Justices may decide if vendors can sn...

Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings

There are 2815 comments on the Daily Press & Argus story from Mar 20, 2014, titled Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings. In it, Daily Press & Argus reports that:

When Vanessa Willock wanted an Albuquerque photographer to shoot her same-sex commitment ceremony in 2006, she contacted Elane Photography.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Press & Argus.

Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#2198 Apr 17, 2014
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
So what other bigotry should go unchallenged in our public schools?
Speaking from my personal experience, there was no bigotry toward gays in the public schools. What is there to be challenged?

Watch this video.


I side with the black guy 100%.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#2199 Apr 17, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Our rights are not "determined" therefore you do not understand anything except that government is your God.
Then I have the right to crap in your yard.

Good to know.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#2200 Apr 17, 2014
Wondering wrote:
Speaking from my personal experience, there was no bigotry toward gays in the public schools. What is there to be challenged?
Watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =z2RwfWFRwvYXX
I side with the black guy 100%.
Why would you try to EXCUSE the exclusion of gay people from anti-bullying measures? Why try so hard to make SURE that bullying of gays remains acceptable?

The most telling part of your (three-year-old) video came at the 4:30 mark:

"The kids with traditional values are the ones that are considered bullies, and no one’s there to advocate for them."

I expect you see nothing wrong with this statement. You likely see it as perfectly valid to label some people's values as "traditional", thereby devaluing anyone who holds any other view.

And what are those "traditional" values which seem to require advocacy? Do they have anything to do with preventing gay people from serving openly in the military? Or with building legal walls to marriage or adoption? Why is it "traditional" for one child to say to another "Eww, your mom's a lesbian!" How is THAT some precious "value" that must be protected?

A handful of parents complained that it should be THEIR jobs to teach their kids social skills, not the school's. Well, they aren't doing it! Some of the parents are teaching their kids that their fellow citizens are EVIL because they're different. They're teaching that gay people SHOULD be vilified and ostracized and legally disenfranchised. THIS is what they call "traditional values". Disgusting.

Do they have a RIGHT to teach their kids whatever anti-social, inhumane nonsense they want? Of course. But they have no right to expect the rest of us to sit around and do NOTHING while they manufacture future bigots. Schools have a DUTY to produce productive, well-adjusted citizens from the children in their care, and I don't see any problem with including some sensible social skills in that education. Teach your kids at home that it's fine and dandy to devalue other human beings based on their differences, if that's what you consider a "traditional value". But expect the rest of us to CHANGE that tradition for a better world.

All we really need to know about the "traditional values" of the people who champion anti-gay sentiment is in the opening lines of your video...

"Remember the Good Old Days when it was Homer Simpson who taught parents how to talk to their kids about bullying?"

Homer. Effing. Simpson.

Yeah, I think it was about time the schools stepped in.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#2201 Apr 17, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh please, do you expect me to fall for your intentional argumentative antagonistic blah blah blah after you have just admitted you do not post honestly but only post to harass and irritate?
Keep telling yourself you have a right to enter my property and kill my dog. I am waiting for you.
Who are you to say I don't have that right?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#2202 Apr 17, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
It isn't me who does not understand that, it is Comrade Sheepie. He insists he has a right to trespass onto your property, walk into your house, your bedroom, and kill your dog.
Comrade sheepie says his rights do NOT stop at the tip of your nose. And that instead of common sense and decency we must tie up the courts with his insanity that his rights are unlimited and do not stop at your nose.
You are exactly right and comrade sheepie needs to be told.
Let's try this another way, with a simple example for your simple mind:

You have the right to walk down the sidewalk, and I have the right to walk down the sidewalk. So if we are walking toward each other and their isn't room for us to pass side-by-side, when we meet face to face whose right prevails?

Do you have to step aside to let me pass, or do I have to step aside to let you pass?

Whose right prevails?

Whose right will be infringed?

Who decides?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#2203 Apr 17, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking from my personal experience, there was no bigotry toward gays in the public schools. What is there to be challenged?
Watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =z2RwfWFRwvYXX
I side with the black guy 100%.
Then you had your head stuck up your ass.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#2204 Apr 17, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
"Remember the Good Old Days when it was Homer Simpson who taught parents how to talk to their kids about bullying?"
Homer. Effing. Simpson.
Were you expecting an intelligent argument from Wondering? If so, I think you may have had unrealistic expectations.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#2205 Apr 17, 2014
lides wrote:
Were you expecting an intelligent argument from Wondering? If so, I think you may have had unrealistic expectations.
D'oh!

