1998 Plymouth Neon No fuel getting in...

1998 Plymouth Neon No fuel getting into the fuel rail.

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French

Palo Alto, CA

#1 Dec 22, 2011
My 1998 Plymouth neon turned off on me while pulling out of the driveway.?
It had a 2001 engine put into it 3 days earlier, ran great for those 3 days and one evening I pulled out of the driveway and it "choked" and turned off. At first we thought it was either the timing belt or fuel pump. So i had the dealer run the diag test on it and they said it was the timing belt. They also said the fuel pressure was fine (so not Fuel pump) and it has great compression in the cylinders.The guy that put the engine in provided a 3 month wrrty on it as well but he came back saying the TBelt is fine (there's spark getting to the plugs etc) and he unplugged the fuel line going to the fuel rail and said "see no fuel" its your pump. So I got a NEW FP with housing and replaced it but nothing. We disconnected the line to the fuel rail and still no fuel coming out even though you can hear the fuel pump prime when I turn the ignition. We sprayed starting fluid into the throttle and it starts right up, if we spray into the fuel rail it dosn't turn on. Desperately trying to find out which way to go because what throws us off is the fact no gas comes out of the fuel line when we disconnect it from the fuel rail...weird.
hellcat1988

Ulen, MN

#2 Dec 22, 2011
Check that your fuel pump is actually getting fuel into it to prime. Take the fuel filter off and cycle the key to make it pump. If it does, then it's either your fuel filter is plugged or your fuel line is plugged.
French

Palo Alto, CA

#3 Dec 22, 2011
hellcat1988 wrote:
Check that your fuel pump is actually getting fuel into it to prime. Take the fuel filter off and cycle the key to make it pump. If it does, then it's either your fuel filter is plugged or your fuel line is plugged.
We can hear it prime when we turn the ignition, but we'll lower the car (its jacked up) and test it. Im looking into the uel filter but all I see is a "canister" that accumulates the fuel, nothing that actually filters it..weird. Its a 98 neon with a 2001 engine.
French

Palo Alto, CA

#4 Dec 22, 2011
The guy at the autoparts place said to check the purge valve/selenoid and disconnect it to see if anything shoots out to verify the pumps ok (even though its new) and can possibly be the purge valve thats clogged as well.
hellcat1988

Ulen, MN

#5 Dec 22, 2011
That "canister" is more then likely what the problem is. Disconnect it from the fuel pump and cycle the key. If you get fuel through, then either the canister is hooked up wrong or it's clogged. If the "purge" was clogged, the car wouldn't have run for the 3 days it did. The purge is on the fuel rail and is used to purge air from the fuel system when it's connected. It has a similar valve to a tire that has to be depressed to open and let air/fuel through to purge the system AT the fuel rail. If you're not getting fuel TOO the rail, then it's not the problem.
RC DOHRING

Ceres, CA

#6 Dec 6, 2012
I have a 98 plymouth neon . The car starts but once I give it gas it dies.It idles fine so I know it's getting gas . It almost seems like it's flooding, strong odor of gas when it dies, HELP
hellcat1988

Mahnomen, MN

#7 Dec 8, 2012
RC DOHRING wrote:
I have a 98 plymouth neon . The car starts but once I give it gas it dies.It idles fine so I know it's getting gas . It almost seems like it's flooding, strong odor of gas when it dies, HELP
My mom had the same problem on her neon that I bought her, though it was a 95. My suggestion to you would be to pull the sensor connections with the engine running, one at a time, and rev the engine to see if it still dies. Make sure to be careful of the fans as they can turn on at any time that the car ignition is on. The engine should run no matter what sensors you disconnect, though the check engine light will come on. Make sure that you're only disconnecting the wires for the sensors on the intake manifold and throttle body though.

You'll know when you find what sensor is the problem because either the engine will usually run different. There is a chance that the engine will run the same when you find the bad sensor when you rev it, but you will notice a difference when you rev the engine with a good sensor disconnected. On cars that have it equipped, the most common problem is the Intake Air Temperature sensor. It's on the large tube of the intake after the throttle body. There should be 2 sensors on that part of the intake. The I.A.T. and the M.A.P.

