Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings

Mar 20, 2014 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Daily Press & Argus

When Vanessa Willock wanted an Albuquerque photographer to shoot her same-sex commitment ceremony in 2006, she contacted Elane Photography.

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861 - 880 of 2,815 Comments Last updated May 12, 2014

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#868 Mar 28, 2014
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait...now you've moved on from anti-discrimination laws to ALL laws?
Are you really saying there should be no laws?
There should be no laws that violate the rights of the individual. Responsible peaceful consenting adult individuals do not need the government micromanaging their lives. You should decide whom you marry not those morons in Congress who vote on it. What an outrage that there was a vote of gay marriage. If two people want to get married, it is not the business of the government if they are both men. If we lived in a free country your right to get married would never be voted on. Your right to marry is voted on because government is full of criminals, hooligans ad con-artists who only care about themselves and how much money they can make for their crony friends.

Of course we need laws. We need laws to punish people from dumping pollution in our rivers for one thing. But we do not need laws preventing two men from getting married. Can you think of a law we do need and one we don't? There are 2.5 million of them to choose from.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#869 Mar 28, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Punitive laws aren't to passed so competent citizens can run their own lives, they're passed to punish those who CAN'T run their own lives without causing harm to someone else.
That is entirely subjective Sheepie. We both know that you consider the overwhelming vast majority of people to be incapable of running their own lives. You consider people to be harmed when they do something you do not approve of. And you do not see how much harm you cause in the world advocating for the government to micromanage all our lives from the moment we are born until we die. You think the government owns us and I say we own the government. I say you have it assed backwards.

If people make mistakes they should be held accountable. If a man marries two woman, you assert [because you are batshitt crazy], that a child is hurt because when a man marries two consenting female adults a child is raped. You are incapable of a reasoned discussion, and I am only answering you now because I have had three margaritas.

If you want to discuss child rape I will discuss it, if you want to discuss polygamy, I'll discuss that too. But when you carry on AS IF polygamy is child rape then I am going to say pedophilia is the same thing as homosexuality. I know it isn't the same thing but if you insist on being stupid and unreasonable I will have to get as stupid as you are. I will feel bad that the nice and normal gays in here will see it but it is up to you.

So to continue on. If you want a pound of marijuana and your have $2,000 and I want $2,000 and have a pound of premium California wine country buds, and we each voluntarily exchange with one another, why is it any of the governments business?

Now, think carefully about if you want a long, long, long list of gay people who have been arrested for pedophilia instead of a simple answer: No the government does not need to be involved in the peaceful exchanges of consenting voluntary adults.

Now let us say a woman has a nice body, and wants $200 and a man has $200 and is horny. The two, both adult individuals, agree to a peaceful mutually agreeable exchange. He would like to use her body instead of his hand for some sexual recreation and she is willing to let him in exchange for his $200. Now, why does the government need to be involved in the peaceful exchanges between voluntary consenting adults?

If you say because 13 year old girls get raped I'll go look for that article about the two gay men who bought a 2 month old baby boy for $8,000 and rented him out for old men to have sex with.

Understand?

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#870 Mar 28, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
So then I'm not free because I can't kill or rape or pillage & plunder to my heart's content?
Clearly you're an anarchist moron.
You are not free, not one is, to violate the rights of others. Killing someone violates their right to life. Please tell the women in here that being raped does not violate their rights. And tell the people who have been robbed that their rights to keep what they have is irrelevant because your special gay rights trump their right to keep what they own. Go ahead. Please explain that to us all.

Actually, please tell Rose why her getting raped would not be a violation of her rights.

You refuse to make a distinction between peaceful voluntary actions between consenting adults and the use of force and violence against an unwilling individual. You always do this and that makes normal conversation impossible.

Where does this right you assert come from that allows you to rape, rob and kill and why you insist it doesn't violate the rights of the raped, robbed and murdered.

