Same-Sex Marriage Trumps Religious Li...

Same-Sex Marriage Trumps Religious Liberty in New Mexico

There are 1050 comments on the The Heritage Foundation story from Aug 22, 2013, titled Same-Sex Marriage Trumps Religious Liberty in New Mexico. In it, The Heritage Foundation reports that:

Earlier today, the Supreme Court of New Mexico ruled that the First Amendment does not protect a Christian photographer's ability to decline to take pictures of a same-sex commitment ceremony-even when doing so would violate the photographer's deeply held religious beliefs.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Heritage Foundation.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#720 Oct 10, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
The question is WHY do you insist that EVERYONE live by your religious beliefs? I mean IF ya don't then kindly keep your religious beliefs OUTTA of my Government business....thanks!!!
Because you insist that everyone live by YOUR ideology. Why don't you keep your ideals out of MY government? I'll be glad to keep my religious beliefs out of it, as well. But as long as you insist you ideology is better than ours, we have a problem.

Separation of ideology and state, the modern equivalent of a separation of church and state.

Otherwise, we'll just push our religion since you keep pushing yours. ;)
More

Huntsville, AL

#721 Oct 10, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
.
ignorant bigotry

“Not everything that shines...”

Since: Aug 13

Hatch, NM

#722 Oct 11, 2014
now, now, comentators of such a stupendous reality. Slavery was wrong from the beginning as it denies one's human rights and that ain't cool. Human Rights got to fight for them. Equality in marriage, that's different, as religious rights come in, look at those women with their faces covered or else. Males have the right to lash them for every single hair out of place. Stupid! Human ignorance. If in my next life I come as an Arab woman, What would I do? Never mind, just the thought is revolting. Religion, how far to accept 'equal-same sex- marriage ? NEVER.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#723 Oct 12, 2014
Rights and institutions are two entirely separate issues. Slavery is an issue of rights, or the lack thereof. But entering into an institution, such as marriage, government, labor union, guild, or whatever, is entering into a contract or agreement and giving up rights, not receiving them.

Everyone has a right to be left alone. That is basically what life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is, the right to be left alone. In addition, it's the right to use deadly force to be left alone. Self-defense against both murder and kidnapping.

Entering into some sort of agreement with someone else is submission to an authority. You want to be president of the USA? You submit to the constitution and the people. You want to work for Coca-Cola? You submit to a boss. You want to be a police officer? You submit to police authority and public scrutiny. You want to be part of a family via marriage? You submit to a husband. You want to be part of a church? You submit to their dogma and rules. That's how it works.

You have only the civil right not to participate. You don't have any right whatsoever to define marriage for other people, or for you own selfish ends. The State must either recognize all kinds of marriages defined by different religions, or it must recognize none of them and remain neutral, and leave it strictly to religion to manage. It never had, and never will have, the right to redefine marriage universally for all based on what one minority believes it should be.

There is no argument, and no debate.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#724 Oct 12, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Because you insist that everyone live by YOUR ideology. Why don't you keep your ideals out of MY government? I'll be glad to keep my religious beliefs out of it, as well. But as long as you insist you ideology is better than ours, we have a problem.
Separation of ideology and state, the modern equivalent of a separation of church and state.
Otherwise, we'll just push our religion since you keep pushing yours. ;)
Actually, I DON'T......however, I do EXPECT that one allows others the same right and choice to their religious beliefs as is given to Evangelistic Fundamentalist..No one's religious is more right than another's....and you DON'T have ANY idea what my personal religious beliefs are and I NEVER force them on anyone nor do I expect the Government to follow it.

Now, if we are discussion one's right to marry......yes, the Government can NOT grant some "SPECIAL" rights to some while denying others that same right....i.e Marriage!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#725 Oct 12, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
. You want to be part of a family via marriage? You submit to a husband.
You have only the civil right not to participate. You don't have any right whatsoever to define marriage for other people, or for you own selfish ends.
Actually, this is where you are in ERROR......if one wants to be part of a family, they can define that family ANY way they want to and it DOESN'T have to involve a father or a husband.......you DON'T get to define what is considered a family....you have the right to define your family and that's ALL!!

Neither you nor the State get to put gender restrictions on marriage, Marriage is a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT and ONLY the individuals involved in their particular relationship and want to marry have the RIGHT to decide that, as long as they meet the requirements that the State sets!!!

