Same-Sex Marriage Trumps Religious Liberty in New Mexico

Earlier today, the Supreme Court of New Mexico ruled that the First Amendment does not protect a Christian photographer's ability to decline to take pictures of a same-sex commitment ceremony-even when doing so would violate the photographer's deeply held religious beliefs. Full Story
Rose Feratu

Hoboken, NJ

#254 Aug 30, 2013
Huszar wrote:
<quoted text>
Huszar confused. Some Americans worship court.
No they don't.

“Matthew 16:13 - 17”

Since: Mar 13

Vladville

#255 Aug 30, 2013
Rose Feratu wrote:
<quoted text>
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
In America we have SEPARATION of church and State. The State stays out of religion, and churches stay out of government. It's been that way since 1791.
http://www.wikihow.com/Investigate-the-Bible-...

Huszar confused still.

“Matthew 16:13 - 17”

Since: Mar 13

Vladville

#256 Aug 30, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for providing a conservative source that confirms what I have been saying. We all start out with fundamental rights, and those rights may only be restricted when a compelling governmental interest can be demonstrated. Again, from your source:
"These rights are thus inseparable -- or unalienable -- from each person individually and from the human race in general. They are a gift from the Creator and it is impossible for government to alter or nullify mankind’s divine inheritance. Except in extremely rare and limited circumstances, the unalienable rights of a particular individual, or the population at large, cannot be suspended, abrogated, or diminished by government. When government does take action against a particular right, it may only do so to the extent necessary to address a genuine concern for public safety.(See "Legitimate Exceptions" below.) Unalienable rights automatically belong to each individual at the moment his or her life begins and continue throughout that person’s time on earth."
The only mistake they make is substituting the word "God" and their beliefs about what "God" means to them, for the word "Creator".
Creator God same yes?

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#258 Aug 30, 2013
Huszar wrote:
<quoted text>
Huszar found sensible article. Others say not so. Propaganda. Lies.
Unalienable freedoms come from God? If no believe God how believe in unalienable freedoms.
Again, Creator, and "God" are not the same. "Creator" could be "Mother Nature", God, as understood by each different religious group, "the Big Bang", or whatever you choose to believe. Again, from your own source:

"These rights are thus inseparable -- or unalienable -- from each person individually and from the human race in general. They are a gift from the Creator and it is impossible for government to alter or nullify mankind’s divine inheritance."

Yet you want to use your personal beliefs about what you think God wants, to "nullify mankind’s divine inheritance." This is the very problem the founders sought to avoid by declaring that all are created equal, and have the same fundamental rights.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#259 Aug 30, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Again,
Not Yet Equal will never be equal.
Rose Feratu

Hoboken, NJ

#261 Aug 30, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Not Yet Equal will never be equal.
He always ready is, according to the federal government. I'm sure he couldn't care less about your delusions.

“Matthew 16:13 - 17”

Since: Mar 13

Vladville

#263 Aug 30, 2013
http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.asp

Conclusion
Consider the obvious problem of survival for individuals who allegedly possess a gay gene: individuals who have partners of the same sex are biologically unable to reproduce (without resorting to artificial means). Therefore, if an alleged “gay gene” did exist, the homosexual population eventually would disappear altogether. We now know that it is not scientifically accurate to refer to a “gay gene” as the causative agent in homosexuality. The available evidence clearly establishes that no such gene has been identified. Additionally, evidence exists which documents that homosexuals can change their sexual orientation. Future decisions regarding policies about, and/or treatment of, homosexuals should reflect this knowledge.

References
American Psychiatric Association (2000), Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders,(Washington D.C.: American Psychiatric Association), fourth edition, text revision.

Bailey, Michael J., and Richard C. Pillard (1991),“A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry, 48:1089-1096, December.

Bailey, Michael J. and D.S. Benishay (1993),“Familial Aggregation of Female Sexual Orientation,” American Journal of Psychiatry, 150[2]:272-277.

Baron M.(1993),“Genetics and Human Sexual Orientation [Editorial],” Biological Psychiatry, 33:759-761.

Billings, P. and J. Beckwith (1993), Technology Review, July, p. 60.

Bower, B.(1992),“Gene Influence Tied to Sexual Orientation,” Science News, 141[1]:6, January 4.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#264 Aug 30, 2013
Huszar wrote:
http://www.trueorigin.org/gayg ene01.asp
Conclusion
Consider the obvious problem of survival for individuals who allegedly possess a gay gene: individuals who have partners of the same sex are biologically unable to reproduce (without resorting to artificial means). Therefore, if an alleged “gay gene” did exist, the homosexual population eventually would disappear altogether. We now know that it is not scientifically accurate to refer to a “gay gene” as the causative agent in homosexuality. The available evidence clearly establishes that no such gene has been identified. Additionally, evidence exists which documents that homosexuals can change their sexual orientation. Future decisions regarding policies about, and/or treatment of, homosexuals should reflect this knowledge.
References
American Psychiatric Association (2000), Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders,(Washington D.C.: American Psychiatric Association), fourth edition, text revision.
Bailey, Michael J., and Richard C. Pillard (1991),“A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry, 48:1089-1096, December.
Bailey, Michael J. and D.S. Benishay (1993),“Familial Aggregation of Female Sexual Orientation,” American Journal of Psychiatry, 150[2]:272-277.
Baron M.(1993),“Genetics and Human Sexual Orientation [Editorial],” Biological Psychiatry, 33:759-761.
Billings, P. and J. Beckwith (1993), Technology Review, July, p. 60.
Bower, B.(1992),“Gene Influence Tied to Sexual Orientation,” Science News, 141[1]:6, January 4.
Again, opinion, misrepresenting science for political purposes.

