Same-Sex Marriage Trumps Religious Li...

Same-Sex Marriage Trumps Religious Liberty in New Mexico

There are 1050 comments on the The Heritage Foundation story from Aug 22, 2013, titled Same-Sex Marriage Trumps Religious Liberty in New Mexico. In it, The Heritage Foundation reports that:

Earlier today, the Supreme Court of New Mexico ruled that the First Amendment does not protect a Christian photographer's ability to decline to take pictures of a same-sex commitment ceremony-even when doing so would violate the photographer's deeply held religious beliefs.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Heritage Foundation.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#507 Sep 11, 2013
INFIDEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Am I high? I wish... I have NO problem with homosexuals. But what does a serious Christian, Muslim or Jew do about the conflict between their religion and popular culture. All three faiths outright condemn homosexuality (and adultery and idolatry...). For a serious practitioner of these faiths to collaborate with a gay person is no different than being forced to collaborate with a child molester. Gay people deserve tolerance but their is a difference between tolerance and encouragement. I don't know exactly where that line is but I know we have crossed it. The baker who refused to make the wedding cake for the gay marriage has been harassed, hounded and threatened with death as have his family members. Why aren't those people who issued the threats being caught and prosecuted for hate crimes? I don't need a lecture from the far-left to tell me who is being victimized by extremists. There is NO difference between the militant homosexual rights movement and the "decency societies" that tried to force segregation down everyones throats. Abuse and intolerance can wrap themselves in the mantle of rightiousness but it still does not make them right.
You certainly do seem to have a problem assessing and weighing differences.

Something you might consider. If those "death threats" were real the police would be on them. Consider that they might be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Flag

It would be FAR from the first time that the "conservative" opposition has done such things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Tricks

Such things are very out of character for us. It just isn't our psych.

And over a CAKE !!??!!

Get real.

“Not everything that shines...”

Since: Aug 13

Hatch, NM

#508 Sep 11, 2013
so the baker refused to bake the cake. His reason was correct as the sign you see 'we can refuse our services to anyone'. An undeniable right. Keep your cool, dudes, find another bakery that will. It might turn out to be a better deal. The cake is not the issue, found love, made a resolution, be a FAMILY. That's the way the world IS and we're not out to please everyone. Love and happiness to YOU.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#510 Sep 11, 2013
LuzAranda wrote:
so the baker refused to bake the cake. His reason was correct as the sign you see 'we can refuse our services to anyone'. An undeniable right. Keep your cool, dudes, find another bakery that will. It might turn out to be a better deal. The cake is not the issue, found love, made a resolution, be a FAMILY. That's the way the world IS and we're not out to please everyone. Love and happiness to YOU.
Except that his actions violated state anti-discrimination laws, no matter what sign he had posted.

A business open to the public must service all the public without discriminating based on race, religion, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.

If he couldn't do that, then he shouldn't have opened a business which serves the general public.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#511 Sep 11, 2013
LuzAranda wrote:
so the baker refused to bake the cake. His reason was correct as the sign you see 'we can refuse our services to anyone'. An undeniable right. Keep your cool, dudes, find another bakery that will. It might turn out to be a better deal. The cake is not the issue, found love, made a resolution, be a FAMILY. That's the way the world IS and we're not out to please everyone. Love and happiness to YOU.
Hanging such a sign doesn't change the law.

Anti-discrimination laws resulted from an understanding that when left unchecked, "Because I believe..." always results in harm to others. Segregation and Apartheid are only two of thousands of examples throughout history.

While the issues lately have focused on a cake, a photographer, a room at the Inn, use of a public shelter, and other examples, laws that allow discrimination allow denial of food, clothing, and shelter. In a small town, you may have no options. We have seen this throughout the past. Beliefs of majorities have been used denyservices in order to punish, control, and dehumanize populations unpopular to the majority.

Yes, the cake is not the issue.

Discrimination in the public square is the issue.

We are free to discriminate as we choose in our home, church, and private club. We should not be allowed to impose our discrimination on the public.

