Toyota has fallen to GM on the MPG front. The Japanese company continues to lose market.
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#10025 Jun 13, 2014
I challange you to look up the thread that I taught you about egr valves and you will see my name is root. It will be interesting to see what 30 different names you were using at the time, tinkerbell. Lol
#10026 Jun 13, 2014
My wife has taken the first solid bowel movement today. This is the first solid bowl movement since the frog removal. With the weight decrease we should start getting into the 600MPG range in our Volt. Party!!!
#10028 Jun 13, 2014
This is truly fascinating stuff. Well, fascinating to me because I love factual facts. Anybody can use a keyboard.
So far I have ID'd 12 forum members needing battery replacement. That is, they are requesting and some getting. I'm only through page 4, but I couldn't help but put one up. I should say up front, I have never seen this kind of talk on any Volt forum.
There are several reasons that I find this fascinating. I'll list them as I go.(For those of you who like facts).
First of all, we have three posts by the same member.
On to the Leaf owner's posts. This owner was at 36,000 miles.
Post # 1:
Post subject: Re: The Battery Replacement ThreadPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:41 am
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:33 pm
Location: Chandler, AZ
Delivery Date: 29 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 7837
8/28: Nissan Rep called to inform me that the battery packs are arriving at the West Cost on Sept 5th, and I should be able to have mine replaced sometime during the week of Sept 9.
Pretty self explanatory.
#10029 Jun 13, 2014
Post # 2:
Post subject: Re: The Battery Replacement ThreadPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:36 pm
"Got the call today that my battery was in at the dealer - taking it in on Monday to get the battery replaced
Ironically, it was a day in which I had to do enough mid-day errands that I needed a QC. But if I had the new battery, I would have been fine."
Comment: That's odd. A leaf that can't complete the tasks at hand.
And now, on to what really fascinates me. Note the paragraph that begins with ..... "I can tell from the Leaf app that it was charged to 100% once on day 2, then it has been sitting idle ever since then". Comments after the post.
#10030 Jun 13, 2014
Post # 3:
Post subject: Re: The Battery Replacement ThreadPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:46 pm
"My new battery came in, and my Leaf has been at the dealer for 3 days now, trending to the fourth. The battery was replaced early on, but something happened and the dealer is telling me that the new battery doesn't appear to have much more capacity than the old battery. I asked them if they reset the BMS (felt a little like a know-it-all), and they said they followed the procedure for the swap-out, and they have done a few of these battery swaps and not seen this behavior before. They have a call in to Nissan to help them out.
I can tell from the Leaf app that it was charged to 100% once on day 2, then it has been sitting idle ever since then. I am now hoping that they don't give the car back to me with this battery, as it has been sitting with a 100% full battery for several days in the 100+ degree outdoors!
The Nissan rep has called me and said that he is in touch with the dealer and will give me daily reports. I have a nice Nissan Altima as a loaner car."
Glacier Pearl SL-e, Delivered Aug 26th, 2011
Current Miles: 36,100 Miles (Jan 20, 2013); Capacity Bars: 12/12;
Batt 2: AHr=62.1; SOH = 94% Hx = 88.17%
EV Project; EVSE Upgrade Rev2
His app told him that the dealership charged his new battery to 100% and left it sitting for several days at 100% in the hot sun. He doesn't want that new battery now.
As pointed out before, the Volt's charging / thermal management system will not allow the battery to be charged more than about 75 - 80%.
100% charging is a big no no for these batteries. The Volt's system also cools off the battery if the ambient temperature is too high, and heats it if it is too low.
The other problem these owners have is that they are discharging their batteries to almost 0%. Especially when they have lost range. Another big no no. Thats a huge no no. The Volt's software will not allow the battery to be discharged beyond about 15 - 20%.
#10032 Jun 13, 2014
Get one thing straight. Depreciation in Leaf batteries happens every day in all kinds of temperatures. Any other claims comes from a position of being uninformed.
L.I. batteries should never be charged more than 80%. They should never be discharged down to less than 20%.
Otherwise, you are cooking the battery.
To claim that only Leafs in hot weather lose capacity is ... well ... uneducated. A stand taken from a position of knowing nothing about the subject.
This article was written in August, 2013. The problem was not taken care of yet. All Leaf's to that point have the old battery.
Hot weather is everywhere. Cooking a battery doesn't stop at a border line. When you have a sub standard warranty and you have to buy a $100 a month extended warranty .... there is a problem. Denial
Ask yourself: Why is Nissan selling an extended warranty ... for $100 a month? Because all Leafs are losing capacity. All of them. They will not qualify under the replacement warranty but they will certainly be almost useless.
People should study the subject at hand before making unqualified statements.