I am NOT defining marriage for you, nor the State, that being said, NEITHER you nor the State get to EXCLUDE me from my FUNDAMENTAL right to marry just because the person I choose to marry is someone of the same gender as myself......that is the ONLY reason why we have 31 States that now clearly ACKNOWLEDGE that marriage can NOT simply exclude a person just because they DON'T fit into an institution the way you think it should be!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#726 Oct 12, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Why? You will ignore it. Just take any gender studies course at a university. Gender is a choice, or did you miss the all the many new flavors people can choose to call themselves these days? LOL!
<quoted text>
Wrong again....Gender is innate, one is either a boy or a girl....even a Transgender person is either a boy or a girl and when both the inside and outside are a union, the person will be either a boy or a girl.......and gender has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation or attraction. People have the right to identify themselves as they please.......just as long as they are honest to the person they choose to have an intimate relationship with.

Again, you are trying to tell others about something you know NOTHING about and that is their life and choices.

You really should read the studies on Pedophiles. It seriously is a sexual orientation, but NOT all who identify as a Pedophile will act on it......and if they do, then they are a Child Molester and those folks DON'T typically care about the gender of their victims, just how vulnerable the child is. The Pedophile is attracted to children under the age of puberty, while the Hebephile is attracted to children past the age of puberty, but NOT an adult. Terminology is important to know in order to help identify the perpetrator. A Child Molester is out to harm children regardless of gender and frankly in my opinion the laws need to be stricter when children are involved!!!

There are many sexual identities besides heterosexual and homosexual....there's Monosexual, Asexual, Bisexual and Pansexual....my guess is there's probably some I haven't mentioned.......but then, it's NOT my business as long as it is consensual between the adults!!!

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#727 Oct 12, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I DON'T......however, I do EXPECT that one allows others the same right and choice to their religious beliefs as is given to Evangelistic Fundamentalist..No one's religious is more right than another's....and you DON'T have ANY idea what my personal religious beliefs are and I NEVER force them on anyone nor do I expect the Government to follow it.
Now, if we are discussion one's right to marry......yes, the Government can NOT grant some "SPECIAL" rights to some while denying others that same right....i.e Marriage!!
By claiming that marriage is a "right" you indeed push your ideals upon the rest of us. Rights are based upon ideals. Originally upon the philosophers from the Age of Reason, often from religion. The Druids, not the kings, decided what the rights of the Celts were, and defined marriage then ... not the king.

In fact, that any government, king, or president could ever define marriage is utterly absurd. But that is a unique ideology you appear to espouse here. We don't accept your ideals with regards to marriage, and therefore, reject them.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#728 Oct 12, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, this is where you are in ERROR......if one wants to be part of a family, they can define that family ANY way they want to and it DOESN'T have to involve a father or a husband.......you DON'T get to define what is considered a family....you have the right to define your family and that's ALL!!
Neither you nor the State get to put gender restrictions on marriage, Marriage is a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT and ONLY the individuals involved in their particular relationship and want to marry have the RIGHT to decide that, as long as they meet the requirements that the State sets!!!
I am NOT defining marriage for you, nor the State, that being said, NEITHER you nor the State get to EXCLUDE me from my FUNDAMENTAL right to marry just because the person I choose to marry is someone of the same gender as myself......that is the ONLY reason why we have 31 States that now clearly ACKNOWLEDGE that marriage can NOT simply exclude a person just because they DON'T fit into an institution the way you think it should be!!!
LOL! No, society does. The State is it's enforcement. Just as you are using the State to force your ideas about marriage on us, we have the same right to use the State against you to defend traditional marriage ... because that is the exclusive power of the people in a democracy.

You don't get to silence us because you don't like it, or cry that we are violating your "rights" while in fact violating ours. Your definition of marriage has no philosophical, logical, or rational merit. Traditional marriage, on the other hand, has been universally defended by every tribe and nation on earth as the social construct evolved as a concept.

We not only reject your ideals. We simply recognize that it is not possible to redefine a concept at all. Pure reason and logic dictates here, not your appeals to emotion and feelings of exclusion. Being excluded is a part of life ... deal with it.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#729 Oct 12, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again....Gender is innate, one is either a boy or a girl....even a Transgender person is either a boy or a girl and when both the inside and outside are a union, the person will be either a boy or a girl.......and gender has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation or attraction. People have the right to identify themselves as they please.......just as long as they are honest to the person they choose to have an intimate relationship with.
Again, you are trying to tell others about something you know NOTHING about and that is their life and choices.
You really should read the studies on Pedophiles. It seriously is a sexual orientation, but NOT all who identify as a Pedophile will act on it......and if they do, then they are a Child Molester and those folks DON'T typically care about the gender of their victims, just how vulnerable the child is. The Pedophile is attracted to children under the age of puberty, while the Hebephile is attracted to children past the age of puberty, but NOT an adult. Terminology is important to know in order to help identify the perpetrator. A Child Molester is out to harm children regardless of gender and frankly in my opinion the laws need to be stricter when children are involved!!!
There are many sexual identities besides heterosexual and homosexual....there's Monosexual, Asexual, Bisexual and Pansexual....my guess is there's probably some I haven't mentioned.......but then, it's NOT my business as long as it is consensual between the adults!!!
I'm sorry, have you taken a gender studies course? Yes? No? Why are you arguing with me about it? Take it up with the gender movement that declare it is a choice.

