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Katy
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Thanks for mentioning the book Gert. I must read it . It has some amazing parallels to the situation of a family i know in Portofino!
I can't wait to read further!
I always find it interesting that the super rich and celebrities while bemoaning their lack of privacy in general,love to flock to resorts where they are herded like cattle. I find it interesting to watch this phenonemon if only for a short time. I would even go to Vegas {on a day trip] if I were ever close enough. I just like to see these strange things for myself.
I feel that men ,in particular, like to deceive themselves about feminine beauty. They like women to appear "natural" even when they know it is not the case.
The distaste for "contrived" beauty in women is a common theme in literature. I often think that Andrea picked up many of his ideas about women from books when he was young but unlike others did not change or modify them by experience as he matured.
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Katy
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Sweet Neglect Ben jonson {1572-1637]
Still to be neat, still to be drest,
As you were going to a feast:
Still to be powdered, still perfumed:
Lady , it is to be presumed.
Though art's hid causes are not found,
All is not sweet, allis not sound.
Give me a look,give me a face
That makes simlicity a grace:
Robes loosely flowing,hair as free:
Such sweet neglect more taketh me,
Than allth'adulteries ofart,
That strike mine eyes ,but not my heart.
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Katy
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Sorry meant "simplicity" of course.
You really must start reading the tabloids, Simone. I am very lucky. my husbsnd brings one home each saturday for the sports news.
i am thus able to keep up to speed with popular culture. Then i have a week to recover.
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Simone
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Katy wrote: You really must start reading the tabloids, Simone. I am very lucky. my husbsnd brings one home each saturday for the sports news.
i am thus able to keep up to speed with popular culture. Then i have a week to recover. I'm sure one of my neighbours takes the Daily Mail. Perhaps I will rifle through her recycling bin in search of some old copies. I'm sure she wouldn't mind, if she thought it to be in the excellent cause of converting me to the fold. The other takes the Telegraph, which I gather is little more than an extended eulogy to Boris Johnson these days. No surprises there.
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Simone
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With regard to that quote of Andrea's about beauty, I feel it's only fair to point out that he was commenting on his own laissez-faire attitude to his appearance. In the context, he wasn't speaking about the beauty of women. Nonetheless, it's a valid question, of course.
I think that many of his fans (I am among the number) would certainly agree with him as far as his own beauty is concerned. I dare say I am far from alone in finding the rather unkempt look rather appealing. I'm not at all sure he could carry it off as well now though.
I agree with you, Gert; It IS an odd statement for a blind person to make, at least with reference to visual beauty. But as Katy suggests, many of the ideas he has of visual standards probably arise from his reading. He seems often to make statements like this which seem odd for a blind person. Sorry to say I cannot really substantiate that assertion at this time of the morning. It's a wonder I'm awake at all, much less lucid.
Mr S pointed out that if neglected beauty means my having stubbly legs, he would rather go for the "too cared for" option. Ah well. It was worth a try.
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Gert
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Simone wrote: "Neglected beauty is more interesting than beauty that is too cared for." . He was referring to himself as "neglected beauty'? How about having a scruffy guy show up on a first date - or at a wedding - or on the job - and describe himself as a "neglected beauty". How would that go over. I do understand the appeal of scruffiness but only in theory, only in celebrities, only in situations where there is some sort of consensus that this does not represent slovenliness , uncleanliness, depression or poverty. Encountering it in every day life, my reactions are not favorable and never in my sons. I'm that obnoxious mother who is quick to say - or have said in the past - shave and change your shirt. You look like a bum or Andrea Bocelli without the money and the voice.
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Ciara
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Gert wrote: <quoted text>
I agree with this sentiment as well but think it is odd coming from a blind person. If you cannot see, what meaning does "neglected" or "cared for" have in terms of beauty?
For me, "cared for" means contrived in some way, trying to meet a standard - a standard inevitably set by some marketing force. Being trendy, after all, is simply allowing oneself to be manipulated.
Speaking of these types of resorts, a funny book comes to mind - Portofino by Frank Schaeffer. A baptist minister who lives somewhere in Europe - and whose mission in life is to convert Catholics - vacations every year in the seaside town of Portofino in the Italian Riviera. Seeing this uptight guy and his family interact with the bemused and tolerant Italians is really very amusing Sounds like a good book, thanks for mentioning it, Gert. I'll pick it up
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Ciara
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Katy wrote: Regarding the Royal Wedding there has also been much discussion of thefact that she was supposed to have given up her Catholic faith so he could retain his place as 11th in line to the throne!
