Australian wins legal right to die

[TBA]

Palawa wrote:

<quoted text>
I've spent quite a deal of time in palliative care and ICU wards and from my observations, it's the beliefs of the doctors which determine their actions in cases like this. I've watched many religious people fight against doctors and the patients wishes because their beliefs don't agree with the actions the medical staff want to take to relieve suffering. I've also watched doctors arguing over treatment because of a doctors refusal because of their beliefs, most people don't see these things as they do them away from the patient and relatives.

I've been in the opposite situation where doctors, fearing legal repercussions, won't end suffering with greater morphine doses. It's more about the law than religion. I'm sure there are docs out there who quietly do the right thing and let someone die quickly and with dignity. They just weren't around when my parents needed them.

[Palawa]

TBA wrote:

<quoted text>
I've been in the opposite situation where doctors, fearing legal repercussions, won't end suffering with greater morphine doses. It's more about the law than religion. I'm sure there are docs out there who quietly do the right thing and let someone die quickly and with dignity. They just weren't around when my parents needed them.

I think it boils down to how these things are approached and the hospital or care centre involved. Legal repercussions only occur when someone is aware of the proposed treatments outcome and complains. I've worked in both private and public hospitals and palliative approaches are always discussed in detail. However dosage is left to the attending physician in the end.

From my perspective, all palliative care is a form of sanctioned euthanasia as it brings on death before it would occur under uncontrolled conditions and in many cases, whilst the patient is still active and mobile.

[br1b3]

i think people should have the right if they wish thats all i say ..

[Peppermint Patti]

Palawa wrote:

Life judges you on the decisions you make at the time, that's why religious people are so stuffed in the head and have no credibility in their lives.

Agreed, life and people around us judge us by our words and actions. The way we treat others reflects our character.

And, in a way, our beliefs :-)

[Gottaliv]

On tonight - Thursday night - ABC 1 at 8.30pm.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200908/pr ...

The Suicide Tourist:
8:30pm Thursday, 27 Aug 2009 Documentary CC M

The controversy about a person's right to die at a time and place of their own choosing has become focused on the Swiss organisation Dignitas, and its founder, civil rights lawyer, Ludwig Minelli. Dignitas, based in Zurich Switzerland, is the only place in the world where a person seeking an assisted suicide can be helped to die, no matter where they are from. For a year, Oscar-winning Canadian director John Zaritsky had exclusive access to Dignitas, and its clients.

In The Suicide Tourist, Zaritsky tells two interwoven stories about suicide. In the first, he follows a terminally ill man, 59-year-old American Craig Ewert, through the last four days of his life - preparing to leave his adopted home in England for the last time, then on his journey to Zurich, and into the care of Dignitas, with whose help he will end his life. Dignitas - a kind of travel agency to the afterlife - has made all the arrangements.

His death takes place in a rented apartment, where a Dignitas employee prepares a fatal drink. With his wife Mary at his side, Craig swallows the poison, and slips quietly into a final sleep.

In Switzerland, the law says only that suicide must not be assisted for personal gain. Ludwig Minelli believes the option of a painless and dignified death is a basic human right, and should be legal for all.

The second story in The Suicide Tourist follows Canadian couple George and Betty Coumbias, who test that philosophy, and the Swiss tolerance for a law that some say is giving Zurich a reputation for suicide tourism. George has terminal heart disease, and would like to choose the time of his death with the help of Dignitas; his wife Betty is determined to die with him, even though she is perfectly healthy.

[Gottaliv]

Gottaliv wrote:

On tonight - Thursday night - ABC 1 at 8.30pm. The Suicide Tourist:

That was a beautifully done documentary, sensitive and dignified though very very sad.

[dathao]

no one has right to die evenif there is no hope. who know the hope will come at the end. god gives us breath, do not waste it.i am pretly sure that no death is peacful.

[Palawa]

dathao wrote:

no one has right to die evenif there is no hope. who know the hope will come at the end. god gives us breath, do not waste it.i am pretly sure that no death is peacful.