If you disconnect all 4 sensors on the intake and it's still having the problem, the next thing to look at would be the spark plugs and plug wires. Make sure that the plugs are clean and gaped properly, and that the plug wires aren't bleeding voltage before it gets to the plugs.(had that happen to me) If you're sure that those are fine, then the next thing would be to check your fuel system. Make sure that you have pressure to the fuel rail by turning the key to the run position, then shutting it off and checking the pressure bleeder on the fuel rail. If you're getting proper pressure, the gas should shoot out in a strong mist. If it just trickles, then it's not getting enough pressure.

If it is getting good pressure, disconnect the fuel injectors one at a time, just like you did the sensors on the intake and rev the engine again. If it's not the fuel injectors, you'll notice the engine bog down severely each time you disconnect one, then pick back up once it's reconnected. If you try all of that, or aren't sure how to do it, reply to this and I'll put a video on youtube of me showing the diagnostic steps I've described.
Ants95neon

Richmond, VA

#8 Jan 19, 2013
I have a 95 neon and last Sunday it was running fine all day then later that day it started acting like it wanted to cut off (was going 55 mph) when it started and the car was jerking back abs forth as it was doing this. I pulled over and as I started to brake it just died. After my car came to a complete stop I put it in park and attempted to start it. It took about 2 or three times to get it started. When I finally got it started it would run fine. Like nothing was wrong with it. Oh no engine light came on or nothing. But when I put it in drive it would stall out when I try to go. Starts right up then stalls again. I let it set for a few mins and then start again put it in drive it would go alittle further with no problem. Weird uh? Got it towed back home and let it set until I got to it yesterday. When I attempted to put it in my garage after a few min running it stalled out again and took about 5 seconds to start. So my ? Is what could be the problem? I have looked online for these kinds of symptoms and I have narrowed it down to a clogged fuel pump. I have told my friends about it and they all have said the same thing. May I thought it was the torque converter but no codes. Would anyone know the symptoms of the problem. I have bought a new filter for it process if installing it. I have replaced the fuel pump, timing belt, tps, water pump, map sensor, spark plugs and wires. I'm stumped please need help. Could it be the idle air control valve as well? But like I said no codes. It will run fine when in park or reverse. Thanks. P.s my car did stall out a month ago or so at stop light twice at a stop light then never did it again this past Sunday. I think my car was telling me something. Last time I ignore my car again.
hellcat1988

Twin Valley, MN

#9 Jan 19, 2013
Ants95neon wrote:
I have a 95 neon and last Sunday it was running fine all day then later that day it started acting like it wanted to cut off (was going 55 mph) when it started and the car was jerking back abs forth as it was doing this. I pulled over and as I started to brake it just died. After my car came to a complete stop I put it in park and attempted to start it. It took about 2 or three times to get it started. When I finally got it started it would run fine. Like nothing was wrong with it. Oh no engine light came on or nothing. But when I put it in drive it would stall out when I try to go. Starts right up then stalls again. I let it set for a few mins and then start again put it in drive it would go alittle further with no problem. Weird uh? Got it towed back home and let it set until I got to it yesterday. When I attempted to put it in my garage after a few min running it stalled out again and took about 5 seconds to start. So my ? Is what could be the problem? I have looked online for these kinds of symptoms and I have narrowed it down to a clogged fuel pump. I have told my friends about it and they all have said the same thing. May I thought it was the torque converter but no codes. Would anyone know the symptoms of the problem. I have bought a new filter for it process if installing it. I have replaced the fuel pump, timing belt, tps, water pump, map sensor, spark plugs and wires. I'm stumped please need help. Could it be the idle air control valve as well? But like I said no codes. It will run fine when in park or reverse. Thanks. P.s my car did stall out a month ago or so at stop light twice at a stop light then never did it again this past Sunday. I think my car was telling me something. Last time I ignore my car again.
I have had the exact same problem. Mine turned out to be the grounding wire to the main body just forward of the battery. Here's a way to check and see if yours is having the same trouble. There are two ground wires for your car. One to the upper radiator core support, and one to a bolt used to mount the starter. That wire has an eyelet on the end that the bolt passes through. It's unlikely that wire will be your problem. With mine, I tested it by hooking a digital volt meeter from the wire on the core support to the battery. You shouldn't get any voltage through that wire, or at least less than a volt. If you are, then you're more then likely experiencing a loss of ground. I only figured that problem out after it got worse and I started loosing my headlights and dash power at the same time the engine would bog down. It got to the point I could slam my drivers side door and it would cut out for a moment. When I found the problem, I fixed it by replacing the wire to the core support with a pre-made main ground wire from O'rilley's, and then replacing the battery connection end with a marine type clamp connecter with mounted studs that use wing nuts to attach the wires to the studs. I had to make the hole for the radiator core support wire bigger and sand the metal to get a good connection, but it's not hard to do that and a bolt to make the connection is pretty cheap. I cut off the old battery connection from the two factory grounds, then used a crimp on style wire eyelet large enough to fit on the bolts that are on the marine battery connections. Again, that's how I solved the problem with mine. If you test for a problem with the continuity and voltage with both your ground wires and don't have voltage leak and good continuity even at rev, then it could also be your cam position sensor. Those are pretty cheap at O'rilley's as well and pretty strait forward to install.
hellcat1988