I agree that everyone is either a boy or a girl. But it's still a choice whether to be masculine or feminine in accord with one's nature. Usually it's a good idea not to oppose Mother Nature.

Do you have a dog in this fight? Are you gay? Well I use to be bisexual, because I chose to be. Now I choose to be straight, because it's my choice. It doesn't matter that I can still be attracted to men as well as women, that doesn't mean I have to act on it, or should. Same reason why most pedophiles don't act on their attraction, because they know morals trumps physical pleasure and selfishness that hurts other people. Oh, yes, and pedophilia is a sexual orientation. So, are you saying they are equally protected ... or not? Or, the simple logical answer ... sexual orientation has no rights, and rights are not based upon it at all.

Sorry, but we believe the laws should be just as strict with pedophiles as with homosexuals. All sexual interaction is indeed a matter of the public good. It's the CDC's business. Every law ever passed about sexual relations was for the public good. Evidently, this little fact is overlooked as well. So if certain sexual attraction and acts leads to the harming of society in general? It gets regulated. Gender has no rights.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#730 Oct 13, 2014
Government, family, unions, political parties, guilds, corporations, etc, belong to the people, and are regulated and controlled by society. Family is micro-government of the smallest political unit. The state is the macro-government of the highest political unit. Sorry, folks, you don't get to redefine either. If you argue that such a thing as "same-sex marriage" exists, then you have to apply that to all institutions ... same-sex corporations? It does not follow. Same-sex government? What the hell is that? There is no such concept.

Whatever weird shit you want to do in privacy with consenting adults is of no concern to anyone else, though if you are hurting others or spreading disease, society is well within its rights to stop you, and regulated sexual congress as a public health concern.

This is why "gay marriage" does not exist as a concept. It's equally absurd as "gay corporation" or "gay government." No such concepts exist by logic alone. People living together for sex alone is never marriage ... it's concubinage.

Please, folks, utilize the vast resources and rich language English has to offer. And we don't need religion to argue against gay marriage. There is nothing to argue against, it simply doesn't exist.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#731 Oct 13, 2014
Firstly, we, and everyone else, should stop calling the marriage of 2 gay men or 2 gay women "same-sex marriage". It's NOT ! It's "Marriage" ! When you go to one of the county clerk's offices to obtain a marriage license, you get a "Marriage License. You do NOT get a "Same-Sex Marriage License". You get a Marriage License.

It's marriage. Gay or str8, it's still marriage.

Secondly, civil marriage has NOTHING to do with religious marriage, due to that little thing called the First Amendment. So people should stop insisting that somehow the two are one and the same and that "God is going to be angry" because of marriage equality.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#732 Oct 13, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
By claiming that marriage is a "right" you indeed push your ideals upon the rest of us. Rights are based upon ideals.
We don't accept your ideals with regards to marriage, and therefore, reject them.
Marriage IS a Fundamental right ruled as such by SCOTUS......it has NOTHING to do with what I believe or not!!!

You might want to educate yourself on the History of Marriage:
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/ar...

Here's another article/essay on the subject:
http://www.bidstrup.com/marriage.htm

You DON'T have to accept nor approve of my right to marry or that I am already married....it matters NOT.....what does matter is that both the State I live and the Federal Government DO recognize NOT only my right to marry, but WHO I choose to marry as well!!!