So your pretty sure no death is peaceful are you, well I've got news for you, 90% of deaths are peaceful the rest are normally caused by effects of trauma or unmanaged debilitating illness.

As for your god, suck it.

[Gottaliv]

Palawa wrote:

<quoted text>...90% of deaths are peaceful the rest are normally caused by effects of trauma or unmanaged debilitating illness.

What??? You say '90% of deaths are peaceful"...??? Where'd you get that percentage from, fantasy land? Or perhaps you applied the PANOOYA principle.

The so called "peaceful" deaths I've witnessed are mostly drug induced - is that what you are counting in your 90%.?. because there's millions of them and the only reason they seem "peaceful" is because of the drugs (if so I'll take back my sarcasm.) Then there's the very infrequent cases of people dying naturally in their sleep who have not suffered ill health beforehand. That is the one and only death I'd consider truly peaceful. The only thing peaceful about the majority of deaths is the moment after.

[Elias]

Gottaliv wrote:

<quoted text>
What??? You say '90% of deaths are peaceful"...??? Where'd you get that percentage from, fantasy land? Or perhaps you applied the PANOOYA principle.
The so called "peaceful" deaths I've witnessed are mostly drug induced - is that what you are counting in your 90%.?. because there's millions of them and the only reason they seem "peaceful" is because of the drugs (if so I'll take back my sarcasm.) Then there's the very infrequent cases of people dying naturally in their sleep who have not suffered ill health beforehand. That is the one and only death I'd consider truly peaceful. The only thing peaceful about the majority of deaths is the moment after.

Death is inivetable.....

[Palawa]

Gottaliv wrote:

<quoted text>
What??? You say '90% of deaths are peaceful"...??? Where'd you get that percentage from, fantasy land? Or perhaps you applied the PANOOYA principle.
The so called "peaceful" deaths I've witnessed are mostly drug induced - is that what you are counting in your 90%.?. because there's millions of them and the only reason they seem "peaceful" is because of the drugs (if so I'll take back my sarcasm.) Then there's the very infrequent cases of people dying naturally in their sleep who have not suffered ill health beforehand. That is the one and only death I'd consider truly peaceful. The only thing peaceful about the majority of deaths is the moment after.

Of course they are drug induced, in this day and age, what else is there but suffering. I remember watching my grandfather die of cancer, it was horrible. Since, I've seen many people die and death to day is much more peaceful and lucid than back then. In fact it's almost unreal in some cases.

[Gottaliv]

Elias wrote:

<quoted text>
Death is inivetable.....

Not only that, it's inevitable too!

[Gottaliv]

Palawa wrote:

<quoted text>...death to day is much more peaceful and lucid than back then. In fact it's almost unreal in some cases.

Yes, but only when "pretend" euthanasia is practiced.:)

Did you watch "The Suicide Tourist".? Worth watching and it's available to watch on-line on the ABC site.

[Palawa]

Gottaliv wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, but only when "pretend" euthanasia is practiced.:)
Did you watch "The Suicide Tourist".? Worth watching and it's available to watch on-line on the ABC site.

No I saw the first couple of minutes and turned it of. I've worked a lot in palliative care wards and don't need any reminders of the situations people face.

[Colin]

Let's just all sit back and watch Christian die and see if his death is painful or not. Some of us would then be able to say 'I was right I told you so'. Or, maybe it would be better to spend the time coming up with ways to make his life better, rather than letting him starve like a dog!!!

[Palawa]

Colin wrote:

Let's just all sit back and watch Christian die and see if his death is painful or not. Some of us would then be able to say 'I was right I told you so'. Or, maybe it would be better to spend the time coming up with ways to make his life better, rather than letting him starve like a dog!!!

He's not going to starve, he just wanted the right to decide when to stop them feeding him if he desires, so his carers wouldn't face any legal liability. It's a rational and logical approach.