3-2-120 is a good thing!
no way

Pompano Beach, FL

#41 Jan 27, 2012
Serveitup wrote:
Be honest with yourself. Isn’t it easier for you to believe in something if you want it to be true? That doesn’t make us idiots. But it does make it easier for people to manipulate us by telling us what we want to hear.
Equally so, it’s not easy to convince people of something they don’t want to believe in. And, I have no doubt, you’re not going to want to believe the rest of this post. I’m banking that most of all, you’ll want to know what’s happening, whether it’s pleasant or not.
If you believe that 3-2-120’s ultimate goal is to save overtime, you’re absolutely right. And being good little soldiers, you know that you don’t have a job at Chrysler, if there is no Chrysler. So, you are eager to accept that Chrysler can’t possibly survive if you deprive them of 3-2-120 and Alternate Work Schedules. Too bad. You just swallowed it, hook, line, and sinker.
What just happened is that you fell for a parlor trick. An old debate trick is to put up an artificial finish line and discuss it. The other side doesn’t realize that they should have taken the discussion much further. And they stop and lose the debate.
You stopped too soon by thinking 3-2-120 or Alternate Work Schedules was the finish line. How much further should you have taken it?
Consider this. If all that Chrysler wants, is to save money on overtime, why are they refusing to consider schedules that eliminate overtime without rotating? Because eliminating overtime is a drop in the bucket in the Master Plan. You’re so eager to help Chrysler, you allowed yourself to be spoon-fed a red herring.
The REAL money Chrysler is after is in a fast and steady turnover of its labor force. I’m not calling it evil. But Chrysler LLC is a business that will always be looking for ways to improve the bottom line. So be realistic and understand that you are a lot more expensive to keep around at 10 years than a new hire. It would be a bonanza for them to have everyone leave at 9 years, 11 months, 3 weeks, and 6 days. No medical benefits. No retirement. No legacy of pensions that almost bankrupt GM.
Let me ask. Do you think Chrysler is having conventions to teach managers how to keep hourly employees for 40 years? No, the ideal case would be to keep personnel during their peak years of strength, stamina, and speed, then hope they leave. Or….“help” them leave. And believe me, rotation will help you leave Chrysler much sooner than you ever imagined.
. Thank you, finally someone gets it.
Jnapguy

Chicago, IL

#42 Jan 27, 2012
So it seems the purpose of 3-2-120 is to have a constant rotation of quitting employees so they can have as few people make the 10yr mark, so Chryslers legacy costs are as low as possible? Then if that's true, then that only makes Chryslers future brighter, right? Aren't the legacy costs are what hurt the "big 3"? I've seen hundreds of employees quit throughout the years and it's only accelerated in the last 1 1/2 years. So that should continue for some time with the 3-2-120. Then it's more important to do your best and try to make a future with Chrysler and preservere since Chrysler will only prosper from this work schedule.nif Chrysler is making money then our level of job security goes up.
Serveitup

Ann Arbor, MI

#44 Jan 28, 2012
If it works for you to see the glass half full, that's not for me to criticize. And it IS good for Chrysler. And, that DOES mean a job in the short run. None of this contradicts an underlying point this makes: This is all good for Chrysler, but...at what point do "the ends" no longer "justify the means?"

It is not a long stretch to see this as Chrysler being in such a panic mode, that it's okay to play people, manipulate them, and keep them in a constant state of worry while sucking them dry to prep them to leave.

I'm of the opinion that if Chrysler cannot care about your health and welfare, maybe they shouldn't survive. It shouldn't be to the point where we have to sacrfiice our health and happiness all for "the greater good" when it's just for Chrysler and stockholdes to benefit.

Everyone wants their employer to survive. But extremes like rotating people, for the sake of burning them out, is where many of us should draw the line. It's not needed for Chrysler to survive. Wait till you're doing it for 5 years and you hardly recognize the person you've become, how worn out you feel, how little you can do, the magnitude of problems it brings to your door, all for the sake of padding Chrysler's bottom line. YOUR bottom line is feeling like you're a pop can that is thrown away once it's sucked dry.

Rotation is a scam disguised as something that is necessary. Is is not necessary, and many of us have proven it. It's meant to burn you out, keep you from "earning" a decent pension, earning medical benefits, earning top pay, and a decent bank of vacation. It's up to you if you want to devote your life and sacrifice your health to give them another week, or year.

