Animal rights critics wrong: lion tamer

Animal rights critics wrong: lion tamer

There are 23 comments on the The Age story from Apr 29, 2010, titled Animal rights critics wrong: lion tamer. In it, The Age reports that:

One of Australia's few remaining lion tamers has challenged anyone accusing him of animal cruelty to spend some time with him and his "pets". Lennon Bros Circus and its sister operation Stardust Circus are the only remaining circuses in Australia to feature exotic animals such as lions and monkeys.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Age.

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HarryPotter

Melbourne, Australia

#1 Apr 29, 2010
These animals would never survive if they were to be released into the wild because they are domesticated wild animals. They could never defend themselves from their predators’ especially the human kind. Australian circuses provide their animals with a more stimulating environment compared to animals kept in zoos. Circus animals in Australia are very safe and loved.

All wild animals should have the right to remain in their natural habitat instead of being driven out for land development. Animals in plague proportions y are culled so why can’t the human race take responsibility and use contraception because we are the species in plague proportions on this planet.
George

Jefferson, GA

#2 Apr 29, 2010
HarryPotter wrote:
These animals would never survive if they were to be released into the wild because they are domesticated wild animals. They could never defend themselves from their predators’ especially the human kind. Australian circuses provide their animals with a more stimulating environment compared to animals kept in zoos. Circus animals in Australia are very safe and loved.
All wild animals should have the right to remain in their natural habitat instead of being driven out for land development. Animals in plague proportions y are culled so why can’t the human race take responsibility and use contraception because we are the species in plague proportions on this planet.
I personally don't want to see ANY animals released into the wild. But I also don't want to see unfit habitats, bullhooks,etc. I work at an Aquarium and I know for a FACT no one is mistreating our animals. However, I have seen some habitats that were overcrowded or inadequate. I am fine with animal in captivity as it does generate empathy in children and the wild is CERTAINLY far from kind. Mt God!
HarryPotter

Melbourne, Australia

#3 Apr 30, 2010
George wrote:
<quoted text>I personally don't want to see ANY animals released into the wild. But I also don't want to see unfit habitats, bullhooks,etc. I work at an Aquarium and I know for a FACT no one is mistreating our animals. However, I have seen some habitats that were overcrowded or inadequate. I am fine with animal in captivity as it does generate empathy in children and the wild is CERTAINLY far from kind. Mt God!
What are these Animal Rights people going to do? Put these animals in a zoo or put the suffering creatures down. Looks like a publicity stunt for the organisation.
George

United States

#4 Apr 30, 2010
HarryPotter wrote:
<quoted text>What are these Animal Rights people going to do? Put these animals in a zoo or put the suffering creatures down. Looks like a publicity stunt for the organisation.
No, they REALLY believe they are ALL being mistreated. and MANY are as no one is regulating these circuses. The thing with the bullhooks, i believe that's true 100%. But ALL trainers being bad people?no. I don't know how many times i go to lobby for the Humane society for our companion animals and have someone ask where I work. and when I tell them an aquarium the look on their face is such disgust. I wouldn't work in a place where people were being mean to animals. And to release an animal raised in captivity to the wild is the most cruel thing you can do. Many times we have tried to release some of ours only to rescue them again. And PETA people are not bad people at all as I also know many of them. But some of them are gullible people that believe everything they read. But they really DO love animals and they aren't making money from it either!
HarryPotter

Melbourne, Australia

#5 Apr 30, 2010
George wrote:
<quoted text>No, they REALLY believe they are ALL being mistreated. and MANY are as no one is regulating these circuses. The thing with the bullhooks, i believe that's true 100%. But ALL trainers being bad people?no. I don't know how many times i go to lobby for the Humane society for our companion animals and have someone ask where I work. and when I tell them an aquarium the look on their face is such disgust. I wouldn't work in a place where people were being mean to animals. And to release an animal raised in captivity to the wild is the most cruel thing you can do. Many times we have tried to release some of ours only to rescue them again. And PETA people are not bad people at all as I also know many of them. But some of them are gullible people that believe everything they read. But they really DO love animals and they aren't making money from it either!
Our circus animals are being monitored by the RSPCA and they are the main body that looks after the welfare of all animals. They don't seem to have a problem with the 2 remaining circuses that still have animal performances.
George