Twin Valley, MN

#10 Jan 19, 2013
Ants95neon wrote:
I have a 95 neon and last Sunday it was running fine all day then later that day it started acting like it wanted to cut off (was going 55 mph) when it started and the car was jerking back abs forth as it was doing this. I pulled over and as I started to brake it just died. After my car came to a complete stop I put it in park and attempted to start it. It took about 2 or three times to get it started. When I finally got it started it would run fine. Like nothing was wrong with it. Oh no engine light came on or nothing. But when I put it in drive it would stall out when I try to go. Starts right up then stalls again. I let it set for a few mins and then start again put it in drive it would go alittle further with no problem. Weird uh? Got it towed back home and let it set until I got to it yesterday. When I attempted to put it in my garage after a few min running it stalled out again and took about 5 seconds to start. So my ? Is what could be the problem? I have looked online for these kinds of symptoms and I have narrowed it down to a clogged fuel pump. I have told my friends about it and they all have said the same thing. May I thought it was the torque converter but no codes. Would anyone know the symptoms of the problem. I have bought a new filter for it process if installing it. I have replaced the fuel pump, timing belt, tps, water pump, map sensor, spark plugs and wires. I'm stumped please need help. Could it be the idle air control valve as well? But like I said no codes. It will run fine when in park or reverse. Thanks. P.s my car did stall out a month ago or so at stop light twice at a stop light then never did it again this past Sunday. I think my car was telling me something. Last time I ignore my car again.
P.S. Check your intake air temperature sensor. It won't throw a code with it connected even if it went bad, but I got the same symptoms from a 95 with a bad I.A.T. I disconnected it and replaced the air filter, and the car is still running fine, though the check engine light is on because of the disconnected I.A.T.
Ants95neon

Richmond, VA

#11 Jan 19, 2013
Ok I will check them. So u don't thinks its the torque converter, PCM, spark plug wires, plugs, etc cause it ran fine all day till later that day it weird. My speed sensor went out about a month ago and was told that could be it. I don't know. So it's just a minor thing then uh? U don't think it could be the idle air control valve do ya? Just a wild guess. So it could just be a bad ground wire then? I will try it. I did replace intake air temperature sensor last summer. So it might have went bad already? So I'm guessing this is common on neons?
hellcat1988

Twin Valley, MN

#12 Jan 20, 2013
The torque converter is not connected to the engine's ignition system. The only thing that might cause a problem with it starting is if the ring gear around the edge of the torque converter was damaged, preventing the starter from turning it. It has no electronic functions in and of itself, and wouldn't cause the car to die.

The car's pcm is in the main computer, and those rarely if ever go out, so it's a pretty good bet that it's not the problem. I'd check everything else before I'd bother with it.

The plugs and wires should be checked every 60k miles and replaced as needed even if the car ISN'T having trouble. It's part of normal maintenance.

As far as your speed sensor going out, I doubt that as well. The neons have a common problem with the circuit board on the back vibrating slightly over time and damaging the solder connections where the wire harness connections are. That's an easy fix, but it sounds like someone's already over charged you for it if you took it to a shop.