No one is asking you to believe this without questioning it. Educate yourself. An afternoon researching it will give you a lot better idea of what's in store for you if you rotate very long. I don't want to lose my job any more than you do. But there's a point where moving on to another job,is better than being a piece of meat for someone's profit.
Dodge Fart

Harrison Township, MI

#45 Jan 28, 2012
Employee turnover is one of the most costly things for an employer. Wake up. Your fantasy that Chrysler wants turnover is about as lame as it gets. If they want to get rid of people before 10 years they can just lay them off. This work schedule is to produce the maximum number of vehicles a plant can so they don't have to spend billions building another one they may not need in the next downturn. And there will be another downturn in the next 10 years as there always has. You know what happens then? They lay off a shift and go back to the way it was without having to build another plant now. These conspiracy theories about this schedule to induce employee turnover is about as dumb as it gets. Want is even more alarming is people are agreeing with it.Take business 101 and see how well any business does with excessive employee turnover and how many thousands of dollars each employee hired costs the company and then come back and tell us what you learned. Then again you probably wouldn't learn anything.

Pffffffffffffffft
Charles

Saint Louis, MO

#46 Jan 28, 2012
It is all about making money.I can go to work every day and make a paycheck or I could just make it easy and make more if I go down town and rob a bank. Both ways you make money but is it the right thing to do?The 3 shift will come back and bite them in the ass.
Charles

Saint Louis, MO

#47 Jan 28, 2012
Marchionne is expected to make the announcement on the additional shift Thursday when he visits the plant to officially inaugurate production of the all-new Dart, a compact based on the same platform as the Alfa Romeo Giuletta.
Charles

Saint Louis, MO

#48 Jan 28, 2012
Serveitup

Ann Arbor, MI

#49 Jan 28, 2012
Dodge Fart, your loyalty is admirable. The problem is, GEMA is w-a-y ahead of you on the curve and they know better. All the cheerleading and loyalty are great. But it shouldn't close your eyes to what GEMA already KNOWS. And this is what GEMA knows:

Management has been given several schedules which do everything that 3-2-120 requires. The same schedules do not cost the company one additional red cent. But STILL they want GEMA to rotate. What part of this goes over your head? If English is your primary language, this isn't hard to understand. They can do everything they want, and get everything they want, WITHOUT ANYONE ROTATING. Trenton also presented a plan that does the same thing.

On the other hand, you are doing your level best to AVOID learning the truth, aren't you? You "care" so much about Chrysler but you don't care about your own health? You don't care about dying 6.4 years sooner? Yeah, right. You don't care about the extreme risk it puts diabetics? Oh yeah, you're a "team player" alright. How about the women who have a much higher incidence of breast cancer. And hardly a week goes by at GEMA that someone doesn't leave in an ambulance with chest pains. Today, it was a woman in her late 30s. You're as clueless as they come. We've worked the rotation and it sucks. And it's NOT necessary. So why does Chrysler put its own workforce under such a high stress and health risk if a healthy schedule doesn't cost them another dime? They don't...want...you...to...stay . Comprendo? It means tens of millions of dollars a year if you don't, so don't be so gullible. And, no, they can't just going laying people off by the thousands every year. If they did, they'd have to hire them back wouldn't they? The idea is to get rid of you and hire in a newbie they can control, run him like a dog, give him a week's vacation, and the bottom wage. You're the one with the silly argument. It won't be long before you'll understand. When you feel like a Zombie at work, keep telling yourself they're doing it because they love you. Keep telling yourself the way they motivate you with fear is better for everyone as opposed to earning your dedication. A good worker gives his employer his sweat. Only a naive kiss-ass gives them his blood.