United States

#6 Apr 30, 2010
HarryPotter wrote:
<quoted text>
Our circus animals are being monitored by the RSPCA and they are the main body that looks after the welfare of all animals. They don't seem to have a problem with the 2 remaining circuses that still have animal performances.
as I said it is a select few giving the rest a bad name. I do believe Queenie was abused by the Davenport circus
HarryPotter

Melbourne, Australia

#7 Apr 30, 2010
George wrote:
<quoted text>as I said it is a select few giving the rest a bad name. I do believe Queenie was abused by the Davenport circus
These Animal rights activists would be better off fighting for their cause overseas where animal rights are really being abused because they are no government organisations looking out for them. Occasionally they bring some justice by drawing attention to injustices but they are rare in Australia.
George

United States

#8 Apr 30, 2010
I think animal rights activists are everywhere and animal abuse is everywhere.
HarryPotter

Melbourne, Australia

#9 May 1, 2010
George wrote:
I think animal rights activists are everywhere and animal abuse is everywhere.
I have no tolerance for cruelty. Offenders should receive the same as what they deliver to their victims.
Wake up everybody

Adelaide, Australia

#10 May 3, 2010
For those of you who actually believe there is no harm being done to these animals by being kept by a circus, just how ignorant are you???
It is completely unnatural for these animals to be kept in captivity where they are forced to perform tricks for the sake of money, and where they cannot possibly behave or interact with each other in a way that they would in the wild. Even a zoo, such as Western Plains, where the "enclosures" are large enough for them to run freely and have little contact with humans is preferable as far as animals being kept in captivity.
It IS cruelty, no matter how you try and justify it. And it IS all about money, not their love for these animals - that's ridiculous! If they had a real love and respect for these lions (in this particular case) they would be working along side those who try to prevent this abhorrent display of animal abuse from ever happening in the first place!
Would you stomach seeing children being treated this way? It is equivalent to locking a child in an empty room and occasionally bringing him/her out on to the front lawn for crowds of people to gawk at while made to perform out of fear, then justifying it by saying the child is better off because it is fed well and kept from the dangers of the outside world. Does that make it a healthy, natural environment?
And you people are going to take your children to the circus to teach them that animal abuse is ok and that they are here for our entertainment? It's parents like you who are perpetuating the problem and slowing down our progress as an intelligent, caring species.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated..." Mathatma Gandhi
HarryPotter

Melbourne, Australia

#11 May 3, 2010
Wake up everybody wrote:
For those of you who actually believe there is no harm being done to these animals by being kept by a circus, just how ignorant are you???
It is completely unnatural for these animals to be kept in captivity where they are forced to perform tricks for the sake of money, and where they cannot possibly behave or interact with each other in a way that they would in the wild. Even a zoo, such as Western Plains, where the "enclosures" are large enough for them to run freely and have little contact with humans is preferable as far as animals being kept in captivity.
It IS cruelty, no matter how you try and justify it. And it IS all about money, not their love for these animals - that's ridiculous! If they had a real love and respect for these lions (in this particular case) they would be working along side those who try to prevent this abhorrent display of animal abuse from ever happening in the first place!
Would you stomach seeing children being treated this way? It is equivalent to locking a child in an empty room and occasionally bringing him/her out on to the front lawn for crowds of people to gawk at while made to perform out of fear, then justifying it by saying the child is better off because it is fed well and kept from the dangers of the outside world. Does that make it a healthy, natural environment?
And you people are going to take your children to the circus to teach them that animal abuse is ok and that they are here for our entertainment? It's parents like you who are perpetuating the problem and slowing down our progress as an intelligent, caring species.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated..." Mathatma Gandhi
Everything is about money! Don't you think it costs money to provide animal welfare? These are animals that have been born in captivity and have never known what it is like to have freedom. They are domesticated. Are you telling me that cats and dogs should be out in the wild? They were once wild too.

These are the last circuses in Australia that have animals. Don't you think it would be cruel to take them away from that environment if they had never known better in the first place.