I find this conclusion quite amusing for various reasons. I am surprised you haven't heard of it as he married a Canadian.
I wonder if we are in a position to judge Veronica's intelligence as compared to Kate's.
Veronica's father is a Professor of physics It does not always follow that the children will be intelligent but I think it does confer an advantage in some ways. Support and expectations for example. Kate comes from a wealthy family so the same thing applies. St Andrew's University is highly respected but is regarded incresingly as being for the rich .
I have to wonder if in both cases it is a question still of marriage being a goal in itself for young women. I wonder if there might have been more pressure to have a career if they had both been born male? Katy, we don't get much news in CA about Canada. I'm sure it will show up in a tabloid or magazine soon. I can understand why Kate doesn't want to pursue a career at this point, even though wouldn't count on anything at this point if I were here. When Sophie married Edward she had a thrieving career, but the royals quickly put a stop to that. I find her attractive, but she is rarely mentioned. I thought she looked a bit like Diana. Maybe Kate feels if she marries William this will happen to her. I also found it interesting that Kate's family achieved their wealth on the internet. They sold children's party decorations. I guess anything is possible, what luck. I think that you're probably right, if they had been born male the pressure to succeed in a career would have been paramount. I didn't know that Veronica's Dad was a physic's professor, interesting....
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Ciara
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Simone wrote: <quoted text>
Monaco, St. Tropez and Cannes are not Europe, or even particularly representative of Europe, for that matter. I don't much like them either (and I do know them; I tend to think of them as having lots of interesting history buried beneath the rubble of celebrity). There are plenty of places in Europe where people are not parading simply to be seen and to be seen to be wealthy. They are, for me at least, of far greater interest. Each of us has different interests, after all.
Thinking of the preened and "perfect" denizens of these resorts brings to mind a quote of Andrea's: "Neglected beauty is more interesting than beauty that is too cared for." I'm not sure that he would extend this maxim to other people (particularly women) but in essence, I am inclined to agree with the sentiment. I'd be interested to hear what others think, though.
I must add that, as usual, I missed the weekend papers, so have heard little about the wedding or about Kate Middleton's handmaiden status. There certainly seem to be some interesting parallels with Veronica, though. Katy, however am I to catch up on Royal news? Radio 4 is failing me horribly, I fear. If Monaco, St. Tropez & Cannes aren't Europe, then where are they? I don't think they necessarily portray all aspects of Europe. I agree that there are many fabulous places to explore. I don't make it a habit to hang out in those locations each time I visit, however I think that even though they are considered decadent in the eyes of many, the natural beauty is still evident. There is quite a lot of architectural beauty there as well as great locations to paint. I love the sand there, in many places on the Italian coast there are just pebbles or gravel. Pretty nasty stuff.
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Simone
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Gert wrote: <quoted text>
He was referring to himself as "neglected beauty'? How about having a scruffy guy show up on a first date - or at a wedding - or on the job - and describe himself as a "neglected beauty". How would that go over.
I do understand the appeal of scruffiness but only in theory, only in celebrities, only in situations where there is some sort of consensus that this does not represent slovenliness , uncleanliness, depression or poverty. Encountering it in every day life, my reactions are not favorable and never in my sons. I'm that obnoxious mother who is quick to say - or have said in the past - shave and change your shirt. You look like a bum or Andrea Bocelli without the money and the voice. Hmmm, I should explain the context, I suppose. The quote was taken when he was listed as one of People Magazine's most beautiful people in 1998 (I can't remember how many the list consisted of). So he was being prompted to comment on beauty (with particular reference to his own, given the context), rather than throwing narcissistic thoughts into a vacuum. I certainly think that to turn up at a wedding or a job interview unkempt would be regarded almost universally as a dreadful oversight, at best. However, I distinctly recall my first date with Mr S consisting of a drink and a concert after work one day. We were both social workers at the time. That should tell you all you need to know about the dress code (unless, in some bizarre twist, social workers in America are known for their sartorial elegance). I was more interested in his personality than in his grooming (which at that stage probably owed more to his friends' than to his own tastes, in any case). Aren't mothers of sons expected to be obnoxious in this regard? Didn't one of Bocelli's musical collaborators tell a story of Edi "nagging" him to change his clothes as they were heading out to dinner?