Reject whatever you want to reject........that is your personal right as well as your religious right....still DOESN'T change the fact that marriage is NOT governed by the Church, but the State and is considered a Civil Marriage.....and again, still your right to reject whatever the hell ya want.......I'm still MARRIED as much as ANY other couple that has a State issued Marriage License and Certificate!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#733 Oct 13, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! No, society does. The State is it's enforcement. Just as you are using the State to force your ideas about marriage on us, we have the same right to use the State against you to defend traditional marriage ... because that is the exclusive power of the people in a democracy.
You don't get to silence us because you don't like it, or cry that we are violating your "rights" while in fact violating ours. Your definition of marriage has no philosophical, logical, or rational merit. Traditional marriage, on the other hand, has been universally defended by every tribe and nation on earth as the social construct evolved as a concept.
We not only reject your ideals. We simply recognize that it is not possible to redefine a concept at all. Pure reason and logic dictates here, not your appeals to emotion and feelings of exclusion. Being excluded is a part of life ... deal with it.
No, society DOESN'T get to define family nor does the State enforce it. Nope, I have NOT forced the State to do ANYTHING regarding marriage, however the State ACKNOWLEDGED that my right to marry was a Fundamental right and I opted to exercise that right and have been happily married just over 6 years now, even after Prop 8 was passed, it still DIDN'T have an affect on my marriage:-)

Well, so far your side of this marriage issue have failed and because your side has failed, we now have 30 State who by hook or by crook do ACKNOWLEDGE that marriage is a FUNDAMENTAL right and that NO majority CAN interfere with that right!!!

We are NOT a democracy though we are a Democratic Republic and as such, we vote people in who HOPEFULLY will do their job instead of pandering to a specific agenda!!!

You really need to read the rulings by both the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals and the new ruling from a Federal Judge in Alaska......it will possibly clear up your rather ignorance thought process!!!

Being exclude from some things is a part of life like not making the Varsity Football team in High School, or the Cheerleading squad and we teach our children to deal with disappointment, HOWEVER it CAN'T be used to deny inalienable rights or more specifically FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS like marriage and procreation!!!

You have the right to file appropriate lawsuits if you feel that you have been denied a right, however your lawsuit MUST have some legal reason to have filed it or it's just a frivolous lawsuit and will be tossed. I DON'T make the rules or laws regarding what constitutes a proper lawsuit.......that is for lawyers and judges to argue over and yes, you have the right to reject what you believe my ideas are......your right, biotch all ya want about them, hell even file an animus brief with the Court....I'm sure someone will read it, but you CAN'T violate the Due Process nor Equal Protection Amendments of American Citizens........somehow, you should have been learning something about this fight for as long as it has been going on, but ya haven't......that's truly sad!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#734 Oct 13, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, have you taken a gender studies course? Yes? No? Why are you arguing with me about it? Take it up with the gender movement that declare it is a choice.
I agree that everyone is either a boy or a girl. But it's still a choice whether to be masculine or feminine in accord with one's nature. Usually it's a good idea not to oppose Mother Nature.
Do you have a dog in this fight? Are you gay? Well I use to be bisexual, because I chose to be. Now I choose to be straight, because it's my choice. It doesn't matter that I can still be attracted to men as well as women, that doesn't mean I have to act on it, or should. Same reason why most pedophiles don't act on their attraction, because they know morals trumps physical pleasure and selfishness that hurts other people. Oh, yes, and pedophilia is a sexual orientation. So, are you saying they are equally protected ... or not? Or, the simple logical answer ... sexual orientation has no rights, and rights are not based upon it at all.
Sorry, but we believe the laws should be just as strict with pedophiles as with homosexuals. All sexual interaction is indeed a matter of the public good. It's the CDC's business. Every law ever passed about sexual relations was for the public good. Evidently, this little fact is overlooked as well. So if certain sexual attraction and acts leads to the harming of society in general? It gets regulated. Gender has no rights.
I have my Masters degree in Education, more specifically gender equality issues. I've all taken a couple of courses on the brain differential between men and women.......and gender is NOT a choice no matter what some may claim....and if you have an article regarding gender as a choice.....I'd love to see it....could be interesting!!!

Again, in some it is NOT a conscious choice on whether or not one is more masculine or feminine...it simply is who they are. Children should NOT be forced to be one way or the other.....in my opinion if a boy plays with dolls...let him, it DOESN'T mean he will grow up and be feminine or Gay......and the same is true for girls..........cloths nor toys define who one is as a person...you want to make this issue bigger than it really is.

I am a Lesbian it is a part of who I am, it is innate, just like you being Bisexual who MAKES a conscious choice to be a particular way........and if you want to identify as straight, not my place to tell you it's right or wrong, but there are MANY folks out in this Country who would disagree with you regarding being Bisexual.......in my opinion you made a choice......whatever the reason, it was yours to make!!!

Being Gay, Straight, Bisexual or Lesbian is INNATE, with that being said, we all makes choices regarding who we want to be intimate with and just because one acts on an attraction DOESN'T mean they have poor morals or values nor have they sinned.........you are trying to force others to live by rules you opted to live by, and you simply can't do that. Why should a Gay man or Lesbian remain celibate just because folks like you think it's wrong or a sin? Do you know me? No, you don't.....but you make an AWFUL lot if assumptions regarding my life.