I said you have the right to liberty and freedom and what you heard was you have the right to violate the rights of others. You refuse to be clear on this.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#871 Mar 28, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
They agree to follow the rules of the state in which they are running their business.
Just like you agreed to hand over your wallet at the ATM at 3am when a thug points a gun at you and says, "your money or your life". You had the choice not to give him your wallet Sheepie so don't complain you were robbed. You had a choice. You had a choice, you had a choice.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#872 Mar 28, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
And the state allowing discrimination is just one step away from the state REQUIRING discrimination. It all depends on the people in charge of the state as we say throughout the south in the last century.
Because the state can flip flop, the problem is the state not following the Constitution. You just shot yourself in the foot again Sheepie. Gay marriage is just one step away from the state allowing polygamy. Or how about, allowing gay marriage is just one step away from REQUIRING gay marriage.

Remember my little ditty: We need a law prohibiting straight men from saying no to the sexual advances of gay men. Gay people get their feelings hurt when straight men say no to their sexual advances and the Government exists to end discrimination against gays so it is logically consistent to extend the anti discrimination laws to prohibit straight men from saying no to any sexual demands made on them by gays. We must bring an end to gay people being offended in any way. I am sick and tired of all my gay friends having their feeling hurt by not being able to have everything they want the way they want it.

The Constitution is in charge of the state which is why the state has destroyed the Constitution.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#873 Mar 28, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct, the baker refused to provide a cake TO A SAME-SEX COUPLE, because they were a same-sex couple.
The event was irrelevant.
Something every baker in America has an innate right to do. There are what Sheepie, 10 million bakeries in America? And one of them refused to bake a gay wedding cake? ONE!

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#874 Mar 28, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
But the people buying the cake and having the wedding ARE obviously people, and they have rights too.
Yes they do have rights and their rights end where the bakers rights begin. I know this confuses you just like the difference between consenting and violating confuses you. And the difference between a Republic and a Democracy confuses you. Damn Sheepie, you are confused about a lot of things.

Where do your rights end and where do my rights begin?

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#875 Mar 28, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
But the PEOPLE in those events DO have rights.
Everyone has rights Sheepie, and it is wrong to violate another person's rights.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#876 Mar 28, 2014
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, to have an event of their choosing-but not to command people's labor in service to those events.
That is something that Sheepie has not understood for a couple of years now. I congratulate you for taking the time to explain it, but honestly you need to provide some examples.

Like, I have the right to throw my arms around all I want, but should my fist hit your nose I have violated your rights. My rights ended before your nose begins. You have the right to have a wedding cake at your wedding but you do not have the right to force me to bake it for you.

Sheepie is in desperate need of some good examples. After my third margarita I am ready to go turn on the TV.

“Common sense prevails.”

Since: Mar 14

3rd rock from the sun.

#877 Mar 28, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
That is entirely subjective........

I have had three margaritas........

I am going to say pedophilia is the same thing as homosexuality........

I know it isn't the same thing but it is up to you.........

Understand?
You're threatening to be a troll? ROFL, that's all you've been doing since your very first post.

Troll on drunken little man, troll on.

Oh, we understand all right;0)

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#878 Mar 28, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
That is something that is taught in the government indoctrination centers where people are brainwashed.
Good grief...
Fundies R Mentally Eel

Philadelphia, PA

#879 Mar 28, 2014
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Right.
From the Act:
"Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination because of race, color, religion, or national origin in certain places of public accommodation, such as hotels, restaurants, and places of entertainment."
http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/hce/housing_...
Slightly narrower definition that "any place that's open to the public".
You have purposefully mis represented who was arguing what.

It was the other right wing moron who claimed that "places of public accommodations" as a concept has been enlarged over the past decades.

A pro lgbt poster quoted a legal description showing that not to be the case.

Go ask your mommy where babies come from and leave these issues under discussion to others.
Fundies R Mentally Eel

Philadelphia, PA

#880 Mar 28, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
There should be no laws that violate the rights of the individual.
There are competing interests. Therefore there are laws which regulate "individual" rights where there's a governmental interest.

What you think "should" be the case is beside the point since you cannot even understand the very basic premise of the First Amendment, for starters, because you are completely bonkers.
Fundies R Mentally Eel

Philadelphia, PA

#881 Mar 28, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Laws are the threats of moron's written down on paper.
Nice jump off the deep end, loon, particularly since you tried to invoke the First Amendment, certainly a law, albeit in a completely ignorant and screwed up way.