These animals are being provided with a good diet and shelter. Their daily interaction with people keeps their minds stimulated.

It is at the Circus's best interest to make sure their animals are happy and healthy. They have had the animals for years. Only happy, healthy animals have long life spans.
Iron Ore

Australia

#12 May 3, 2010
stupid hippies
Wake up everybody

Adelaide, Australia

#13 May 4, 2010
HarryPotter wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything is about money! Don't you think it costs money to provide animal welfare? These are animals that have been born in captivity and have never known what it is like to have freedom. They are domesticated. Are you telling me that cats and dogs should be out in the wild? They were once wild too.
These are the last circuses in Australia that have animals. Don't you think it would be cruel to take them away from that environment if they had never known better in the first place.
These animals are being provided with a good diet and shelter. Their daily interaction with people keeps their minds stimulated.
It is at the Circus's best interest to make sure their animals are happy and healthy. They have had the animals for years. Only happy, healthy animals have long life spans.
Mate, it erks me to even reply to someone who obviously knows little about the whole industry. Of course I know animal welfare costs money! I fork out quite a bit from my own pocket and I do a lot of volunteer work with rescue animals. And if it weren't for human's stupidity, ignorance and greed, there wouldn't be the need for so much money to be sourced for their rehabilitation in the first place!

For you to compare "domesticated" lions with cats and dogs is absolutely ridiculous, let alone say that anything I said previously would suggest that I think all cats and dogs should be "out in the wild". That said, many of them are, due to our lack of responsibility over the years. But that's another conversation...
If you were to actually do your homework, the evolution of how certain animals became domestic pets has not only taken thousands of years, but came about by co-dependency. I doubt any one of these lions rocked up on the doorstep of Stardust Circus looking for a feed.
So you seem to have entirely missed the point here. Saying that these animals are "domesticated" and "well looked after" or "better off" only validates them being kept in circuses and therefore perpetuates the problem by encouraging these idiots to source more of them for entertainment purposes.
The reason intelligent people are against animals in circuses at all is because it is a cruel, unnatural environment for them (yes, even dogs! My dog's smart enough to do tricks but I wouldn't charge people to watch him and force him do it repeatedly on a daily basis for the sake of my own greed!) and one which they should not be put in in the first place. I really don't know why it is so difficult for certain people to see that.
And as for the argument that these animals are too dependant on people to ever survive in "the wild", nobody is suggesting they are thrown back into an African desert somewhere to fend for themselves. They would be placed in the care of a suitable sanctuary where they are free to exist in a more natural environment, yet still under the watchful eye of people who actually respect them. Circus animals worldwide have been rescued and rehabilitaed this way with great success and, ultimately, to the benefit of the animals themselves, who immediately begin to show signs of their instinctive behaviour once given the chance. Do you really think that you, or some lion tamer who makes money from them, is better equipped in deciding what's best for these lions than people who have studied and rescued them for many years?!?! I doubt it.
Like I said - do your homework and then make an educated comment about it all.
Wake up everybody