My personal feelings regarding Pedophilia and Child Molesting are NOT up for discussion, and whether I agree or not that Pedophilia is a sexual orientation or people are predisposed to it, the fact of the matter is this, a Child Molester is purposely harming innocent children and the laws and punishments should be a helluva a lot more than they currently are!!!

Sorry, but there is a HUGE difference between pedophilia and Homosexuality.........and because they are NOT the same, laws SHOULDN'T be applied the same..........no, NOT all sexual relations are a matter of public record.....hell, folks who are HIV positive have the right to privacy whether you or I agree with it!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#735 Oct 13, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
If you argue that such a thing as "same-sex marriage" exists, then you have to apply that to all institutions .
There is NO such entity known as "SAME-SEX" or "GAY" marriage, just like there is NO entity known as "INTERRACIAL" or "INTERFAITH" marriage......ALL individuals who want to marry MUST meet the State requirements......once the marriage application is filed out, money paid and is exercised will be issued a State's Marriage License/Certificate.......the license is the same regardless of whether the couple is opposite-sex, of different religious beliefs, of different races or the
Same-Sex.

Gays and Lesbians simply are fighting for the FUNDAMENTAL right to marry the person of their choosing WITHOUT regards to specific genders.

“Each Thought Creates A Reality”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#736 Oct 13, 2014
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Why? You will ignore it. Just take any gender studies course at a university. Gender is a choice, or did you miss the all the many new flavors people can choose to call themselves these days? LOL!
<quoted text>
Yeah sure. I will ignore it thus you won't cite any scientific papers to back up your comments. Just your take a gender study course at school and they will back you up. Nice try. Was that a deflection? You are shooting blanks?
here we go again

Albuquerque, NM

#737 Oct 13, 2014
oh no….the world is coming apart at the seams and the homosexual mafia extremists are at it again….let it go. Put it away….keep it in your bedroom...

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#738 Oct 13, 2014
Fa-Foxy wrote:
Firstly, we, and everyone else, should stop calling the marriage of 2 gay men or 2 gay women "same-sex marriage". It's NOT ! It's "Marriage" ! When you go to one of the county clerk's offices to obtain a marriage license, you get a "Marriage License. You do NOT get a "Same-Sex Marriage License". You get a Marriage License.
It's marriage. Gay or str8, it's still marriage.
Secondly, civil marriage has NOTHING to do with religious marriage, due to that little thing called the First Amendment. So people should stop insisting that somehow the two are one and the same and that "God is going to be angry" because of marriage equality.
The Constitution says nothing about marriage. And it's interesting how you admit that there is no such thing as "same-sex marriage" but then turn around and use "civil marriage" and "religious marriage."

How does that work? But I digress. When did the State obtain the power to redefine marriage anywhere in the world?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#739 Oct 13, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Marriage IS a Fundamental right ruled as such by SCOTUS......it has NOTHING to do with what I believe or not!!!
You might want to educate yourself on the History of Marriage:
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/ar...
Here's another article/essay on the subject:
http://www.bidstrup.com/marriage.htm
You DON'T have to accept nor approve of my right to marry or that I am already married....it matters NOT.....what does matter is that both the State I live and the Federal Government DO recognize NOT only my right to marry, but WHO I choose to marry as well!!!
Reject whatever you want to reject........that is your personal right as well as your religious right....still DOESN'T change the fact that marriage is NOT governed by the Church, but the State and is considered a Civil Marriage.....and again, still your right to reject whatever the hell ya want.......I'm still MARRIED as much as ANY other couple that has a State issued Marriage License and Certificate!!!
Right, and once again, the Court is forcing its ideology upon others by defining marriage, and not leaving it to the people.

I am very educated in history in general, and know all about marriage. The origin in language means State of Motherhood, and is universal in most, if not all, cultures. It is as a concept a procreative union that has nothing to do with the State, or gender. Your articles are merely opinions, not facts.

You have to have a license to marry ... that alone refutes it as a right. The Supreme Court appears to defend the pursuit of marriage by those that tried to deny it ... like racist people. But marriage is not for racial purity ... or gay sex. You are both wrong.

For Christians, Muslims, and other religions, marriage is absolutely governed by the moral authority, and the State is violating the Separation Clause. We are perfectly willing to remove civil marriage and the State involvement entirely, as Israel has done with its multi-cultural nation.

But you wish to push your agenda on us. Shame on you.

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