Four girls are dragged on to aeroplan...

Four girls are dragged on to aeroplane in Australia after judge rules ...

There are 59 comments on the Daily Mail story from Oct 4, 2012, titled Four girls are dragged on to aeroplane in Australia after judge rules .... In it, Daily Mail reports that:

'Let me go, I want my mum!' Four girls are dragged kicking and screaming on to aeroplane in Australia after judge rules they must return to father in Italy Disturbing scenes showing four girls being dragged kicking and screaming on to a plane in Brisbane to be sent back to their Italian father caused outrage across Australia today.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Mail.

First Prev
of 3
Next Last
wogs are pedos

Sydney, Australia

#44 Oct 5, 2012
the girls didnt want to go back beause the wog dad likes to molest kids
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#45 Oct 5, 2012
true blue wrote:
These kids are Italian, their Mother who I am guessing is Australian, brought these kids to Australia to visit relatives and then refused to return them to Italy... No doubt she was entitled to legal aid in Australia, plus supporting parent benefit.. The court made the right decision, the Mother needs to return to Italy to be with her kids... If she doesn't, then really that's her problem, the father is entitled to as much acccess as she is...
There is a serious issue here pertaining to the intersection of EU law, Italian law, commonwealth and Australian law. Most of this is untested but it would appear that Australia children's court system has basically said the children are not Australian citizens and therefore cannot afforded legal aid defense.

This probably sends a timely warning to expats who decide to have kiddies overseas, particularly in non-English speaking countries to non-Englsh speaking husbands.

The major flaw in this arguement is the duty of care to protect the children from harm. If the mother's claim that the father was physically abusing the daughters is true then if anything happens to the girls in Italy I suspect the mother could sue the the Australian taxpayer for millions.

Since: Jan 12

Where The Wild Things Grow

#46 Oct 5, 2012
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a serious issue here pertaining to the intersection of EU law, Italian law, commonwealth and Australian law. Most of this is untested but it would appear that Australia children's court system has basically said the children are not Australian citizens and therefore cannot afforded legal aid defense.
This probably sends a timely warning to expats who decide to have kiddies overseas, particularly in non-English speaking countries to non-Englsh speaking husbands.
The major flaw in this arguement is the duty of care to protect the children from harm. If the mother's claim that the father was physically abusing the daughters is true then if anything happens to the girls in Italy I suspect the mother could sue the the Australian taxpayer for millions.
The children have dual citizenship, that is Australian and Italian, I cannot understand how these children could have been removed in this way - it is just cruel - but you are right re 'timely warning'- I personally don't see any court in Italy granting custody to a non-Italian mother, which is why I imagine the mother tried to keep the children here and have the matter settled under an Australian jurisdiction.

ksf

Since: Aug 07

Perth, Australia

#47 Oct 6, 2012
sairla wrote:
<quoted text>
The situation is not nice - I don't understand, these children have dual citizenship, so they are also Australian, therefore are legally entitled to be here - there would be an outrage if we were to see illegal refugees escorted from Australia in this manner.
What they want is irrelevant in this case (and our laws don't recognise what children want - we assume that guardians will make choices for them). The mother was clearly in breach for keeping the kids in Australia.The Hague Convention demands they be returned. The same would apply if an Italian father took his kids to Italy from Australia without the mother's permission. The kids would have to be returned to Australia. Or is it different because of his nationality or gender?

ksf

Since: Aug 07

Perth, Australia

#48 Oct 6, 2012
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a serious issue here pertaining to the intersection of EU law, Italian law, commonwealth and Australian law. Most of this is untested but it would appear that Australia children's court system has basically said the children are not Australian citizens and therefore cannot afforded legal aid defense.
This probably sends a timely warning to expats who decide to have kiddies overseas, particularly in non-English speaking countries to non-Englsh speaking husbands.
The major flaw in this arguement is the duty of care to protect the children from harm. If the mother's claim that the father was physically abusing the daughters is true then if anything happens to the girls in Italy I suspect the mother could sue the the Australian taxpayer for millions.
Hi Elias. Long time, no debate.
The only duty of the courts in this instance is to uphold the Hague Convention. If we start allowing variances to that, we are de facto withdrawing from the convention and can no longer expect other states to meet their obligations in dealing with us in similar cases.
It is up to the Italian courts to decide on issues such as custody and whether abuse has taken place, just as if circumstances were reversed, the kids would be repatriated to Australia and our courts would have jurisdiction.