The way everything you invoke comes out with a heaping helping of crazy.
BS Detector

Sherman Oaks, CA

#883 Mar 29, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
I certainly have noticed that. Good point. Hopefully FundieR will read more than the first 5 words of your post.
Doubtful.

He's positively desperate to beat at something -- ANYTHING. He never will as long as his bigotry and stupidity keep him being dishonest... and, of course, stupid. The positive thing is some posters with whom I have disagreed had the integrity and absolute decency to engage in a legitimate exchange of ideas. One even claimed that if he agreed with me one more time, he would be sick. Okay, that was a slight/thorough misquote, but the way he put it was funny and thoroughly gracious. Would that we could enjoy more civility even when we disagree. I think Fundies is beyond hope... or maybe even intense and prolonged therapy.

Do they still do electro shock therapy?
BS Detector

Sherman Oaks, CA

#884 Mar 29, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
The gay couple does not deserve the right to be happy if their happiness depends on the suffering of others. The baker refused to do something he did not want to do. The gay couple was wrong, horribly wrong, to blow this up into what it has become.
There is no right to force bakers to bake you cakes. There is no right to force anyone to do anything.
Why are you incapable of running your life Sheepie? Why do you need people to run it for you? Why do you vote for people to run your life? Who end up running every ones life? You are a threat to humanity. And you are living proof that the government was successful in turning out another authoritarian clone.
I think an argument might be made based on the Commerce Clause. And EVERYBODY deserves to pursue happiness. Happiness not a right, of course, but basic humanity supports it. The gay couple was absolutely justified in bringing an action. And if the baker is a nut job, I don't much care if he's unhappy by making others needlessly unhappy.

And there is plenty of precedent that people can be forced to do things. The military draft, Obamacare, following the law, etc., etc., etc. True, some want their lives to be run by Big Brother. I, for one, do not and will resist said Brother until they pry my freedom and rights from my cold dead hand. When I entered the military, I swore to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.. Some on the uber lunatic fringe, like this baker, Westboro Baptist, and some of the nut jobs in here (like Fundies and Sheeple, are enemies domestic.

I will continue to defend my country against them.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#885 Mar 29, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
The gay couple's rights end where the bakers rights begin. It is wrong for the government to play favorites and give special rights to certain groups.
Then the baker's rights end where the gay couple's rights begin.

The problem arises when there are competing rights like in these cases- i.e. 1st amendment versus equal protection & due process. When that happens, someone has to decide whose rights prevail and whose rights are curtailed.

That's why we have a judiciary.

(not that an anarchist such as yourself would understand that)

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#886 Mar 29, 2014
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> The gay couple was absolutely justified in bringing an action. And if the baker is a nut job, I don't much care if he's unhappy by making others needlessly unhappy..
The gay couple may have justified bringing an action to themselves and the gay community but they have no moral justification or right to force anyone to do anything. The baker has his right to association and that includes the right NOT to associate.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#887 Mar 29, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Businesses are owned by people. It is the individual who has rights not his business. And the customers rights end where the business owners rights begin.
And who decides when there are competing rights, as in these cases?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#888 Mar 29, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheepie has been very clear that nothing should happen with out the government being involved. Sheepie does not want any of us making our own decisions, he has repeatedly stressed the importance and necessity of obeying those sociopathic nutcases who believe they have a divine right to rules over us. So my question is a valid one deserving an answer!
Why does Sheepie believe that the criminals in congress can run his life better than he can. He also believes that the government should be telling you how you should be living your life as well. He thinks we are all incapable and too incompetent to know the right thing to do, so he wants the government he loves and worships to rule over every aspect of our lives from the moment we are born until the moment of our death. Ask him.
I want government to stop screwing us over and Sheepie wants it to continue at a faster rate.
Nope, still wrong.

I simply understand that in a free society there will be times when individual rights will come into conflict, and we need a system to resolve those conflicts.

That's why we have a judiciary.

I realize that doesn't fit your anarchist view of America, but that's the system of government we have.

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