“Common sense prevails.”

Since: Mar 14

3rd rock from the sun.

#2206 Apr 17, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Gay activists are trying to change that. They attempt to educate 5 year old kids in public elementary schools even when parents are opposed to this 'education.'
They teach kids to be 'open minded.' That homosexuality is like a new kind of vegetable. You won't know if you like it unless you try it. 2:22 into this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =ZrZJpt-tGxIXX
You poor little hysterical fool, quick, grab your smelling salts!

Open minded, yes. Letting kids know that it exists, yes. Some children have two mommies or two daddies, it's nothing to be afraid of. Don't run and hide (like YOU) or stick your head in the sand (like YOU) or get hysterical (like YOU).

Do you think they are teaching kids to try it for themselves??? No, that's not what they are doing. It exists, try getting to know different kinds of people so you'll know if you like them or not. That's ALL they're saying.

The little boy came up with his own analogy as he understands it, now go put on some dry panties.
BS Detector

Sherman Oaks, CA

#2207 Apr 17, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's try this another way, with a simple example for your simple mind:
You have the right to walk down the sidewalk, and I have the right to walk down the sidewalk. So if we are walking toward each other and their isn't room for us to pass side-by-side, when we meet face to face whose right prevails?
Do you have to step aside to let me pass, or do I have to step aside to let you pass?
Whose right prevails?
Whose right will be infringed?
Who decides?
Knock me over with a feather! An excellent post! Bravo!
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#2208 Apr 18, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you try to EXCUSE the exclusion of gay people from anti-bullying measures? Why try so hard to make SURE that bullying of gays remains acceptable?
What caused you to draw that conclusion? Why do gays always draw that conclusion?
What part of ALL children do you not understand? Why do you think gays should be emphasized in anti-bullying policy? Do you feel that a gay child or a child with gay parents are of more value than other children? Are they worthy of more protection than the other kids?
What does a book like "And Tango Makes Three" have to do with bullying?
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#2209 Apr 18, 2014
DebraE wrote:
Letting kids know that it exists, yes.
Really? Are you that stupid?
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#2210 Apr 18, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you had your head stuck up your ass.
It didn't happen, period. Not in my 12 years of public school nor in the 12 years each of my kids spent in public school. Are there other things you see that aren't really there?
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#2211 Apr 18, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
The most telling part of your (three-year-old) video came at the 4:30 mark:
What I came away with was the sense of urgency to address rampant gay bullying by the two gay men followed by the school administrator's inability to provide any data confirming that it's actually happening. In fact, FBI research was done that showed it was a minor problem across the country and no problem at all in grades 1 through 5.

Do kids say things like "that's so gay?" Sure. They also call others fatso, pimple puss, 4 eyes, and many other things.

Your pointing out that the video was 3 years old was also interesting. So what? Has gay bullying gone crazy in the last 3 years?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#2212 Apr 18, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
What caused you to draw that conclusion? Why do gays always draw that conclusion?
What part of ALL children do you not understand? Why do you think gays should be emphasized in anti-bullying policy? Do you feel that a gay child or a child with gay parents are of more value than other children? Are they worthy of more protection than the other kids?
What does a book like "And Tango Makes Three" have to do with bullying?
Bullies target those they perceive as different and/or lesser than they are. Books which emphasize that a child of gay parents or a gay kid are no different than anyone else can help lessen that perception. The same way a book about a mixed race family or a Jewish family can help kids understand that being different isn't a bad thing.

The greatest factor in the increased acceptance of gays & lesbians over the past decades has been exposure to openly gay & lesbian family members, friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc. Just as with race & religious & ethnic diversity, it's a lot harder to hate those you know & love.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#2213 Apr 18, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
It didn't happen, period. Not in my 12 years of public school nor in the 12 years each of my kids spent in public school. Are there other things you see that aren't really there?
B.S. Then you must have gone to the ONLY school in the nation where no kid was ever taunted & called a "sissy" or "fem" or "queer" or "Nancy-boy" or "fag" etc.

More likely it proves those with a bias seldom see bigotry, just as racists don't see racism- even when they're the ones committing the offense. Just because you may have been oblivious to the anti-gay bias doesn't mean it wasn't right in front of your face.