Since: Feb 10

Belvidere,IL

#50 Jan 28, 2012
There is a difference between a rotating 3-2-120 and one that has set shifts that don't rotate. The rotating one would absolutely be a bitch to work. The one being implemented at BAP, while a PITA to work, is no where near the beast that a rotating system would be. While I will hate to be working every Sat, I would prefer that to having to switch my life around every 2 weeks (or whatever the rotation is set to)

As far as high turnover. I can agree to a point that they are trying to move Tier 1's out. But there is no incentive at this time to move Tier 2 out. If they wanted to do that they would have to get rid of them after 1 year once they start drawing into the 401k. There is very little difference in a fresh of the street new hire and one that has been there 10 years. They don't have the legacy cost that Tier 1 has.
Dodge Fart

Harrison Township, MI

#51 Jan 28, 2012
Serveitup wrote:
Be honest with yourself. Isn’t it easier for you to believe in something if you want it to be true? That doesn’t make us idiots. But it does make it easier for people to manipulate us by telling us what we want to hear.
Equally so, it’s not easy to convince people of something they don’t want to believe in. And, I have no doubt, you’re not going to want to believe the rest of this post. I’m banking that most of all, you’ll want to know what’s happening, whether it’s pleasant or not.
If you believe that 3-2-120’s ultimate goal is to save overtime, you’re absolutely right. And being good little soldiers, you know that you don’t have a job at Chrysler, if there is no Chrysler. So, you are eager to accept that Chrysler can’t possibly survive if you deprive them of 3-2-120 and Alternate Work Schedules. Too bad. You just swallowed it, hook, line, and sinker.
What just happened is that you fell for a parlor trick. An old debate trick is to put up an artificial finish line and discuss it. The other side doesn’t realize that they should have taken the discussion much further. And they stop and lose the debate.
You stopped too soon by thinking 3-2-120 or Alternate Work Schedules was the finish line. How much further should you have taken it?
Consider this. If all that Chrysler wants, is to save money on overtime, why are they refusing to consider schedules that eliminate overtime without rotating? Because eliminating overtime is a drop in the bucket in the Master Plan. You’re so eager to help Chrysler, you allowed yourself to be spoon-fed a red herring.
The REAL money Chrysler is after is in a fast and steady turnover of its labor force. I’m not calling it evil. But Chrysler LLC is a business that will always be looking for ways to improve the bottom line. So be realistic and understand that you are a lot more expensive to keep around at 10 years than a new hire. It would be a bonanza for them to have everyone leave at 9 years, 11 months, 3 weeks, and 6 days. No medical benefits. No retirement. No legacy of pensions that almost bankrupt GM.
Let me ask. Do you think Chrysler is having conventions to teach managers how to keep hourly employees for 40 years? No, the ideal case would be to keep personnel during their peak years of strength, stamina, and speed, then hope they leave. Or….“help” them leave. And believe me, rotation will help you leave Chrysler much sooner than you ever imagined.
Do any of you realize how dumb this sounds? Tell me Einstein, what benefits do people get at 10 years? Pension? Anyone hired now does not get a pension and people haven't for over 10 years. They have a 401k and thats it. Medical benefits? The UAW VEBA pays that now. Anyone hired now gets nothing from the company when they retire. So why would Chrysler want to waste all the time and money of hiring you because they want to get rid of you? They can just lay you off at anytime and you get maybe some sub and thats it. Your theory about 3-2-120 is just a bunch of crap you make up because your too dumb to understand even what benefits people at your own company get. Dumbass. It's not about anything else but making more cars. I love the extra day off everyweek. If your too broke to live without the O.T. your never going to have enough money because you live beyond your means.

Fart out....

Pfffffffft
guy that knows

Hamburg, NY

#52 Jan 28, 2012
Gema sheema...shut up jesus weve heard enough about gema.....just shut up already and rotate like ur plant tells ya too!!!!:) lol loser
Serveitup

Ann Arbor, MI

#53 Jan 28, 2012
Dear Guy That Knows Squat, I think you're still sniffing Dodge Farts. Suckups like you two bury your heads in the sand and you're afraid to think about what's around the corner. If you had the intelligence of a Chia Pet, you would ask yourselves what Chrysler has to gain by rotating people when not rotating doesn't save them a cent more.

Chrysler's gotta love morons like you that just gobble up the crap without even questioning the most logical conclusions. GEMA has evidence. They have a history and have been through it. You pull guesses out of your rearends.

Soon you'll be rotating too. I'll be watching for your whining about it. You will. Oh yeah, you've heard enough about GEMA. Problem is, you don't UNDERSTAND a word of it. And here's a news flash, if you don't like it, don't read it. Duh. Or better yet, go start your own website and go away.