Adelaide, Australia

#14 May 4, 2010
Iron Ore wrote:
stupid hippies
stupid ignoramus
HarryPotter

Melbourne, Australia

#15 May 4, 2010
Wake up everybody wrote:
<quoted text>
Mate, it erks me to even reply to someone who obviously knows little about the whole industry. Of course I know animal welfare costs money! I fork out quite a bit from my own pocket and I do a lot of volunteer work with rescue animals. And if it weren't for human's stupidity, ignorance and greed, there wouldn't be the need for so much money to be sourced for their rehabilitation in the first place!
For you to compare "domesticated" lions with cats and dogs is absolutely ridiculous, let alone say that anything I said previously would suggest that I think all cats and dogs should be "out in the wild". That said, many of them are, due to our lack of responsibility over the years. But that's another conversation...
If you were to actually do your homework, the evolution of how certain animals became domestic pets has not only taken thousands of years, but came about by co-dependency. I doubt any one of these lions rocked up on the doorstep of Stardust Circus looking for a feed.
So you seem to have entirely missed the point here. Saying that these animals are "domesticated" and "well looked after" or "better off" only validates them being kept in circuses and therefore perpetuates the problem by encouraging these idiots to source more of them for entertainment purposes.
The reason intelligent people are against animals in circuses at all is because it is a cruel, unnatural environment for them (yes, even dogs! My dog's smart enough to do tricks but I wouldn't charge people to watch him and force him do it repeatedly on a daily basis for the sake of my own greed!) and one which they should not be put in in the first place. I really don't know why it is so difficult for certain people to see that.
And as for the argument that these animals are too dependant on people to ever survive in "the wild", nobody is suggesting they are thrown back into an African desert somewhere to fend for themselves. They would be placed in the care of a suitable sanctuary where they are free to exist in a more natural environment, yet still under the watchful eye of people who actually respect them. Circus animals worldwide have been rescued and rehabilitaed this way with great success and, ultimately, to the benefit of the animals themselves, who immediately begin to show signs of their instinctive behaviour once given the chance. Do you really think that you, or some lion tamer who makes money from them, is better equipped in deciding what's best for these lions than people who have studied and rescued them for many years?!?! I doubt it.
Like I said - do your homework and then make an educated comment about it all.
These sanctuaries make money from charging people to gawk at the animals. Oh they are just doing it for the animals' best welfare. Tell that to their CEOs. What is so natural about wild animals being regularly fed instead of finding it themselves and being confined to a space? The majority of these animals are being artificially bred because these animals have the intelligence to know they are in a prison. This is being done to prevent them from extinction but bred in limits their gene pool and does not produce a future health stock.

Evolution has taken its course over billions of years. Mankind has intervened in evolution for various reasons for thousands of years.

These last remaining circuses with performing animals in Australia, will not be allowed to continue once the animals die. The RSPCA has been monitoring them.

As you know the RSPCA is the major animal rights body in this country. So what's with the hysterics genius?
Animal lover

United States

#16 May 4, 2010
What the hell kind of resort do you think the wild is????ALL animals in captivity are not being mistreated!Look at all the things happening to animals in the wild!!!. While there are some bad traveling circuses out there that need to be shut down(Davenports), I will never think that zoos and aquariums are mistreating animals. I volunteer in a aquarium and I assure you I am not mistreating animals. I LOVE animals. Would you take your pets out in the country and just turn them loose?Does anyone here know how cruel that would be???Animals that have been in captivity all their lives for know how to fight and kill for food while something else is fighting and trying to kill them in the wild!!!!!Think about what you are saying.
Wake up everybody

Adelaide, Australia

#17 May 4, 2010
1)The RSPCA's hands are tied by law. It doesn't mean they ALLOW this to continue.
2)And if Stardust Circus animals are so happy, why did one of their elephants recently kill their caretaker?
Here you go, read these....genius.

http://www.rspcavic.org/campaigns_news/campai...

http://gcc.tas.gov.au/HTML/c240706-Item16-A1....

http://www.animalliberation.org.au/circuses.p...

http://www.animalcircuses.com/

http://www.animalcircuses.com/news.aspx...
Frank

United States

#18 May 4, 2010
I guess you think the whale that killed it's trainer was mistreated also?I know trainers(at least the Aquarium kind)and I know they do not mistreat the whales.
I do believe Queenie was mistreated and Tina and Jewel but no i don't think they aLL do
Wake up everybody

Adelaide, Australia

#19 May 4, 2010
Frank wrote:
I guess you think the whale that killed it's trainer was mistreated also?I know trainers(at least the Aquarium kind)and I know they do not mistreat the whales.
I do believe Queenie was mistreated and Tina and Jewel but no i don't think they aLL do
I'm not saying all trainers mistreat the animals. I know many of them genuinely care about them. The point is that they are in an unnatural, frustrating and limiting environment, and no amount of "care" is going to replace that or prevent some of these animals eventually being so outraged and confused by it that they lash out. Their instincts are being quashed...
Frank

United States

#20 May 4, 2010
How happy are those animals in the Gulf this minute?or beig hunted in Africa for ivory, or Sarah Palin's shooting at the poor wolves from airplanes,etc.
Yes the wild is just glorious. I'll take the zoo's healthcare plan

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