We do not limit or restrict fundamental rights based on genetics, one way or the other. The guesses about how genes may or may not work, including their interactions, are still guesses, but again, irrelevant to legal rights.

And there is no credible evidence which suggests sexual orientation is open to change. While those claims have been made, they fail the test of reason and science. Even Spitzer now admits he was wrong, and sexual orientation is not subject to change.

Yet, that argument remains irrelevant. Remember, there is no religious belief gene, yet we protect fundamental rights based on choice of religious belief.

Supreme Court: Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 851 (1992):“These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#265 Aug 30, 2013
Rose Feratu wrote:
<quoted text>
He always ready is, according to the federal government. I'm sure he couldn't care less about your delusions.
With DADT gone, DOMA (3) gone, Prop 8 gone, and state prohibitions falling, I may soon have to consider changing my screen name.

“Matthew 16:13 - 17”

Since: Mar 13

Vladville

#266 Aug 30, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet, that argument remains irrelevant. Remember, there is no religious belief gene, yet we protect fundamental rights based on choice of religious belief.
This is sensible. Huszar agree on this. Freedom of conscience.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#267 Aug 30, 2013
Huszar wrote:
<quoted text>
This is sensible. Huszar agree on this. Freedom of conscience.
If we are free to choose to believe any religious belief or any non-religious belief we can imagine, and not be denied fundamental rights on the basis of that belief, surely the most important relationship in life a person can choose to enter, must be our own (mutual) choice, and not that of the government (without a compelling governmental interest in protecting citizens such as age, informed consent, close relative, or currently married.)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#268 Aug 30, 2013
Huszar wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.historytools.org/docs/Natures-God....
Having said all of this, I stand by my stated thesis:“Although he supported the moral teachings of Jesus, Jefferson believed in a creator similar to the God of deism. In the tradition of deism, Jefferson based his God on reason and rejected revealed religion.” In other words, Jefferson was deistic in his inclinations; he was not writing the Christian God into the Declaration of Independence, but he did firmly root his conception of natural rights in the existence of a creator-God.
Huszar would disagree. America history seems to not bear your opinion.
Look closely again at your own quote:

"Jefferson was deistic in his inclinations; he was not writing the Christian God into the Declaration of Independence."

More Jefferson: "I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find
in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth."

Here's Thomas Paine, demonstrating why they used the word "Creator", rather than "God":

"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
that book (the Bible)."

"Among the most detesable villains in history, you could not find one worse
than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to
massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not
dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book
(the Bible)."

"It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."

"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and
you will have sins in abundance."

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states
"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Christian religion."

And of course, we can't forget James Madison:
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the
exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote "Religion and government will
both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

So you see, your personal interpretation and understanding of "God", has no place in the law of a country dedicated to the proposition that ALL are equal under the law, and our rights come from our creator, not yours, and while your creator may tell you to discriminate and judge, ours says, in all things we are required by law to treat others as we would ourselves, under the law.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#269 Aug 30, 2013
More Thomas Jefferson:

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

and more Jefferson:

"But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." - Jefferson to H. Tompkinson (AKA Samuel Kercheval), July 12, 1816

Let Freedom Ring!
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#270 Aug 30, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
More Thomas Jefferson:
Jefferson owned hundreds of slaves and believed in one man one woman marriage.
You can try to twist the meaning of his words to benefit you but you'd just be fooling yourself.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#271 Aug 31, 2013
Huszar wrote:
What is equal protection?
If you don't understand this, it says more about your mental state, or lack thereof, than anything else.
Huszar wrote:
Men could get abortions in American law too?
a) Do you understand what an abortion is?
b) They have equal protection of the law to do so, in spite of the fact that it is irrelevant.
c) Do you enjoy making yourself out to look like a fool?
Huszar wrote:
Sometimes American language difficult understand.
It's not so difficult, if one isn't an idiot.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#272 Aug 31, 2013
Huszar wrote:
<quoted text>
Dismiss christians jews muslims? Billions can't be incorrect yes?
But the record gives us, " ... the Way is narrow and few find it ... ", so I guess, yes, billions CAN be incorrect, and are.

btw: Jews, neither Pharisee nor Karaite view "satan" in anything resembling the mainstream way.

Let's just take a look at the Talmidi Jews for a moment ...

&fe ature=related
Rose Feratu

Hoboken, NJ

#273 Aug 31, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
With DADT gone, DOMA (3) gone, Prop 8 gone, and state prohibitions falling, I may soon have to consider changing my screen name.
It's a good thing!
Rose Feratu

Hoboken, NJ

#274 Aug 31, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Jefferson owned hundreds of slaves and believed in one man one woman marriage.
You can try to twist the meaning of his words to benefit you but you'd just be fooling yourself.
Jefferson is dead. You have no idea what he thought about marriage. He CERTAINLY had no problem with fathering children by his slaves.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#275 Aug 31, 2013
Rose Feratu wrote:
Jefferson is dead. You have no idea what he thought about marriage. He CERTAINLY had no problem with fathering children by his slaves.
Wondering's childlike reasoning would not be quite so funny if it were not for the fact that Jefferson's affair was utterly illegal since Virginia had a statute against miscegenation.

Wondering is an idiot.
Rose Feratu

Hoboken, NJ

#276 Aug 31, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Wondering's childlike reasoning would not be quite so funny if it were not for the fact that Jefferson's affair was utterly illegal since Virginia had a statute against miscegenation.
Wondering is an idiot.
Calling him an idiot is being kind.

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