Peace.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#512 Sep 11, 2013
Equal wrote:
is what gay advocates are, equally stupid.
When relying on insults, it helps if your own post does not fulfill the pejoratives employed. It reveals you have no argument on the merits.
Infidel

Santa Fe, NM

#513 Sep 11, 2013
Neil An Blowme wrote:
<quoted text>
Actual faith???
That's funny. Somehow I bet YOUR faith is an actual faith, eh? And you think we have no tolerance for you, eh? You are alive, aren't you.... and not incarcerated. You are free to spew your paranoia on the web. If we were intolerant, your simple ass would be, um.... gone.
Your post is filled with contradictions which lead me to believe you are either very young or you are very uneducated.
My faith is an actual faith? Not exactly... I'm an infidel remember. I've traveled all over this world and lived on four different continents. I have friends who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, gay, straight, Black, Anglo, Latino, Arabic, Asian, monogamists, polygamists and those who are celibate. They run the gambit from arch-conservative to ultra-liberal. I try to be tolerant of them ALL. Your tolerance seems to extend only so far as the beliefs you agree with. I have no problem with gay marriage but the "take no prisoners" attitude associated with it is just the same old crusader mentality wrapped in a different flag. I advocate for gay employees in the workplace and saw to it that our collective bargaining agreement forbade discrimination based on sexual orientation long before New Mexico law addressed the issue. I'm on the same side of the political fence as you are but I don't like some of the ugly stuff over on this side any better than the ugly stuff on the other side.
I support gay marriage but I won't vilify it's opponents.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#514 Sep 11, 2013
Infidel wrote:
<quoted text>
My faith is an actual faith? Not exactly... I'm an infidel remember. I've traveled all over this world and lived on four different continents. I have friends who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, gay, straight, Black, Anglo, Latino, Arabic, Asian, monogamists, polygamists and those who are celibate. They run the gambit from arch-conservative to ultra-liberal. I try to be tolerant of them ALL. Your tolerance seems to extend only so far as the beliefs you agree with. I have no problem with gay marriage but the "take no prisoners" attitude associated with it is just the same old crusader mentality wrapped in a different flag. I advocate for gay employees in the workplace and saw to it that our collective bargaining agreement forbade discrimination based on sexual orientation long before New Mexico law addressed the issue. I'm on the same side of the political fence as you are but I don't like some of the ugly stuff over on this side any better than the ugly stuff on the other side.
I support gay marriage but I won't vilify it's opponents.
The fact remains, our opponents have been using the law our entire lives, to harm us in a variety of ways. They continue to seek to harm us, using the force of law. DOMA is only one of the last remaining anti-gay laws. Many of us remember when we could be arrested, imprisoned, and even tortured as well as openly beaten by police and public alike. Hate crimes continue to be more violent and the highest per capita. Police harassment continues in some areas, and by some officers in places you wouldn't expect.

Remember, the difference is only one side currently and historically has been using the law to harm the other by refusing to follow the Golden Rule.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#515 Sep 12, 2013
Infidel wrote:
<quoted text>
My faith is an actual faith? Not exactly... I'm an infidel remember. I've traveled all over this world and lived on four different continents. I have friends who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, gay, straight, Black, Anglo, Latino, Arabic, Asian, monogamists, polygamists and those who are celibate. They run the gambit from arch-conservative to ultra-liberal. I try to be tolerant of them ALL. Your tolerance seems to extend only so far as the beliefs you agree with. I have no problem with gay marriage but the "take no prisoners" attitude associated with it is just the same old crusader mentality wrapped in a different flag. I advocate for gay employees in the workplace and saw to it that our collective bargaining agreement forbade discrimination based on sexual orientation long before New Mexico law addressed the issue. I'm on the same side of the political fence as you are but I don't like some of the ugly stuff over on this side any better than the ugly stuff on the other side.
I support gay marriage but I won't vilify it's opponents.
Very good.
Neil An Blowme