As far as the Idle air control valve, I doubt it's your trouble. You can take it off and check it's operation as it only seals with a rubber "O" ring. It looks to me like it's either a wax type or solenoid type motor that moves a piston back and forth. If it's a solenoid type, you can move it freely by hand. If it's a wax motor type, then it uses electricity passed through a resistor to heat wax and push the piston in and out just like a thermostat. I wouldn't recommend trying to test it if it is the wax motor type. You can try replacing the idle air control valve with one out of a junkyard car, but I doubt that it's the problem. If you do, make sure that you get one off of a car with the same type of transmission. The manual neon has a smaller throttle body than the automatic.

(By the By, if there are any people reading this wondering how to get more power out of their manual neon, just grab a throttle body off of an automatic. They bolt right up, plug right in, and give better air flow)

The only way that airflow would be the issue that I can think of, is if the air filter is plugged, the throttle position sensor, or the manifold absolute pressure sensor are somehow so dirty they aren't reading correctly. You should get some sort of error code in that instance though, because the neon can set a code for the M.A.P. sensor and throttle position sensor giving conflicting readings.(I know that cause I had that code myself)

I'm not familiar with how often the I.A.T. will go out, as I've only ever come across one neon that actually had one. If you've replaced it recently, then I seriously doubt that it would be the issue here, but you can test it by disconnecting it and waiting to see if the car gives you the same symptoms. I'd wait to do that until just before you have the main car computer checked out though, as it's the second least likely thing to be wrong at this point.
Ants95neon

Richmond, VA

#13 Jan 20, 2013
Thanks wildcat I didn't think it was the PCM either. When I bought my neon it had 116000 miles on it for a 95 not to bad. The guy who had it before me put a lot of money into it and told me that it should last another 10yrs or so. He took care of this car real good but he sold it cause I guess he was having hard times but I got it and I love this car until this past weekend but I still love my neon easy on gas. Ok I will check those things today as soon as I go get my battery from oriellys. I killed it by trying to start it over & over. I guess that's why it would start on min and stall and not the next time cause I drained it. They checked it out last night and said it had only 4 percent charge on it guess because when I kept on trying to start and it wouldn't. Do u think it could be the battery or no? It is a ever start from walmart the second one I have bought from that place. But I don't think it would do that then shut off.
Ants95neon

Richmond, VA

#14 Jan 20, 2013
Oh sorry I meant hellcat sorry. My friend told me that it could be the speed sensor cause when it goes bad it tells the converter to disengage. Since it don't work the converter won't disengage cause its on low Rpms. Have u ever heard of that? I haven't. But I'm taking your advice on the wiring.
hellcat1988

Twin Valley, MN

#15 Jan 20, 2013
There is a slight chance of the transmission having solenoids inside it that would pop it out of gear, but there is no electrical link between the torque converter and anything else.

The way a torque converter works is actually pretty simple. There are three parts to a modern converter. The outer housing, which everyone is pretty familiar with the shape of, an inner rotor, and a stator. None of the components are actually connected to each other.

The outer housing has veins in it that are angled, almost like the veins on a jet engine, that when the engine is running spin the fluid inside the converter. When the car is in drive and the engine is revved, the veins push against the fluid, which in turn pushes against the rotor inside.

Now is where you need to know that there is a shaft that comes out of the transmission, made up of two parts. The outer shaft is what the housing slides on too and is more or less there for holding the torque converter centered, and driving the internal fluid pump of the transmission. The inner shaft is connected to a series of clutch disks and pressure plates that when the engine is revved, are pressed together with fluid directed by various channels in the transmission.

When the fluid is turned against the rotor by rotational force, it in turn is also rotated. Just like a jet uses the air from it's combustion to turn veins at the back of the engine to drive the intake veins at the front of the engine. A torque converter has much tighter clearances, so it doesn't need to spin as fast as a jet to get the same result.

Modern torque converters, to increase efficiency, have a third piece to help with this, called a stator. It keeps the fluid inside from being flung away from the rotor and directs it towards the veins at higher speeds.

The basic gist of it is, When the outer case spins fast enough, it pushes the fluid against the inner piece. You can see a very simplified example if you spin a bowl of water with something floating in the center. The water, resting against the bowls inner surface, will be forced to turn due to water tension and friction with the bowl, and thus spin whatever is resting on the water. It's horribly inefficient, but it's almost exactly the same way an automatic transmission works.