But here's your chance to show off and show the world how, ahem..."smart" you are. Since you like to ignore the entire point of a post and focus on important stuff like punctuation marks, answer this: All things being equal, how does rotating add a thing to help you keep a job? On a schedule that rotates, compared to a straight shift, and the overtime is equal, how does rotation help anything? That's right my Chia Pet wannabes, rotation doesn't do a thing to increase profits.

You just don't have enough seniority to get on days so you're trying B.S. the people on this forum. I won't go into any complicated math, like additon and subtraction. I don't want you to give yourself an aneurism. So skip the prior question and try this one: Dodge Fart, why would Chrysler want you to leave after they use you up? Well, Mr. Methane, when people who make $30 an hour leave, they are replaced with $14 an hour newbies with no vacation time, no seniority, and are 10 years further from retirement. That's called a sav-ings. Okay, I'll give you a hint:$14 an hour is less than $30 an hour. Oh, yes, but it's silly to think Chrysler would rather have a workforce that cost less than half of what it could cost. Try re-reading the posts when your migraine goes away.
guy that knows

Buskirk, NY

#54 Jan 29, 2012
Well i am on first shift and have almost twenty years in so YOUR assumptions are WRONG WIZ KID!!! BAP will NOT be rotating thank you...were not stupid like you gema folks lol. Have fun rotating and loaing your family life gema.....god just shut up already bout gema.....you are the one midwinter the point in all this....and the point is for you to shut up! Lol loser
Dodge Fart

Harrison Township, MI

#55 Jan 29, 2012
Thanks for worrying about my health. Doing fine thank you very much. I have 3 years to go and I am out. Working 4 days has saved me tons of vacation time that would have been taken for other things.And I have been on days the last 10 years. Explain to me how having an extra day off is ruining my family life? You just can't take the fact that some people are not as miserable as you, saved their money so they don't really miss the overtime pay, and welcome 40 hours instead of the 60 I was working. You know what ruined my family life? Working 60-70 hours a week so I could never see my family was what was ruining my family life. Now your on the $30 and hour compared to $14 and hour argument. What happened to they want to get rid of you before 10 years? Yeah, busted the bubble on that unfactual argument so you are trying another angle. Do they want the older workers to retire so they can hire workers who make less, of course. It's been like that as long as I have been there, thats why they offer early outs every few years. I would rather work 40 hours in 4 days and rotate then work 60 hours in 6 days. Is it so hard for you to understand that not everyone thinks like you? I guess so since you think anyone who feels differently than you has been brainwashed by the company.

Fart out...

Pffffffffffffffft
Booger King

United States

#56 Jan 29, 2012
Does our contract address an AWS yes it does
Does our contract address shift preference yes it does. Its that simple guys n gals.
guy that knows

United States

#57 Jan 29, 2012
Fart fart fart....right on!!!!! Yay!
The Truth

Macomb, MI

#58 Jan 29, 2012
Jnapguy wrote:
So it seems the purpose of 3-2-120 is to have a constant rotation of quitting employees so they can have as few people make the 10yr mark, so Chryslers legacy costs are as low as possible? Then if that's true, then that only makes Chryslers future brighter, right? Aren't the legacy costs are what hurt the "big 3"? I've seen hundreds of employees quit throughout the years and it's only accelerated in the last 1 1/2 years. So that should continue for some time with the 3-2-120. Then it's more important to do your best and try to make a future with Chrysler and preservere since Chrysler will only prosper from this work schedule.nif Chrysler is making money then our level of job security goes up.
a bad economy and a rising cost of commodities is what hurt the big 3, but they always go after the easy low hanging fruit for cuts,(workers and retirees)
The Truth

Macomb, MI

#59 Jan 29, 2012
P.S. let's not forget currency manipulation by Japan, Korea and China, just saying
rocky

Rockford, IL

#60 Jan 29, 2012
All I have to say is the car will sale at first then when it doesn't they will get rid of that C shift

Since: Jul 11

Ypsilanti, MI

#61 Jan 29, 2012
rocky wrote:
All I have to say is the car will sale at first then when it doesn't they will get rid of that C shift
Agreed. The JNAP calendar shows 3-2-120 to start in November.

It won't last. I think Sergio jumped the gun after seeing one month of Grand Cherokee sales. I do not believe those sales are sustainable at all. We will find out after the February-June numbers are released.

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