Since: Jan 12

Where The Wild Things Grow

#49 Oct 6, 2012
ksf wrote:
<quoted text>What they want is irrelevant in this case (and our laws don't recognise what children want - we assume that guardians will make choices for them). The mother was clearly in breach for keeping the kids in Australia.The Hague Convention demands they be returned. The same would apply if an Italian father took his kids to Italy from Australia without the mother's permission. The kids would have to be returned to Australia. Or is it different because of his nationality or gender?
No, I don't think it is different at all, I just feel sorry for the children, after living here for two years they are facing a great change in their life and being taken from one parent to live with another - children pay a high price sometimes for the failure of their parents relationship.

ksf

Since: Aug 07

Perth, Australia

#50 Oct 6, 2012
sairla wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't think it is different at all, I just feel sorry for the children, after living here for two years they are facing a great change in their life and being taken from one parent to live with another - children pay a high price sometimes for the failure of their parents relationship.
Agree on the kids paying a heavy price in such situations. But in this case the blame lies firmly with the mother, who abducted them and held them for two years.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#51 Oct 6, 2012
sairla wrote:
<quoted text>
The children have dual citizenship, that is Australian and Italian.
Even so, they have to be 18 before they can decide to return to Australia. This is starting to remind me of the Jacqueline Gillespie case where her children were forced to live with her Malaysian father (Prince Bahruddin Shah) but reached 18 and flew back to Australia to live with their mother.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#52 Oct 6, 2012
ksf wrote:
<quoted text>Hi Elias. Long time, no debate.
The only duty of the courts in this instance is to uphold the Hague Convention. If we start allowing variances to that, we are de facto withdrawing from the convention and can no longer expect other states to meet their obligations in dealing with us in similar cases.
It is up to the Italian courts to decide on issues such as custody and whether abuse has taken place, just as if circumstances were reversed, the kids would be repatriated to Australia and our courts would have jurisdiction.
I think theres the famous legal precedence of the Tarasoff case where tatiana Tarasoff was murdered by a jealous boyfriend and the psychologist was deregistered and charged with negligence for not notifying the parents the boyfriend was at large. The upshot was that duty of care laws were turned upside down and implies that a court can't "ethically" approve the removal of children from a safe environment into a dangerous environment if there is suspicision of abuse. I think the children should have been allowed ot stay till the claim of the mother was determined ,more thoroughly.

Since: Jan 12

Where The Wild Things Grow

#53 Oct 6, 2012
ksf wrote:
<quoted text>Agree on the kids paying a heavy price in such situations. But in this case the blame lies firmly with the mother, who abducted them and held them for two years.
Perhaps she felt there was no other way but for her to return to Australia - if she had any reason to fear he husband, leaving him and remaining in Italy would be very difficult - there are not the support services there as here, it's entirely different.

Since: Jan 12

Where The Wild Things Grow

#54 Oct 6, 2012
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
I think theres the famous legal precedence of the Tarasoff case where tatiana Tarasoff was murdered by a jealous boyfriend and the psychologist was deregistered and charged with negligence for not notifying the parents the boyfriend was at large. The upshot was that duty of care laws were turned upside down and implies that a court can't "ethically" approve the removal of children from a safe environment into a dangerous environment if there is suspicision of abuse. I think the children should have been allowed ot stay till the claim of the mother was determined ,more thoroughly.
I don't believe the father is considered to be abusive where the children are concerned, but I agree, considering they have been here for two years and are indicating they have no wish to return - deal with the matter here. The manner in which the children were taken from their mother and Australia was quite disgraceful and if this is viewed in Italy it would be considered abuse - Italians love and value children.

ksf

Since: Aug 07

Perth, Australia

#55 Oct 7, 2012
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
I think theres the famous legal precedence of the Tarasoff case where tatiana Tarasoff was murdered by a jealous boyfriend and the psychologist was deregistered and charged with negligence for not notifying the parents the boyfriend was at large. The upshot was that duty of care laws were turned upside down and implies that a court can't "ethically" approve the removal of children from a safe environment into a dangerous environment if there is suspicision of abuse. I think the children should have been allowed ot stay till the claim of the mother was determined ,more thoroughly.
Not aware of any suggestion thew kids were abused or put in any danger with the father. And if such allegations were made, the proper jurisdiction would be Italy - where any such abuse took place. We sign onto these international agreements for a reason - presumably because they set standards we would like ourselves and others to meet. Any variance is the start of a slippery slope.