#10033 Jun 13, 2014
"With my 50-60 mile So. Cal commute, coupled with my desire to go 70 on the freeway, I feel the need to charge to 100%. However, I am torn (even though I have a lease) when charging above 80%. Many others have said, don't sweat it; charge to 100%. I have also received the caveat, just don't let it sit, especially in the sun on a hot hot day. Ok, then. Question: If I NEVER let the car sit above 80% unless I plan on driving it in the next couple of hours, and NEVER let it sit above 80% in the sun on a hot hot day, how much battery degrade will I get compared to never ever charging above 80%. If the answer is none, or next to none, ya made my day."
Read this forum. Do I charge full? Don't I? Do I charge if I am not going to use the car the next day?
What?????? I can leave my Volt plugged in all day for 30 days in a row and the thermal management system will maintain the correct temperature and state of charge range .... period. I don't have to worry one iota.
My range has actually gained a little since purchase. Never happen in a Leaf.
And by the way, you can't take a Leaf to Grandma's, unless she lives 30 miles away.
#10034 Jun 13, 2014
And by the way, the Leaf costs only $500 less than the Volt. It loses $3,000 over 5 years. It loses battery range over those 5 years.
And ... this is the part I love best .... in order to make up those extra 300 miles the Volt owner is driving, the Leaf owner has to use a gas guzzler.
#10035 Jun 13, 2014
That's 300 miles per month
#10036 Jun 13, 2014
Now that Root is out of the closet, I'm sure he'll be heading to California to plug iluvmyVolt; wait for it!
#10037 Jun 13, 2014
Looks like the old Leaf has some battery problems.
#10038 Jun 13, 2014
There is some confusion concerning the terms range and capacity. Does the Volt lose range in very hot weather. Absolutely. It also loses range in very cold weather. Why?
Good question. Glad you asked. The Volt's thermal management system will use fans and even the air conditioning unit to keep the battery temperature stable. This takes electricity. The electricity comes from the main battery. The more electricity that is used, the less the range. But, when the weather returns to normal, the range always goes back to normal. That is because the capacity is the same.
When the Leaf loses capacity in extreme weather (or when owners keep their charge at more than 80% or less than 20% for long periods of time) the range never comes back. That is because the capacity is diminished.
Range / capacity. Not the same thing.
#10039 Jun 13, 2014
Go to "Minimizing Battery Capacity Loss", at the end of this article. They advise to park in the shade, don't charge to full capacity, shallower cycling, accelerate slower and on and on. I'm telling you, these Leaf owners who think that fast charging is OK will learn their lessons. Remember, most people keep their cars for about 7 - 8 years now. Can you imagine?
Now read this link:
"The Volt does not ALLOW you to charge higher than 80% SOC. The charger shuts off at that point. It also won't allow you to discharge below 35% and indeed that's the point where the little ICE engine range extender sticks in.
So you see to maximize warranty exposure, the Volt ALREADY limits you to 80% at the top and 35% at the bottom. The result is you don't have to worry with it.
So drive the car normally, charge when you like, and don't worry about it."
#10041 Jun 13, 2014
So, why are more people buying Leafs? Because they're cheap up front. Remember, KBB puts them behind by $3,000 after 5 years.
BUT ... as I keep pointing out, the average Volt owner drives 330 more miles per month than the Leaf owner.
That's deceiving because the Leaf owner actually drives those 330 miles also, just not in the Leaf. That's 4,000 miles per year. 20,000 miles over 5 years.
So, add that extra $3,100 for gas that Leaf owners must burn in their other car to the $3,000 KBB says the Leaf costs more than the Volt. That's $6,100 after 5 years.
I'm not even adding in maintenance, tires, and on and on to the gas car.(Remember, maintenance for the Volt is much less than a gas car).
For somebody to say that everybody has a second car to travel with is not looking at facts. 11 miles a day average means that Volt owners are taking their cars to Grandma's house. That is a fact. Can't be disputed.
But, the battery is what would scare me the most. Any car company that offers an extended warranty for $100 a month has problems.
#10042 Jun 14, 2014
Leaf drivers at risk of electrocution.
#10043 Jun 14, 2014
There are 20 pages of TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins) addressing a wide variety of problems with Volt since 2011 to the present.
At 10 TSBs per page, this adds up to 200 technical issues with Volt in just over three years.
So inasmuch as these problems are rarely if ever discussed in this forum, it certainly looks like Volt isn't nearly as trouble free as some would have us believe.
#10044 Jun 14, 2014
Maybe they can change the name from Leaf to Old Sparky.
#10045 Jun 14, 2014
The Leaf is a maintenance ticking time bomb. Just wait!
#10046 Jun 14, 2014
The Volt is basically is a cross between a Vega and a Yugo. Just another bomb in the long line a General Motors failures.
#10047 Jun 14, 2014
Yes I agree, the Leaf engineers really hurt the car by cutting costs and putting in batteries that don't have a cooling system. I really don't want to say it but I'm afraid the Leaf is becoming another recall king much like the long list of Toyotas on our roads.
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