Hoboken, NJ

#516 Sep 12, 2013
Infidel wrote:
<quoted text>
My faith is an actual faith? Not exactly... I'm an infidel remember. I've traveled all over this world and lived on four different continents. I have friends who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, gay, straight, Black, Anglo, Latino, Arabic, Asian, monogamists, polygamists and those who are celibate. They run the gambit from arch-conservative to ultra-liberal. I try to be tolerant of them ALL. Your tolerance seems to extend only so far as the beliefs you agree with. I have no problem with gay marriage but the "take no prisoners" attitude associated with it is just the same old crusader mentality wrapped in a different flag. I advocate for gay employees in the workplace and saw to it that our collective bargaining agreement forbade discrimination based on sexual orientation long before New Mexico law addressed the issue. I'm on the same side of the political fence as you are but I don't like some of the ugly stuff over on this side any better than the ugly stuff on the other side.
I support gay marriage but I won't vilify it's opponents.
Nice back pedaling.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#517 Sep 12, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Except of course we DO have the right to marry, in 15 states and growing.....
Just like some people use to have the "right" to own slaves.

Just because the someone corrupts the concept of rights, doesn't make it just or moral.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#518 Sep 12, 2013
Willothewisp wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the evidence-based and peer reviewed cites for your posts. Obviously the APA and SCOTUS can learn a lot from you. As everyone reading your posts are being educated as well. Pedophiles and Gay relationships are an issue of choice. Just Say No. Good thinking as usual.
Good grief, Willow

Those are common definitions available in any dictionary.

No peer-reviewed evidence necessary for understanding basic concepts. Words are not subject to peer-review.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#519 Sep 12, 2013
Willothewisp wrote:
<quoted text>
Been done on numerous posts. You have to read them first. But then it does take up space and keeps this thread alive. Maybe the seven times rule will work.
No it hasn't.

The specific argument made by a justice has not been presented at all.

No argument? No legitimacy.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#520 Sep 12, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Except of course that you're wrong as usual.
While everyone has the choice of whom they have sex with, but you have no choice who you are sexually attracted to.
You simply choose to refrain from having sex with one particular gender; you didn't choose to stop being sexually attracted to anyone.
Keep lying to yourself if that's what makes you happy.
The rest of us have that same right to be happy by accepting our natural sexual orientation.
You absolutely have the power and free will to choice who you are attracted to, or not.

And, it changes over time for a multitude of reasons, from natural procreative urges to kinky desires. or the fashion of the age.

You have no right to be happy. You have the right to PURSUE it, but no assurance that you will ever get it.

Homosexuality is never a "natural" orientation. It is a choice. So is being heterosexual, though nature tends to impose a great deal of influence for the sake of evolution.

Stop lying to yourself, and liberate your mind. You have more power than you realize.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#521 Sep 12, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think public accommodation laws are based only on characteristics which a person has no choice over?
Religion is protected and that is most definitely a choice.
The comparison of sexual orientation to race remains valid.
What?

Pay attention.

Civil rights was based on an issue over which people have no choice ... the COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

I did not say all laws, or "public accommodation laws" only. Public accommodation is a limit on GOVERNMENT discrimination anyway. No government has a right to discriminate against people based on anything.

An individual or group does, as they are not limited like the government is.

And no, your sexual orientation is not at all comparable to sexual CHOICE. To do so is a disgrace to the whole civil rights movement. Using the civil rights movement to benefit your perversion is very dishonest and very offensive to all of us.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#522 Sep 12, 2013
davy wrote:
Tell me otto, when did you choose to be straight? How many dicks did you suck before you made your choice? You are consistently the dumbest poster on topix.
<quoted text>
Mmm, sounds like your jealous you missed out on meeting me before I went straight, eh?

Too bad, I would have rocked your world.:)

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#523 Sep 12, 2013
davy wrote:
Yeah that's why women in Afghanistan have it so good, because every human being on earth has rights. Like the right to have acid thrown in your face for attending school. Tell me Otto, have you looked up the Gettysburg address to see where Lincoln lived?
<quoted text>
Um, duh!

Rights transcend the opinions of society and governments, who may or may not recognize basic human rights.

Otherwise, they are not "rights."