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Simone
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Ciara wrote: <quoted text>
If Monaco, St. Tropez & Cannes aren't Europe, then where are they? I don't think they necessarily portray all aspects of Europe. I agree that there are many fabulous places to explore. I don't make it a habit to hang out in those locations each time I visit, however I think that even though they are considered decadent in the eyes of many, the natural beauty is still evident. There is quite a lot of architectural beauty there as well as great locations to paint. I love the sand there, in many places on the Italian coast there are just pebbles or gravel. Pretty nasty stuff. I didn't mean to suggest they aren't IN Europe, just that they are by no means representative. Apologies if that was unclear. My old geography teacher would not, however, be in the least surprised were he to discover that I thought any of the above mentioned to be elsewhere than Europe. I was never known for my geographical expertise.
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Gert
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Simone wrote: However, I distinctly recall my first date with Mr S consisting of a drink and a concert after work one day. We were both social workers at the time. That should tell you all you need to know about the dress code (unless, in some bizarre twist, social workers in America are known for their sartorial elegance). The dress code of social workers? I know exactly what you mean because I am part of the social service industry. When you gather all of these folks together, they are quite similar - hardly a spiffy person in the group. However, I fit right in and there is a reason that I dress as I do - jackets and long skirts. I sit in a chair directly across from a person all day long. I will not sport short skirts and bare legs because I would feel self-conscious ever time I moved or cross my legs. i don't wear sleeveless tops because I don't find armpits attractive. I wear, upon occasion, sandals but not those that very much expose one's feet because very few feet are quite attractive and if someone is giving you advice do you wish to contemplate their toenails - hence the flowing, body concealing, comforting outfit favored by most people in the social service industry - often mistaken for people of the earth. I, on the other hand, am aghast at the attire of many who show up here, revealing rolls, nipples, scruffy knees and stubbly legs and armpits without a care. Men with a two day growth and a white undershirt - or a pony tail - or dirty or tight jeans - tells me this guy is not a player in society. In these circumstances, give me a well dressed guy anytime over the scruff - unless this is a famous person of sorts like Alberto Bocelli. Then the aura will redefine the pony tail.
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prova
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prova
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Katy
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I didn't really believe california was the natural place for canadian news to be broadcast Ciara!
I was thinking of the interest shown by many in the US in our royal family and thouht that a continental link would be of more than usual interest.
I found it interesting that the Bride's mother is/was a hairdresser , her father an electrician and an uncle a strip club owner. No, not the tabloids Simone, the sunday times!
I found these things interesting because of the apparent contradictions in the attitude of the bridegroom's mother Princess Anne.
She has twice married commoners but is obviously very conscious of her royal status. She refused to let her children have titles but often appears aloof. If we had to have another monarch i think she would have been my preference. Apparently she works hard is very tough and personally courageous but appears to be conscious of the anomalies in her position.
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Katy
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I had occasion to observe a group of architects in tuscany last year Gert. Alberto would definitely have stood out in that crowd.
He must have made a conscious decision to appear as he does. Perhaps some sort of statement?
I wonder if that was how he dressed and wore his hair as a student ? Perhaps as you seem to suggest it is a by-product of Andrea's fame . he perhaps felt that he had license to continue in that way for longer than he might otherwise.
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Gert
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prova wrote: prova Hmmmmmmm! Someone from Milano is speaking to us.
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Gert
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Katy wrote: I had occasion to observe a group of architects in tuscany last year Gert. Alberto would definitely have stood out in that crowd.
He must have made a conscious decision to appear as he does. Perhaps some sort of statement? Perhaps he is not an architect. Maybe he is some sort of builder/contractor and took a course or two in making blueprints. Perhaps he is as much an architect as Andrea is a lawyer. Where did he go to school and did he take a licensing exam? Just wondering.
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Katy
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I think he studied architecture in Florence.
Interesting that his father trained as a surveyor but appeared not to have practised so far as we know.
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Simone
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From The Times Relative Values column:
Alberto: "By the time we were doing our degrees we saw a lot less of each other. Andrea had gone off to Pisa to study law, and then I went off to Pisa and later Florence to study architecture."
He is listed as the designer and architect of some holiday homes near Pisa. He's pictured at the opening ceremony accompanied by Andrea.
Wasn't he involved in some way with the Teatro del Silenzio also?
He's probably just a very part-time architect, however, if he is also involved in managing his brother and producing wine.
Did their father train as a surveyor? That is interesting. Perhaps it's a family tradition to train as one thing and then do something quite different.
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Katy
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Yes he was involved with another architect in the Teatro project. I seem to remember that he designed some stables for Andrea's horses too.
his registered office is at La Sterza ,where the farm machinery business is also situated ,although I understand they no longer run the business.Not far from the cantina either!
Hmmm Is Pisa really the best place to train as an architect?How not to??? Just joking. I have been there1
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