ksf

Since: Aug 07

Perth, Australia

#56 Oct 7, 2012
sairla wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps she felt there was no other way but for her to return to Australia - if she had any reason to fear he husband, leaving him and remaining in Italy would be very difficult - there are not the support services there as here, it's entirely different.
Italy is a pretty advanced western nation, much like Australia in many ways. I would assume they also have support services and police and judicial processes to deal with such matters. Yes, it was certainly easier for the mother just to skip back to Australia rather than deal with the system, but that move demonstrated only her contempt for the rights of the father, the children and the law (Italian, Australian and international).

ksf

Since: Aug 07

Perth, Australia

#57 Oct 7, 2012
sairla wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe the father is considered to be abusive where the children are concerned, but I agree, considering they have been here for two years and are indicating they have no wish to return - deal with the matter here. The manner in which the children were taken from their mother and Australia was quite disgraceful and if this is viewed in Italy it would be considered abuse - Italians love and value children.
But they were only here for two years because the mother abducted the children and it took hat long for the matter to be dealt with. There are hundred of these cases every year (kids being removed from Australia or brought to Australia without the consent of the other parent). The law is very clear - the children must be returned to the point of origin and any disputes must be dealt with there.

ksf

Since: Aug 07

Perth, Australia

#58 Oct 7, 2012
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
Even so, they have to be 18 before they can decide to return to Australia. This is starting to remind me of the Jacqueline Gillespie case where her children were forced to live with her Malaysian father (Prince Bahruddin Shah) but reached 18 and flew back to Australia to live with their mother.
Ummmm......my recollection is that she (like the woman in this case) kept the kids in Australia without the consent of the father and that he took them back to Malaysia by secretive means (without utilising the Hague Convention). Despite the efforts of the Australian media, Gillespie didn't come out of it looking too good.
She could have sought judgement from the Malaysian courts, admitttedly with not much chance of success (not least because Islamic precedent usually favours the father. Then again, our family courts have favoured the mother for far too long so it all balances out)

Since: Jan 12

Where The Wild Things Grow

#59 Oct 7, 2012
ksf wrote:
<quoted text>Italy is a pretty advanced western nation, much like Australia in many ways. I would assume they also have support services and police and judicial processes to deal with such matters. Yes, it was certainly easier for the mother just to skip back to Australia rather than deal with the system, but that move demonstrated only her contempt for the rights of the father, the children and the law (Italian, Australian and international).
I have lived for many years in Italy, if a woman is for any reason on her own, she is entitled to maintenance for the children but there are no parenting payments, so unless she was employed and paid very well, financial survival would be extremely difficult - Italy is quite advanced but does not have our generous welfare system. I do agree however that we need to observe laws put in place to prevent a parent taking a child away from another parent - I just feel sorry for the girls in this situation.
Budju

Australia

#60 Oct 7, 2012
Set me up wrote:
Someone tell the stupid sl*t mother that I'll happily marry all her daughters so they can live in Aus.
5-somes every night baby! Damn that'll be good.
Probly the right age for you too pedo
Kamal

Guntur, India

#61 Oct 7, 2012
na papa ne kaha nahi sayad papa v yahi chate the pata nahi mai so gai thori der bad mai janbuj kar apna hip papa ke tarf kar diya aur papa me sat gayi papa kalig mere gadh se takra raha tha maine dhire se papa ka ling pakra to papajage huwe the papa ne phat se mere boobs ko pakar liya aur maslne lage phir kyatha papa ne mere badan

ksf

Since: Aug 07

Perth, Australia

#62 Oct 8, 2012
sairla wrote:
<quoted text>
I have lived for many years in Italy, if a woman is for any reason on her own, she is entitled to maintenance for the children but there are no parenting payments, so unless she was employed and paid very well, financial survival would be extremely difficult - Italy is quite advanced but does not have our generous welfare system. I do agree however that we need to observe laws put in place to prevent a parent taking a child away from another parent - I just feel sorry for the girls in this situation.
Agreed - feel sorry for them too.(Not many places are as good for social welfare as Australia)

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 3
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Queensland, Australia Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News New Gonorrhea Strain in Australia Resistant to ... (Nov '14) May 24 Yank Oliver 13
News Hanson: halal a 'money-making racket' May 22 Porkman 4
News Maid of the Mist remains a worldwide draw May 5 Anonymous 1
News Secret recordings of Labor election 'deal' May 4 Cath League of Du... 1
News Calls for Samoans to be deported from Australia (Nov '08) Apr '15 Indians are stink... 4,423
Work Specialization in Organizations Apr '15 Kim 1
News Seeking ugly women for Outback's lonely hearts (Aug '08) Apr '15 William Shorten 5
More from around the web