Gosh, you are one ignorant troll.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#524 Sep 12, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you've merely blathered rationalizations that don't actually rise to the level of having a rational basis.
<quoted text>
O governmental interest would be required before equal protection could be denied. Do you mean to say that there is no rational basis for restrictions against same sex marriage?
<quoted text>
Which is to say, you have no valid argument against them. If you can't substantiate an argument against, you should merely be dismissive, right? What an imbecile.
<quoted text>
Once again, dismissal. I accept this as your tacit admission that you have no valid argument.
Idiots dismiss. Intelligent people with a valid point can offer an argument to the contrary.
All of my statements are based on rational arguments. Your mere disagreement is not an argument.:)

No, there absolutely is a rational reason to deny same-sex marriage. As already presented. Marriage is a special kind of regulated institution evolved over many thousands of years for the purpose of procreation, education of the next generation, and continuation of culture and civilization.

All of my arguments are valid. None of yours are, as proven time and time again.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#525 Sep 12, 2013
Willothewisp wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said. And he continues to ignore those facts. Gone to ask for proof that marriage is a right on the other threads. You post the proofs. He ignores them. It doesn't rise to his level of proof. And so on. And insists that it is all choice. And likes to throw it together with pedophilia, for whatever reason. I guess he must be homophobic. His past doesn't inoculate him from that.
Your above response to this:

The SCOTUS has already ruled marriage is a basic fundament right.
Btw, you need PERMISSION to buy a gun too, thus according to you that can't be a right either.

Makes no sense.

Of course you need PERMISSION to buy a gun. Are you saying the right to bear arms implies that we can steal guns to satisfy such a right?

I ignore nothing, Willow, and you know it. In fact, instead of admitting when you are wrong, you are lying more and more. I have noticed this over the years. You really need to examine your position.

Pedophilia is a sexual orientation, thus, a choice. They are always comparable, just as foot fetishes is an orientation.

They are all subject to restraint and control by the will. Thus, they are choices. Are you claiming that those attracted to children have ALWAYS acted on it? No, they haven't. Most know that it is wrong, and do not act on it. Some even learn to realign their orientation, and live completely normal lives.

Same for homosexuals and heterosexuals. Regardless of the tug of nature, all orientations are choices ... period.

If you don't like these facts, then present a viable argument to convince us otherwise.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#526 Sep 12, 2013
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither are great artists. So what? Normal just means what most people are.
<quoted text>
Actually, they do. Has nothing to do with slavery. If they shot one of those fundies in the head, then kidnapped his wife, too her half way around the world, raped her and then worked her to death, that would be slavery. Paying someone a grand for a cake isn't slavery.
<quoted text>
And equal protection under the law.
<quoted text>
IOW, those against gay marriage.
<quoted text>
There is no rational argument against gay marriage, it's a simple equal protection issue. So, I'm not wrong.
Normal are what most people are???

No.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nor...

Normal is normal, regardless of what the majority is.

Slavery means to serve involuntarily (involuntary servitude). If one is not allowed to refuse service, then that makes it involuntary. One either gives service freely, or not. You are actually attempted to justify slavery, shame on you.

There is every rational argument against gay marriage. It is an institution specifically regulated and designed for a procreative purpose, which is essential to society on an intellectual scale, and essential to science and biology on an evolutionary scale.

There is absolutely no good argument for allowing a total redefinition of marriage, when the mere act of living together and having sex is itself not marriage, and is not impeded.

There is ALSO a rational argument for forcing the government to do its due diligence and suppressing homosexual promotion.

http://americansfortruth.com/2013/09/11/94-to...

Homosexuality is a proven public health menace ... period.

Rights protect the individual from coercion of others. The right to life includes protection from life-threatening diseases. Sex has always come under the venue of public health, not rights. Sex itself is not a right, and never has been. No action that requires a second person's participation can be defined as a "right."

Thus, you argument fails on all counts.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#527 Sep 12, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
You absolutely have the power and free will to choice who you are attracted to, or not.
And, it changes over time for a multitude of reasons, from natural procreative urges to kinky desires. or the fashion of the age.
You have no right to be happy. You have the right to PURSUE it, but no assurance that you will ever get it.
Homosexuality is never a "natural" orientation. It is a choice. So is being heterosexual, though nature tends to impose a great deal of influence for the sake of evolution.
Stop lying to yourself, and liberate your mind. You have more power than you realize.
Really? So you could choose to be sexually attracted to a 500lb hairybacked man with a 1" penis?

I'm a gay and even I couldn't force myself to be sexually attracted to that!

Just as I can't force myself to be sexually attracted to women- any woman.

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