Btw, how many openly gay or lesbians kids did you go to school with back in the day? How many kids with same-sex parents did you or you kids go to school with?

Once again you demonstrate just how much your own bias blinds.

I'd suggest you pick up a copy of "And Tango Makes Three" and start reading...

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#2214 Apr 18, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Then I have the right to crap in your yard.
Good to know.
Why not, you crap in Topix about 1,000 times a day. You and your identical twin BSDetractor.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#2215 Apr 18, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
The greatest factor in the increased acceptance of gays & lesbians over the past decades has been exposure to openly gay & lesbian family members, friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc. Just as with race & religious & ethnic diversity, it's a lot harder to hate those you know & love.
And with you it is just the opposite, the more straights spend time around you the more convinced they become that homosexuality really is a mental illness which is why I say you harm the gay community. I am glad gays are starting to join the chorus against your sociopathic paranoia and other authoritarian non-sense. The more I know you the more I hate you.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#2216 Apr 18, 2014
Wondering wrote:
What caused you to draw that conclusion? Why do gays always draw that conclusion?
Because you've got no reason to oppose efforts to end this bullying, yet you still oppose it. This opposition is always couched in phrases like "let the parents teach this". Don't think I'm so naive that I don't understand what that means. It means these particular parents want to be free to teach that gay people are evil. They aren't taking their children home to secretly teach that everyone is equal. That can be taught out in the open. Equality doesn't need to be restrained, and taught at home. The reason it needs to be taught in schools is because it's NOT being taught at home.

We don't draw our conclusions from ONE comment or just one video alone. It is a vast collective of anti-gay propaganda that leads us to our conclusions. This was hardly the only video you've posted, and none of them have had a benign tone to them. The last one I watched from you ended with the ominous (and utterly ridiculous) warning: What if everyone in the world were gay? The human race would cease to exist!

Want us to stop reaching this conclusion? THEN STOP FEAR MONGERING. Asking what horrors would be unleashed if suddenly everyone were gay, is an easy way to thresh up fear and hatred among people who already hate gays. It allows them to ignore the fact that some people ARE gay, and pretend that instead of an uncommon characteristic of a small portion of the population, we actually represent an epidemic of mental illness that everyone might be susceptible to unless we are stopped.

If you don't want to see us draw these conclusions, then DISTANCE yourself from these hateful videos and this hateful speech. Don't PROMOTE them.
Wondering wrote:
What part of ALL children do you not understand? Why do you think gays should be emphasized in anti-bullying policy?
If you oppose ANY bullying, then you should support ANY efforts to end it.
Wondering wrote:
Do you feel that a gay child or a child with gay parents are of more value than other children? Are they worthy of more protection than the other kids?
When they're killing themselves at 4 times the rate of their straight counterparts? Maybe so.
Wondering wrote:
What does a book like "And Tango Makes Three" have to do with bullying?
It helps humanize people who are commonly dehumanized. Books like this begin children thinking of gay people as fellow citizens, rather than abominable enemies of humanity.
Wondering wrote:
FBI research was done that showed it was a minor problem across the country and no problem at all in grades 1 through 5.
Then that sounds like a good time to begin teaching tolerance, BEFORE there's a problem.

Once these kids hit SIXTH grade, puberty is going to set in. Some of them are going to be gay, and it's important for their peers to understand that they are still people just like everyone else. They will understand this better if they already know it going INTO puberty. It doesn't serve anyone to wait until some kids have already made a practice out of dehumanizing homosexuals.
Wondering wrote:
Do kids say things like "that's so gay?" Sure. They also call others fatso, pimple puss, 4 eyes, and many other things.
There needs to be an emphasis on ending ALL bullying, but I don't see anyone running around saying that fat people are a danger to your children, or posting videos that frighten people into worrying what would happen if we all needed glasses. Some bullying impugns millions of people, and some bullies never outgrow spreading hate against certain targets.
Wondering wrote:
Your pointing out that the video was 3 years old was also interesting. So what? Has gay bullying gone crazy in the last 3 years?
Because these pleas to end the "gay agenda" get older and older. It's a dying concept. Let it.
BS Detector

Sherman Oaks, CA

#2217 Apr 18, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not, you crap in Topix about 1,000 times a day. You and your identical twin BSDetractor.
Identical twin? With Sheeple? That one is a new height of dishonesty, even for you.

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