The torque converter gets it's fluid from the transmission, so if you ever get told your torque converter fluid is low by a mechanic trying to rip you off, just check your tranny fluid. And I can't stress enough, make sure you put the right kind in. I know a man who has killed 2 transmissions now by using the wrong stuff.
hellcat1988

Twin Valley, MN

#16 Jan 20, 2013
Ants95neon wrote:
Thanks wildcat I didn't think it was the PCM either. When I bought my neon it had 116000 miles on it for a 95 not to bad. The guy who had it before me put a lot of money into it and told me that it should last another 10yrs or so. He took care of this car real good but he sold it cause I guess he was having hard times but I got it and I love this car until this past weekend but I still love my neon easy on gas. Ok I will check those things today as soon as I go get my battery from oriellys. I killed it by trying to start it over & over. I guess that's why it would start on min and stall and not the next time cause I drained it. They checked it out last night and said it had only 4 percent charge on it guess because when I kept on trying to start and it wouldn't. Do u think it could be the battery or no? It is a ever start from walmart the second one I have bought from that place. But I don't think it would do that then shut off.
Before I forget, a battery being low and a battery being dead are two different things. You can charge a battery that's low, and there are special chargers out there designed to do a "deep cycle charge" that is meant to partially remove the corrosion that accumulates against the lead plates to make them work for much longer then they would otherwise. The only way a battery would truly be dead is if it was completely out of fluid or the lead plates inside were completely dissolved over time by the hydrochloric acid inside. That takes several decades though. Next time you are worried about something, don't be afraid to hop online and look it up with google or something. There are thousands of pages about almost anything, and just a quick read can help you avoid buying a part or paying a mechanic, when it's a simple and cheap fix that you'd be able to do. I've saved well over $30k by doing all my own car work and taking the type to type in a search on google. I saved myself one hell of a headache putting a transmission in a friends car by going to google and typing in "1998 dodge intrepid topix.com ", then doing a search on here about transmission shifting problems. Turns out it was two sensors on the trans that I was able to replace without even taking the wheels off. Don't be afraid to look, and you may just surprise yourself.
Ants95neon

Richmond, VA

#17 Jan 20, 2013
Ok thanks u really do know your cars wow I'm impressed. So I guess the converter is not the problem. I will keep trying it will eventually start up and drive. I will keep u posted.
Ants95neon

Richmond, VA

#18 Jan 20, 2013
One more ? When I try to start my neon and I and it kills the battery and charge it 100 percent and put it back in the car and kills it again does that mean the battery is shot or do I keep on trying to charge it till is finally starts up? When I took it to oreillys they checked it and it was good but when I try to start it again it dies. I'm swapped please help
hellcat1988

Twin Valley, MN

#19 Jan 20, 2013
Ants95neon wrote:
One more ? When I try to start my neon and I and it kills the battery and charge it 100 percent and put it back in the car and kills it again does that mean the battery is shot or do I keep on trying to charge it till is finally starts up? When I took it to oreillys they checked it and it was good but when I try to start it again it dies. I'm swapped please help
The battery will only hold 12 volts, but it should have between 300 and 700 amps to turn the starter. It's a pretty long and drawn out process to explain the electrical theory behind why it needs that much, so we'll just say it's force over flow to make it easy to understand. If your battery is showing the correct voltage, but not storing enough amperage, then it won't start the car because it can't force the starter to turn. Running it down by trying to start the car over and over again won't hurt it unless you're doing it several dozen times. There is usually a limit to how many times a battery will be able to be recharged, but I doubt you've come anywhere near that. As long as you're giving the starter time to cool between cycles of trying to start it, you shouldn't damage anything. If you're worried that the repeated attempts might hurt the battery, then I'd suggest getting one of the quick boost starter chargers. They are a charger designed to allow normal charging over time, but also have a setting to deliver a large amount of amperage to the battery for a short time to aid in starting the car. Once the car is started, you're supposed to remove the charger, turn it off, and allow the car's alternator to charge the battery to full capacity. The main point of it would be to bring the battery to a fully charged state by either letting it be given power from the household power via the charger, or the alternator. Again, it would take a ridiculous amount of cycles in a vary short time to kill a battery in less than a year.
Ants95neon

Richmond, VA

#20 Jan 21, 2013
Thanks a bunch I replaced the camshaft sensor and it started right up. And I also installed a new vehicle speed sensor it helped out to. Thanks for the help.

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