze doesn't have all the options of the Volt. You need to add about $1,800 more to the price of the Cruze. That brings the differance between the two cars down to less than $4,000.

You low ball the mpg. 62% of all Volt owner's miles are electric. You figured 50%

http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.ht...

You state that my charging costs will be $609 per year. My charging costs for 12,000 will be $342. The national average for cost of power is 12.5 cents. At that rate, the cost for charging the Volt for 12,000 is $489.
http://news.consumerreports.org/home/2010/11/...

http://business.time.com/2011/12/16/plugged-i...

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/2...

California hasn't seen $3.30 per gallon in a few years. That is where most Volts are sold.

My maintenance cost is less than half of the Cruze.

You use all the typical hater numbers for the Volt. The differance between Volt owners and haters is that we are not cattle. We don't do what Rush and Fox tell us to do. And just to prove my point, here is a video from about 5 years ago. Fox, Rush and Neal loved the idea of the Volt. They wanted car companies to be forced to build electrics and alternative fueled cars. They wanted tax credits for the electrics and plug in electrics. What's the difference? There is a black democrat in office. Watch this ....


In the end, I have to ask myself ... do I trust Kiplinger or "Volts For Dolts"? After seeing how you tainted the numbers by a big factor, I'll trust Kiplinger.

Here's my numbers ... 10,150 miles at 2.7 cents per mile electric =$283
6 gallons of gas purchased =$24
That's $307 for 10,150 miles driven.

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